Sony banning

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    skarekrow13
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:59 pm

    Sorry, there's actually kind of a split in the conversation here.  If you have the DLC then it's not "theft" of the spells.  I apologize as I should have clarified that this would be a civil harm with the gamemaker being the "victim."  In that instance, they would have to pursue legal action and, as Walter correctly pointed out....it's highly unlikely that From is coming to get you to recoup the 2 or 3 cents they might make back on it.  I was merely discussing the legality for a more philosophical approach to the use of the MM.

    If dooshka was banned for the MM my guess is that someone wrote a convincing complaint to Sony about him.  I'm not going to claim I've actually read and memorized the EULA from Sony so this is all hypothetical on my end.  If someone has read it, feel free to call me out on it too.  

    Any time you need to be signed in to your PSN to use something (like Dark Souls online play) you're under the Sony EULA.  There's a lot of rules in there but they're all about "fair play" and "fair use" (generally an EULA is, again I don't have Sony's memorized).  So regarding the MM, From decided that the save backup feature would be locked. By using the MM, you're bypassing this game restriction.  Well, the original person did at least. Using it is at the very least a promotion of someone else's likely breach.  It's very well possible that Sony considers this an "unfair play" or "unsafe use."  Without the EULA in front of me I'd be hard pressed to say what clause they would cite but there could be something ambiguous enough to justify their ban.  In my opinion it's kind of a reach but without knowing the EULA by heart who knows what's in their terms that they're using as a basis for this ban.  Another option is that they somehow discovered or inferred that dooshka had trophies he didn't earn.  Again, it's a nitpicky thing but it's possible and would be proof of improper usage.   And the MM does result in unearned trophies.  

    My best guess is that somewhere in the EULA there's a clause that's (paraphrasing here) something like "don't modify things."  They're likely ambiguous and meant to capture a large variety of actions so that Sony can do something if there's a problem.  Usually nothing is done however.  While the MM isn't a hardware modification and only a mirror of someone else's modification of the coding they could still likely justify a ban under an ambiguous "don't modify" clause.  I am still imagining that someone wrote a pretty convincing complaint to them though as they would need to check into the account a little before banning.

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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by crbngville2 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:04 pm

    Thanks Skare,

    That clears things up for me. I'm not a lawyer, and the whole IP thing escapes me sometimes.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Walter_White on Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:07 pm

    the stones where flying, before he even could say "jehova"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI

    and now he fears to admit, that it wasn't pure using of unchanged MM....i assume

    And still, if they can check the savegame and only start to ban for license fraud....i would be really mad, like i hope most of the other player. We are calling for effective cheat protection on all platforms and they put their efford only to get some who hasn't purchased for the dlc...PR desaster if they really did that


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:12 pm

    And still, if they can check the savegame and only start to ban for license fraud....i would be really mad, like i hope most of the other player. We are calling for effective cheat protection on all platforms and they put their efford only to get some who hasn't purchased for the dlc...PR desaster if they really did that

    It's implausible that they would manually check anything; the number of users is enormous and across games that's even more so.

    Most likely, they would use the information in a database and check some information against other information, banning anything that should be impossible.

    IMO if either console implements an effective version of that in the next gen and pairs it with some sort of server-cheat detection they'd have an enormous competitive advantage since cheating/hacking/etc are extremely annoying long-standing problems.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by dooshka on Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:25 pm

    They probably do random checks, just was not my day
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:03 pm

    No offence but that is actually great news.Now you know Sony do ban people for cheating.As an Xbox player,I'm very jealous.I'm sure a lot of us would like to see a cheater free Dark Souls.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:11 pm

    cheers

    I'm sad for you dooshka.

    But cheers
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Derpwraith on Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:15 pm

    RANT wrote:@dibs really? You're practically stealing the dlc and its not illegal? I wonder how from feels about that, or even namco.
    Mega Mule gives you spells and equipment from the Artorias of The Abyss add-on. But if you haven't purchased it, you still can't have access to Oolacile, So it's not entirely, "stealing". Don't treat the add-on as a simple bundle of extra equipment and spells. If having stuff from the add-on is considered stealing, then why would they allow players to trade equipment and weapons from the add-on without any restrictions? Almost every game never lets you use any bit of downloadable content without purchasing it, Dark Souls is otherwise.

    Though, I may be wrong.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Demon Slayer on Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:28 pm

    i think that people should what they want. So if they want to MM i think theres no problem with it, they payed their money they sould do whatever the *** they want.

    As Dibs said MM is not hacking/cheating.

    Is just someones savedata.

    Admit it guys do you spent hours farming for souls/weps and such? 

    If you do congrats, you need BIG nuts to sent valuable time when you can just ue the MM and get everything in just a few mins and try out ay build you always wanted to try out.

    I admit i have MM several times and  dont find anything wrong with i.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:33 pm

    They probably do random checks, just was not my day

    Random checks are very improbable as they would be quite costly compared to pretty much any remotely competent (or even incompetent) machine tracking system.  If you really want to keep a game clean and catch cheaters, you need a good system for it.  It would also be useful to occasionally alter its detection capabilities based on community feedback w/o leaking it, to "surprise" cheaters who are particularly skillful in bypassing checks.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by PaPaSmVrf on Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:02 am

    *munch munch* Anyone want some popcorn? No? OK more for me! *munch munch*


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by StiffNipples on Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:26 am

    Great, now if only GFWL would start doing it, I swear I could email them a youtube vid of proof of people hacking and they'd do jack sh*t about it.


    Actually I might do that, I have several.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Halicarnassis on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:56 am

    Demon Slayer wrote:
    Admit it guys do you spent hours farming for souls/weps and such? 

    If you do congrats, you need BIG nuts to sent valuable time when you can just ue the MM and get everything in just a few mins and try out ay build you always wanted to try out.

    I've spend countless hours farming on EVERY toon I have and am proud of it.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:26 am

    StiffNipples wrote:Great, now if only GFWL would start doing it, I swear I could email them a youtube vid of proof of people hacking and they'd do jack sh*t about it.


    Actually I might do that, I have several.

    There is a youtuber who plays older call of duty games, captures footage of player hacking including audio where they admit they're hacking, and mails it to Microsoft.  His subs will often report the GTs for cheating also.

    I believe all but 1 person he did this to still had their accounts months later, and that 1 person was a little kid.  The guy trolled the kid's mom and she took away his account because he actually was hacking lol ^_^.

    However, the youtuber himself has received bans for telling people he's with "trollarch" (amusing play on treyarch, and even more amusing that people don't immediately realize what he's doing) and is trying to catch hackers and set them on the right path.  So basically, garbage microsoft will ignore known, proven cheaters who violate terms of service and tamper with their consoles, but will drop the banhammer on someone for messing with people who do it (even without foul language or anything that explicitly violates terms of service, as once he got banned the first time he went out of his way to make sure he didn't).

    That's a complete disgrace, and even further evidence of Sony pulling away as not only making a superior console, but also being a superior company.  My odds of getting XBONE drop more and more, and they were low to begine with.

    If MS wants to ban him and has a real reason, fine.  He's no angel.  BUT, when they ignore video footage and mass reports on proven hackers and let hackers run rampant in virtually every online game you see...well I have a problem with that.

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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by drdrack on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:44 am

    Halicarnassis wrote:
    Demon Slayer wrote:
    Admit it guys do you spent hours farming for souls/weps and such? 

    If you do congrats, you need BIG nuts to sent valuable time when you can just ue the MM and get everything in just a few mins and try out ay build you always wanted to try out.

    I've spend countless hours farming on EVERY toon I have and am proud of it.
    I, for one, enjoys farming

    (as long it's not too much)

    OT: you either got caught, or you got wrongfully accused. If it's the latter, this doesn't just happen in dark souls tbh
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by StiffNipples on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:27 am

    TheMeInTeam wrote:
    That's a complete disgrace, and even further evidence of Sony pulling away as not only making a superior console, but also being a superior company.  My odds of getting XBONE drop more and more, and they were low to begine with.

    If MS wants to ban him and has a real reason, fine.  He's no angel.  BUT, when they ignore video footage and mass reports on proven hackers and let hackers run rampant in virtually every online game you see...well I have a problem with that.


    Yeah that is really pathetic of them. Honestly when you have hard evidence and do nothing it's f**king abysmal business practice, and honestly is just another reason for me never to go back to Xbox or purchase another GFWL game.

    I understand that they would get about 1million people accusing others of cheating per week just because they got beaten (hell I've played BC2/BF3 and seen the chat log lol), but when you get video evidence and do nothing, it's like f**k you too MS.



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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:12 pm

    I've heard of giftbros on xbox giving people +15 arrows and weird stuff like that.

    I've never seen a hacker on psn, but it makes you wonder about picking up certain items from people.

    If someone "goes the extra mile" in an area for me, doesn't just race to the boss, and pays attention to what I'm trying to do, I leave them extra humanities or even chunks before I go through the fog door.

    I'd hate it if I had to be leery of what people left me as gifts because of something like this.
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Sentiel on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:28 pm

    Halicarnassis wrote:
    Demon Slayer wrote:
    Admit it guys do you spent hours farming for souls/weps and such? 

    If you do congrats, you need BIG nuts to sent valuable time when you can just ue the MM and get everything in just a few mins and try out ay build you always wanted to try out.

    I've spend countless hours farming on EVERY toon I have and am proud of it.
    Same here.
    Every weapon in every upgrade path. Every armor. All of this upgraded to max, or +4/+14, cos of Slab shortage.
    Most farmed, something traded, but all legit. Only on one character though, but it was main.

    Then I lost my save file to file corruption.
    In such cases I can understand using a hacked save file to get all the stuff back. But I still didn't do it and instead went and asked all the people here and my friends for help and they willingly helped me to regain my priced collection back.
    Now I got the data backed up on PS+ and have nothing to worry about. ^^

    Animaaal, when I returned to DkS. I met three hackers in my first three days. I still keep a bilance of 1 hacker per 1 PvP day. On PS3. By that I mean guys with ridiculously powerfull Crystal Weapons. I met a total of 6 of those. Met one guy with Karmic Justice Explosion spell and one guy who had several thousands of HP. All of that in two weeks time. Also, all of it in Burg, except for one guy with Crystal Weapon in Moonpit, who I think was gifting the hacked things to a host I invaded. Should've picked one and see...

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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by twigsterxd on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:28 pm

    TBH I'm surprised Sony even cared. Reason I say this is because people have been hacking/cheating for years. Take the original ps1 or the ps2, gameshark is a separate company that makes cheat engines and sells them at stores. According to gameshark, they are not endorsed by playstation. So imo, gameshark is no different. Some ps2's could go online, (not sure bout games), but no one using a gameshark ever got banned. If the OP was banned for using MM, there has to be more to it.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by StiffNipples on Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:11 pm

    He probably swore in their forums. Only thing I've ever heard anyone getting banned for tbh. Except for a few twitch guys who hacked and had about 100+ people report them at once to GFWL/MS.

    Not sure about Sony, but with EA/MS the only reliable way to get banned is to drop and F-bomb in their forums.

    Which is retarded.


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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by dooshka on Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:40 pm

    There was no swearing pal, not a word, just not my day
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by ublug on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:20 am

    The only reason I can think of for the mm to be ban worthy is if you use it to play the dlc without buying it.
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:37 am

    I've never seen a hacker on psn, but it makes you wonder about picking up certain items from people.

    My understanding (and my sister/brother in law have Souls on Ps3) is that hackers are the most rare there by far (PC has most, then Xbox, then Ps3).  However, I've seen evidence of Ps3 hackers on YouTube; guys who can get hit for 60k+ and live, get backstabbed for ~200 from a DMB +15 falchion, and pop dozens of divine blessings/mushrooms.

    There actually ARE lag-switchers in this game, and that can be done easily on any console also (it doesn't require direct console tampering and instead tampers with the network).  One of the popular souls youtubers has a video showing what it looks like, I forget which one but I'd imagine it's easy to find.  IIRC it's titled "How to win at Dark Souls" as a form of irony...the warping is quite crazy.

    I don't know what people get out of cheating.  At that point, you're not even playing the game anymore...so what exactly is one winning?  It feels good to watch colors on a screen?  I guess the small-minded could enjoy the troll value of winning by cheating, but I pity the people who can stay entertained by that more than a few moments.
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    Re: Sony banning

    Post by Derpwraith on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:13 pm

    ublug wrote:The only reason I can think of for the mm to be ban worthy is if you use it to play the dlc without buying it.
    Dark Souls Mega Mule comes with all of the equipment and spells from the Artorias of The Abyss add-on, but does not come with the broken pendant. The broken pendant is required to access the DLC areas of the game, and it will only appear once the add-on is installed.


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