What is up with all these new people!?

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    Slarg232
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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:01 am

    IGN is full of people who only rate games depending on how much bribe money they get.

    While I haven't seen many newbs, I've noticed my Sunbro gets summoned constantly now, as opposed to earlier.

    Thinking I need to make a Gravelord and do a speedrun up to NG+.....


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:12 am

    Slarg232 wrote:IGN is full of people who only rate games depending on how much bribe money they get.
     You sir get a 1+ for voicing my exact opinion.Any non-bribed review comes down to them being a bunch of nerd no life douchetools that only like CoD and MMOs.I know I sound really damn harsh but it is true.

    Back to Dark Souls noobs,I had a full giant guy try to kill me while I was BCing right after I joined.I healed and stomped his head in,only for him to literally pull the plug on his console as I killed him.I wouldn't be as annoyed about it if it weren't for the first part.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:19 pm

    Oh, I see. I get neg repped (by someone who wouldn't even come out and voice their reason) because I don't buy into the concept of dark souls being an exclusive club thats only good so long as its not popular?

    Fact is, its their money, their system, and their time, and they have every right to become part of the demographic the game was made for. Why they're doing it is irrelivant. So long as the series continues to be made for people looking for a dark, challenging, weighty, ect experience, how many people join, or want to join the demographic that enjoys it is of no concequence.

    I don't know who you are, or your reasons, but thats my guess (because its a common attitude) and to you (and anyone else for that matter) I'm calling out that reasoning as the "special snowflake" mentality of second class thought.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:37 pm

    Maybe it went on sale.

    I almost never see a movie or buy a game at release.

    @Forum: your post didn't indicate anything of the sort, it just said "who cares?".  Asking someone that put up a semi-lengthy post about a topic and asking them who cares... well obviously they do, even if you or I do not.  But if someone's talking about a topic and you say "Who cares?" it's usually taken negatively.  I'll uprate you.

    Also... I don't know why there's so much CoD hate on here.  I played that game quite a bit, and it's very good (hence the ridiculous sales).  It is just as skillful as this game (I'd say reaction speed much more so) but you don't have to learn/memorize as much. Straight up skill, I would vote for CoD over dark souls.  So not sure why the hate/looking down on it.  It's like people that like indie music over mainstream just because it's indie (even if it sucks).


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:54 pm

    "Who cares" should have been read as "why does it matter," but I'm clarifying now, just in case. It was intended to be taken negativly however, my implication was that there is no good reason for it to matter.

    There is reason to fear a change in the demographic a game is made for, but popularity is not the cause of that, greed is the cause of that.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:28 pm

    IV_Mark_VI wrote:Maybe it went on sale.

    I almost never see a movie or buy a game at release.

    @Forum: your post didn't indicate anything of the sort, it just said "who cares?".  Asking someone that put up a semi-lengthy post about a topic and asking them who cares... well obviously they do, even if you or I do not.  But if someone's talking about a topic and you say "Who cares?" it's usually taken negatively.  I'll uprate you.

    Also... I don't know why there's so much CoD hate on here.  I played that game quite a bit, and it's very good (hence the ridiculous sales).  It is just as skillful as this game (I'd say reaction speed much more so) but you don't have to learn/memorize as much. Straight up skill, I would vote for CoD over dark souls.  So not sure why the hate/looking down on it.  It's like people that like indie music over mainstream just because it's indie (even if it sucks).

    There are two main reasons as to why people hate Call of Duty:

    1) It's the same damn game over and over and over and over and over and over etc. and has continued to make money. So much money that it has negatively influenced the Shooter Genre since it's mainstreamification (The first two were top notch games, third was meh, then the fourth happened.) I'm fully willing to defend the "Negative comment", but it's way too long of a post for what I'm trying to do. Ask me at your own risk.

    2) "Lot's of people play it, so it sucks and is casul."


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:34 pm

    I dissagree that cod is skill based, I'd go reflex based, with a side of forthought (though I do enjoy it)

    As a comparison, I'd say halo (not sure about 4, haven't played it, but 1, 3 and reach for sure) is a skill based shooter, the primary differences being in the speed at which weapons kill and the skill required to use them properly. Simple battle field awareness (a skill all its own) is far more valuable in halo than reflexes, unless one is dealing with a rocket/grenade launcher.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by SirArchmage on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:42 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I dissagree that cod is skill based, I'd go reflex based, with a side of forthought (though I do enjoy it)

    As a comparison, I'd say halo (not sure about 4, haven't played it, but 1, 3 and reach for sure) is a skill based shooter, the primary differences being in the speed at which weapons kill and the skill required to use them properly.
    Something odd that I found is that, after playing Dark Souls for a significant time, I am better at Call of Duty and Halo.

    I believe it was the whole thing of that when I pvp in Dark Souls, I have the battle all planned out in my head the moment I see someone. And I only create better plans as it goes on. And applying that to Call of Duty or Halo, I can figure out what all the enemies are going to do and give myself the advantage in nearly every scenario.

    And also I agree with that. Reflex is the primary thing you need in CoD, while Halo........Well if anyone has been in a match with an Inheritor on Halo: Reach during the first year it was out knows how much someone can be just grossly more skillful then another person in Halo. I still shudder at the memories of Inheritors that slaughtered my whole team single-handedly.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:52 pm

    Archmage I noticed that same effect with halo. I think Dark souls PvP somehow made it easier to to do good in Halo. I think because of the strategy used in Dark Souls can be somewhat applied to other games. It makes me think of something I can't explain well.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:54 pm

    Battlefield analysis?


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Laveidem on Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:58 pm

    What's that? only 8th prestige level? Come back when your prestige 10. silly


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:24 pm

    The same thing over and over?  I know many people have played Dark Souls for over 1000 hours...

    Just saying.

    Also, the same thing over and over is exactly why some people play it.  They don't have to learn a new game, they can insert some new maps, new guns and play immediately.  They know the rules.  My friends that just play for about 1-2 hrs a week enjoy games like this just for this reason.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Slarg232 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:16 am

    IV_Mark_VI wrote:The same thing over and over?  I know many people have played Dark Souls for over 1000 hours...

    Just saying.

    Also, the same thing over and over is exactly why some people play it.  They don't have to learn a new game, they can insert some new maps, new guns and play immediately.  They know the rules.  My friends that just play for about 1-2 hrs a week enjoy games like this just for this reason.

    Playing the same thing over and over is totally different than BUYING the same thing over and over silly


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:33 am

    There are two main reasons as to why people hate Call of Duty:

    I think a lot of people, myself included, got tired of progressively worse netcode (IE better connection = fake ping added to you, sometimes 200ms+) to the point where the game was skill-equalized.  It should be absolutely impossible to sprint around a corner, aim down sights, and kill someone who was already aimed down sights and strafing that corner...but when the game gives the idiot running in enemy territory an extra kill window and a half, he wins.

    Lag is a serious issue in Dark Souls too, probably the single greatest issue in MP.  And yet, CoD somehow manages to be worse, even though the Modern Warfare/MW2 net code was better (less fake latency, very few matches/gunfights decided by lag).

    I used to play that game all the time, but my 2 friends and I all stopped for this exact reason, and it was mentioned on their forums a fair amount too.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by IIdoneus on Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:04 am

    Well I am not sure what to say. I do not hate CoD (though I myself am partial to Battlefield). Pretty much all shooters are the same thing again and again, I mean, how can they not be! Though, I do give the Halo series credit for mixing things up. 
    And as for IGN, it is just a bribe fest. Also, the people are not funny. Now Gamesradar, imo is a pretty solid site.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by StiffNipples on Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:43 am

    The reason I dislike CoD (and BF3 for the most part) is not the gameplay or the rehashing of games, but the general attitude of the players.  
     
    CoD, moreso than BF3, seems to be filled with the most arrogant, boastful, immature little loudmouths in gaming. There doesn't seem to be any sense of community, just people talking themselves up and sh*ttalking others. The hubris is asstounding and a little disgusting tbh.

    They also seem to have the highest percentage of sore losers and winners in any game I've played, to the point where I go the impression that the average age of the players must be around 10-15, and the general attitude is spoilt and entitled.

    BF3 I found wasn't as bad as it seemed to have more mature gamers that called out that sort of behaviour (at least on the servers I played anyway).

    You can definitely tell the kids that have come from over from CoD on the PC version, there is a markedly different attitude and playstyle to those that I played against on PS3 back before the DLC.


    The Halo series I found to be the best though (or at least for me it was the most enjoyable and balanced), Bungie really knew what they were doing when it came that game (mostly 3 and ODST and Reach).

    Agreed that IGN is far too... sponsored.
    I prefer Giantbomb.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by SirArchmage on Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:08 am

    I go to TotalBisquit on youtube for game reviews. Very honest and I love his commentary. I remember that he was offered money to talk good about a game(forgot which) and during the review of the game explained how they tried to pay him to say good things about it.

    Also, StiffNipples, that is why the "mute" button was made. I have plenty of decent friends from CoD by doing this simple tactic. Be nice, if someone insults me, mute. Fairly simple.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:01 am

    TheMeInTeamI think a lot of people, myself included, got tired of progressively worse netcode (IE better connection = fake ping added to you, sometimes 200ms+) to the point where the game was skill-equalized. wrote:
    Lag is a serious issue in Dark Souls too, probably the single greatest issue in MP.
    What are you trying to say with "fake ping added"?  A ping is x amount of data sent, and then they return that same x amount of data.  I could 'ping' your computer for a gig of data and you'd ping me back that same amount.  It's a specific network test... are you just saying extra latency gets added to you, so that your upstream is delayed?


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:24 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I dissagree that cod is skill based, I'd go reflex based, with a side of forthought (though I do enjoy it)

    As a comparison, I'd say halo (not sure about 4, haven't played it, but 1, 3 and reach for sure) is a skill based shooter, the primary differences being in the speed at which weapons kill and the skill required to use them properly. Simple battle field awareness (a skill all its own) is far more valuable in halo than reflexes, unless one is dealing with a rocket/grenade launcher.
    Fully agree to this and +1.
    Could'nt have said it better.

    Hate to tell you though, but Halo 4 moved towards the CoD mainstream. I hear it's popular, but from what I saw, it's pretty far from Halo 1-3 in terms of multiplayer.
    I'm saying 1-3, cos I didn't play online multiplayer in ODST and Reach.

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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:57 am

    For the thing with Halo 4: Play Dark Souls and somehow you can be a vet in Halo 4 and it is not skill than reflex.


    I just found something that has caught my interest with a new toon at 10 when I co-op with another phantom. Just want to check if to see if some of these guys are getting max items from low level toons of other people.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Walter_White on Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:24 am

    Oh derailed to CoD bashing. I got an opinion big grin

    Let me explain short:
    10 years ago Q3A, Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was that, what Demons and Dark Souls is now for me. So i saw the CoD hype starting and played the first 3 or 4 games. The SP was great in the first versions, but was a bit boring after a while. The multiplayer i never liked.
    In Q3A i learned bunny hopping and trick jumps, and it works in RtCW and W:ET cause they use the same engine (idtech3). All three games are very skillfull, because the movement the aiming and the reaction has to be trained a long time, to be good in the games. You also have to know the maps like the back of your hand. And with RtCW and even more with W:ET teamplay is the way to success. I played both for some seasons in the ESL in a team of 6 player.

    CoD took the idtech3 and destroyed all good features of the engine, making a completly boring multiplayer. You only have to have good reactions. The hitboxes are ridiculous big, so aiming is not the problem and it's slow like hell, so even the reaction they rely on is boring for a Q3A player.
    It's just brain off and shoot on everything, because in the default they all have friendly fire off, something no RtCW or W:ET player would play - damn if u are so drunk, that u can't see if the guy before u is friend or foe go and play CoD.

    And for the last words some console bashing:
    Never asked why no cross play between consoles and PC? MS tested it in one egoshooter, and it was devasting for the consoles. Pros on a console where handed their arses by real casuls on PC, simply because the PC has a mouse and a keyboard. The mouse is the trick for aiming and for bunny hopping the keyboard - that could never be done with a controller. I once played a shooter on console and would never again try that. The only controller i destroyed was while trying that....even in the Souls games i never destroyed a controller, because in the Souls games the controller is not the problem, in fact a controller works better in the Souls games.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:04 am

    The way CoD is now, PC advantage for players over console is moot.  What good is a 40ms faster aiming time when you "get compensated" 250 ms ping?  You can literally fire 6-7 shots, all on target, and get 1 hitmarker before dying instantly.  In the kill cam you fired 1 shot.  That's not an anomaly; it's every other game in CoD or close enough.

    If you're talking something like doom, quake, unreal tournament, or any other game with pickups and strong movement skill (even halo/gears would work in this example), then PC wins.  In CoD, I don't think a guy on the PC would consistently kill a guy on the console, especially if the console guy pre-aims.  If both people start off on target, connection wins.  With the enormous CoD hit boxes, it's trivial to start off on target.  You can get an advantage with pre-aim or a better weapon for the situation, but all too often it's just a matter of whose shots actually count.

    That's true in Dark Souls to a lesser extent also, and it's why I'm excited for servers.  Getting backstabbed by someone who is literally in front of me isn't acceptable, especially not on cable internet (it shouldn't happen even on DSL).  Having someone hit an area a full roll away (when I didn't even roll) and have it register damage blows.  Yes, they're getting client side detection and that's great and all, but only when you don't have effective latency at close to half a second.  If From can handle servers even remotely competently, we'll see very little of that...but we should have only seen that on P2P with connections to people on dial-up or over very long distances.


    What are you trying to say with "fake ping added"?  A ping is x amount of data sent, and then they return that same x amount of data.  I could 'ping' your computer for a gig of data and you'd ping me back that same amount.  It's a specific network test... are you just saying extra latency gets added to you, so that your upstream is delayed?

    What I mean is that the Call of Duty series, starting with Black Ops 1 and continuing until now, will create extra delay.  

    Say you have a 75ms connection to the host, and I have a 150ms connection to the host.  To oversimply, what the game will *attempt* to do is make it so that what you see is a 150ms ping to the host rather than a 75ms ping.  The host will also get a visual delay.  I don't know what else to call this other than "fake ping"; it's essentially making the game's engine situationally add some latency.

    As I'm sure you're aware, however, ping is not static.  The code for handling this "compensation" is quite poor at handling dynamic changes, so within the same game you could wind up pre-aiming someone and having your first 4 shots kill them with all 4 counting, only to find 2 minutes later that you can fire 6 shots with them clearly in your reticule and have it count only 1 before you die.  I'm not sure if Dark Souls does this or not, but it's trash stuff and it effectively ruined what small amount of skill still existed in MP CoD, which admittedly wasn't much.

    As for how Dark Souls makes one better at, say, Halo 4:

    Twitch reaction and aim translate into all games, but most deaths in Halo 4 are from poor judgment.  Along with Gears of War series, Halo is truly a team game.  Give 2 above-average people a DMR in the open field and they could kill a solo guy with an aimbot every time.  Until you get to pretty high levels of ability in Halo, most of winning or losing is judgment on when to engage + whether you and teammates can kill the guys nearby.  Good judgment = kills, bad judgment = walk into grenades and get redlined/finished before you can react.  I don't care how fast your reactions are if you walk out of position and get your shields stripped; you're dead.  Dark Souls punishes mistakes in judgment, consistently.  Halo does also, but for bad players in Halo they really don't understand the core reason they're sucking as judgment and think they can simply "react" and "aim" their way to great scores.

    You absolutely need aim and reaction speed, don't get me wrong, but by FAR the vast majority of deaths and team victories/losses in a game like Halo or Gears 3 come from movement/positional/engagement choices.  Well, Halo is more of a grenadier than a shooter anyway sometimes :p.


    Last edited by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Dibsville on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:07 am

    Just going to put this out here just because you guys are on the topic of CoD:

    My friend came over a few days ago, he brought CoD: Blacks Ops 2 with him.
    Since I only got my PS3 last Christmas, I didn't know how to work it very well just yet.

    So I popped in the game, went into multiplayer, and first thing I had to do was mute everyone in the lobby due to harsh language and nerd rage.

    And I had to do this for every single lobby.

    After about an hour, I said "*** it", (While in the presence of my mother, who proceeded to slap me), and I muted the TV and blared some music from my computer.

    I effectively ruined my KDR because I couldn't hear anything, but it was worth it.

    Moral of the story: Know how to make it so you can't hear other people, only the game. Especially in CoD.

    >Reasons I don't want CoD players in Dark Souls.


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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:13 am

    MeInTeam, you keep using ping wrong.  Ping's a tool, and you can set all kinds of parameters for it, such as size.  Can you explain it without using ping?  You're usually so succinct in your postings, I'm disappointed.

    It's also reliant on another computer (server?  host machine?) sending back a reply.  I occasionally play CoD so if you can explain this better I can hopefully fix it on my end.  I always seem to have better connections than most and it really helps me out (I'm usually host).


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    Age : 34
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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:17 am

    MeInTeam, you keep using ping wrong.  Ping's a tool, and you can set all kinds of parameters for it, such as size.  Can you explain it without using ping?  You're usually so succinct in your postings, I'm disappointed.



    It's not real ping times.  It's "fake latency", the game is trying to compensate players with *apparent* latency to make things more "fair".  The problem is that it doesn't do a very good job in practice.  When I get home I'll try to find something that explains it in more technical detail.

    But basically, your real ping is just what you say it is.  The game is essentially copying what more latency (IE higher ping times) would look like, hence my calling it "fake".

    I don't know how the game calculates host and host advantage definitely varies from game to game (it was huge in MW2, and sometimes a disadvantage in MW3 depending on everyone else).  I think the issue is what kind of algoirthms are being used.  Are there break points for example?  I'm not sure.

     
    Moral of the story: Know how to make it so you can't hear other people, only the game. Especially in CoD.



    Just use party chat with friends only or simply mute everyone in the lobby that you can hear, it doesn't take long (about five seconds or so).

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    Re: What is up with all these new people!?

    Post by Sponsored content


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