How to Even the Odds

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    Do you Gank People?

    [ 3 ]
    6% [6%] 
    [ 10 ]
    19% [19%] 
    [ 1 ]
    2% [2%] 
    [ 5 ]
    10% [10%] 
    [ 33 ]
    63% [63%] 

    Total Votes: 52
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    Tolvo
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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:34 pm

    Yeah I've seen how much damage such builds can do Sent, trust me whenever I see a Talisman out and Power Within, I generally assume it is a WotG nuke build and I get ready to roll, or block dead angles.

    Skare in regards to ganking I'm only really considering the use of other players since in general players are far more powerful and intelligent when compared to mobs.  However I will be going over using mobs under environment, I was going to put them down for each section.  So, under Painted World mentioning places to fight and mobs to use, etc.

    Ildon actually that would put Bias in the poll which I don't want to have.  Too often is there bias in the polls so they end up useless, I wanted one for the sake of getting an understanding of who does what, and how often.  I don't have an agenda I just want to know the numbers.
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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by CarverUpqik on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:40 pm

    see me and my buddies gank but when we do it we do it for fun not to be a prick and we usually do something stupid like a spartan theme or something (surprisingly effective) but none the less meant to be fun


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    skarekrow13
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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:43 pm

    Lol.  Fair enough Tolvo.  Those definitions make sense.  I guess I just feel like a ganker when I get the host solo and surround him with trees.

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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by Walter_White on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:01 pm

    when i startet with pvp i wanted to get the ring from alvina, but always lost against everybody. Most of them where also with summons, so hard to achieve a host kill for a rookie.
    So i started to wait for other forest defender, to team up with him and get those '#§%* three kills.

    Now i send every phantom home, who ganks an invader and bc out from ganker and manage to kill the host of a ganker group feels good laughing


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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by Paragon on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:11 pm

    I see a lot of general strategies for fighting gankers, which is good. But to break the mold I figured I'd post some strategies for fighting in specific areas.

    1. In Dark Anor Londo, if you are a strength build or a tank or just generally moving slower but hitting harder than the host and his phantoms, it is a good idea to fight on the rotating spiral staircase. Not every player knows that crits cant be done on moving platforms, so while the gankers are trying to back stab you; just laugh your *** off as you slaughter them for trying.

    2. If you are hosting in Dark Anor Londo, you cannot be invaded while inside the O&S boss room. One thing to do if you dont wanna get ganked and you dont wanna gank others is to wait outside the boss room to get invaded then once you get invaded stay inside the boss room.

    3. Same strategy as above except done in the Forest. As everybody already knows, you can pvp inside Sif's boss room as long as you dont step in front of Sif's sword. As long as you stay inside Sif's boss room you cannot be invaded.


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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by Jansports on Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:02 pm

    http://mmdks.com/2rzx

    The 120 Faith build I use that has just about every great anti-gank tool available to Faith. In a real pinch it's fully capable of jamming on RTSR and using the suicide KJ strat. But it doesn't have to resort to that too often, being able to shrug off the magic spamming gankers with GMB/VoS. And having the flip with 56 poise makes you particularly obnoxious to pin down. A WoG into BS combo from the build easily pushes 1300-1400 damage depending on the defenses your hitting, making most wake up attack options lethal at that point.

    A very basic but effective tactic I use is to just run away and get them to chase, then at some point simply turn around flip into them and dead angle a WoG. If you catch any of them go for the follow up tickstab to keep your invincability going. When they see the damage they'll think twice about chasing you haphazzardly, letting you run away without being pressured too much, giving you a shot at applying a buff like VoS or GMB before returning to the foray.

    KJs damage is actually based on your right hand weapons Magic Damage or Magic Adjust Value. Making Divine path weapons great options for getting maximum results.
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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by Shakie666 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:25 pm

    I do gank occasionally, but I don't do it for soul farming or anything. I find being with someone else is a lot less stressful than invading, and you also don't have to worry about dying since you have less to lose. Both of those reasons allow me to use builds I wouldn't use in regular pvp. Its more fun that being forced to use the same old 'spam R1/dark magic' in regular pvp.
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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:17 pm

    I had to select the "yes, often" option.  I'm an avid catbro.  The meta there is gank or be ganked (and I get ganked 90% of the time).  But, outside the Forest, my answer is "no".


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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:48 am

    I don't gank at all for 2 reasons:

    1.  It is slower to find people than invading...possibly even true with dried finger.
    2.  It is more fun for me to try to win with a disadvantage than it is with an advantage.

    I don't mind gankers...in fact that kind of play is a rational conclusion given the rules.  I think allowing it to happen is good for the game in 2 ways:

    1.  It makes PvP in some capacity accessible to people who would otherwise struggle to find enjoyment in it.
    2.  In doing so, it reduces the wait time for finding PvP fights.
    3.  It is a very different kind of fight than a duel and thus adds some variety in PvP.

    I could do without pure spawn campers, and as a result forest gankers bother me the least since while they will try, it's hard to be in 3 places.

    The other thing about ganks is that the areas it's done are pretty common: Kiln, Big Forest, Township, Burg.  You can get gankers anywhere, but these are most common.  I wish gankers wouldn't summon red soapstone invaders, but you can't have everything I guess lol.  When I'm using a red eye orb?  Oh man, anything goes.  That's how the game was designed, and the uncertainty of what you're invading into is part of the fun and challenge of being an invader.

    I think the game would actually be more dull if we didn't have gankers, even though I dislike being a ganker myself.  It can be fun to fight them, and rewarding to win.  It's kind of like a difficulty setting in MP lol.

    Edit:

    When I was a catbro I'd pile on the host...on the rare occasion that it was actually 2v1 in invader's favor.  Generally, however, forest hunting is a 1v1 or 1v2 as invader.  I will often hide and make it a 2v2; that's some of the most interesting fighting in all of dark souls and really tests awareness.  I guess technically I did gank somewhat, though I've MOSTLY been a darkwraith the past few months.
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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by VaDoom on Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:06 pm

    Oolacile Township (+Chasm of The Abyss) strategy

    First, I don't hate gankers. People must play as they want as long as they don't hack.
    What I hate are hypochrites.
    The ones that will send you hate mails when they loose their 3v1 (Or if they win after a 30minutes game, calling you a looser)
    The ones that will insult you because I refuse to take the elevator when I know 3 SL500+ are waiting at the top with TWOP and firestorms in full giant ninjas.
    The other one are totally fine (Even if they use the same strats)

    Oolacile Township is my favorite place to fight gankers (as an invader):
    - Huge area connecting to Chasm of the Abyss
    - A lot of nasty mobs
    - A lot of gank squads (I'm primarily looking for duels, so if I run into a lonely host that's fine. )

    Here is my strategy :
    1) Never ever invade at the bonefire, most gankers are waiting there
    Instead, invade just at the bottom of the elevator (don't forget to send it back for after your next death (yeah there will be a next)).

    (After you died) From the bonefire, you can run directly to the elevator without being caught by the mobs (even if you're gravelorded, but beware of running the closest possible to the left for the BP dark mage to be out of reach). If you sent the elevator back before you died, mission accomplished. Once you're at the bottom, send the elevator back, recover and invade again. It should take something like 15-20s from the bonefire to using your orb again.
    If you forgot to send the elevator back, you can still call it, tank the aggroed mobs and take it... It's just more risky

    2) You will now spawn beside the 2 dark mages just before the large room with the chained prisoner.
    If the mobs here are alive, you're safe and may procede to step 3)

    If they are not, you might be in a quester's world. If it's the case, the host/team must be pretty close because Chasm of the Abyss is near, he/they can't be to far in it or you wouldn't have been able to invade in this area.
    - If he/they are near, he/they most likely are just behind you when you spawn.
    - If they are not explicitely near, check the elevator to Chasm of the Abyss First. If it's up, they most likely are still in the township and they most likely are gankers too.
    Check Chasm of the Abyss first to see If there are still mobs here.
    Check the first elevator of the level them. And check the large room (left when you come from the bottom of the elevator) for mobs too.
    If there are no mobs anymore, you're probably screwed, try to engage them the way you want, or just BC out.

    3) So you spawned beside the dark mages.
    Check the first elevator to see if it's activated.
    If it is, you will most likely be facing a host waiting for duels or gankers.
    If it's not anything is possible.
    Next step is up to you. You can take the elevator and risk to be waited by a squad at the top. If you're lucky enough, you may be able to retake the elevator and lure them to follow you and (hopefully) fail and fall.
    Or, you can send the elevator alone and listen if any spell/attack is triggered as it reach the top.
    After that you can choose to wait eternaly (and maybe browse the forum in the meantime while keeping an eye on the screen) for the squad to have the balls to go down.

    4) Use the enemies as much as possible
    When the squad finaly decided to take the elevator, wait for them with a bow or someting with range to possibly get free shots when they land.
    then you can go either for the large room, or fall back toward chasm of the abyss. Use the mobs to fight a little and make then use there estus as much as possible.

    If you took the large room option, climb up the stairs when the mobs are about to die, up to the roof (area with the mimic with the crest key). Normaly the team followed you, and you will be able to jump and go toward Chasm of the Abyss anyway.
    Still use the mobs and retreat when they are about to die. When they start engaging the chained prisoner, go check the elevator first(it might be at the bottom. If it is, call it and return to fight).
    When the prisoner is about to die or if they managed to sneak past it, take the elevator. Wait at the bottom with a bow etc...

    Use the mobs guarding dark bead if you're courageous and you think you will be able to escape when they die.

    Go to the large room with the humanity sprites. If you don't kill them here, it will be very hard. I suggest you try to sneak and fall toward the zone you save sif, maybe make a loop back to the large room with the (now dead) sprites if the squad follow you. Take the elevator alone and BC out.


    Alternatively to step 3), You can take the long road without the elevator and meet them on the way or at the top. Use the mobs :p

    With this strat, you won't win everything. Fighting people with 300-400SL more than you is still pretty hard and the mobs are sometimes just useless.
    The idea here if you can't get them, is to make them loose as much time/estus as possible, hopefully get the chance to kill them or, in last resort, BC out.

    My record with this strat is killing a team of SL712+707+705
    The host resummoned each phantom twice. In the end I killed him at the bonefire while he was trying to resummon them again. It lasted more than an hour, with a lot of hide and seek and waving in the distance or from a roof while waiting them to make a move, but it was the best feeling I ever had in the game so far. (This story could have been told in an other Tolvo thread biggrin)

    When I get hatemails (not that often. That's why I still think gankers are people too happy), I just answer "hypochrite!!"


    Last edited by VaDoom on Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:44 am; edited 3 times in total


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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by Paragon on Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:28 pm

    +1 for the essay Vadoom. On the one hand I gotta give you props just for finishing that monster, but on the other hand i found it surprisingly insightful and enlightening.


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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:28 pm

    I would, if I summoned phantoms and was questing, but I don't, so no, at least not by the definition given.

    Jump people from stealth though, that I do, most commonly when I'm not looking to fight because I'm busy, but also to deal with people who have decided to refuse to engage so they can heal every time they take a hit.


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    Re: How to Even the Odds

    Post by VaDoom on Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:53 am

    @Paragon Thank you for the rep, I +1 you too for your post about Dark Anor and the forest.
    I didn't think about using the Boss rooms to prevent new invasions


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