by DS_Dene Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:48 pmAt around 3:28 you can see a comparison between 2 classes.
Also: 3 weapons now for the left and right hand and more difficult bs.
What do you guys think about those changes?
Last edited by DS_Dene on Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Myztyrio
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Longer roll reach
DS_Dene- Casual
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At around 3:28 you can see a comparison between 2 classes.
Also: 3 weapons now for the left and right hand and more difficult bs.
What do you guys think about those changes?
Last edited by DS_Dene on Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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I don't like the rolling, I like the 3 weapons.
DS_Dene- Casual
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Definitely adds more tactics without changing stuff in the menus.
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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I'll only like it if rolling is still based on weight. 3 weapons will push you over the fast roll limit quickly.
If your rolling is based on what weapon is currently equipped, then I hate it.
If your rolling is based on what weapon is currently equipped, then I hate it.
DS_Dene- Casual
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Weight is still going to be a factor since the templar had heavier armour compared to the dual-wielder.
Light armour = more reach and invisibility frames.
Light armour = more reach and invisibility frames.
SadPanda- Caffeinated
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I don't like that the lighter classes have more roll reach. Mid-roll defintely deserves it since
A. Midrolling was very unviable until 1.05.
B. It should have longer reach to compensate for the slower speed.
From the stance of the roll, it should reach farther from the current animation of the midroll. The character gets low so there can be more force from the legs extending, therefore causing a longer, farther reaching roll than the fast roll. The fast roll however, only has the force from an upward stance, causing it to be a faster, more controlled roll. However it's less reaching than a midroll.
How it should be. Fat roll should be fat roll.
A. Midrolling was very unviable until 1.05.
B. It should have longer reach to compensate for the slower speed.
From the stance of the roll, it should reach farther from the current animation of the midroll. The character gets low so there can be more force from the legs extending, therefore causing a longer, farther reaching roll than the fast roll. The fast roll however, only has the force from an upward stance, causing it to be a faster, more controlled roll. However it's less reaching than a midroll.
How it should be. Fat roll should be fat roll.
phastings- Addicted
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Dibsville wrote:I'll only like it if rolling is still based on weight. 3 weapons will push you over the fast roll limit quickly.
If your rolling is based on what weapon is currently equipped, then I hate it.
Totally agree with this. I'm gonna assume they will increase the max equipment limit to accommodate 2 extra slots, so maybe it will be easier to adjust equipment using only 2 slots per hand to stay below 25% while utilizing heavier armor and being able to fast roll w some poise
GenericUsername- Obsessed
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I really hope they learned the difference between actually avoiding damage because you rolled out of the way of the attack, and avoiding damage even though you're actually getting hit.
Example, go find a corner in the room you're in and cram yourself in there. Now imagine being attacked by two people exhausting their entire stamina bar while keeping you pinned in there. Now imagine that you're rolling and not taking ANY damage in this small enclosed space because lol invincibility frames.
I hope for the best, but I still get the sinking feeling there are going to be invincibiliroll spammers.
Example, go find a corner in the room you're in and cram yourself in there. Now imagine being attacked by two people exhausting their entire stamina bar while keeping you pinned in there. Now imagine that you're rolling and not taking ANY damage in this small enclosed space because lol invincibility frames.
I hope for the best, but I still get the sinking feeling there are going to be invincibiliroll spammers.
Myztyrio- Insomniac
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I think it's all great 
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Wrong.SadPanda wrote:I don't like that the lighter classes have more roll reach. Mid-roll defintely deserves it since
B. It should have longer reach to compensate for the slower speed..
Armor and poise and/or enourmous weapon power compensate for the slower roll by lessening the need to do so, it should not get any benifit asside from that because otherwise its not a sacrifice (of defense and equipment) to got the better roll.
The mid roll was never good. I'm not sure what game you've been playing, but the mid roll has always been, in every way, inferior to the fast roll. Its managable, but when it really comes down to it mid roll builds are, and have always been, gimped.
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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Not necessarily true. While I'd agree that fast roll is indeed superior, mid-roll has advantages fast roll just can't compare to, such as extra weapon choice, not needing a specific ring, and more defense in case they do get hit.Forum Pirate wrote:Wrong.SadPanda wrote:I don't like that the lighter classes have more roll reach. Mid-roll defintely deserves it since
B. It should have longer reach to compensate for the slower speed..
Armor and poise and/or enourmous weapon power compensate for the slower roll by lessening the need to do so, it should not get any benifit asside from that because otherwise its not a sacrifice (of defense and equipment) to got the better roll.
The mid roll was never good. I'm not sure what game you've been playing, but the mid roll has always been, in every way, inferior to the fast roll. Its managable, but when it really comes down to it mid roll builds are, and have always been, gimped.
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A menu swap can easily negate the "specific rings" advantage and (unfortunately) light armor has no trouble hitting 325+ defense, and the diminishing returns cap is 350. The mid rolls advantages are slight and can be emulated but the fast rolls are extreme.
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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Like I said, fast roll is superior, but mid-roll has its advantages too. It's still something you can strive for because it's decent enough to use.
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Really? Half of my builds are mid-roll, and I'm not sure that anyone on the forums can vouch, but I win a lot of fights viably with mid-roll. Fast roll is good, but mid-roll is honestly more fun. I only really use fast roll if I'm not using poise, and mid-roll when I want to take hits, and deal more damage. And yes, mid roll should be able to go farther than fast roll. There is no doubt that there are flaws with fast roll, and taking them for granted doesn't immediately make it superior.Forum Pirate wrote:Wrong.SadPanda wrote:I don't like that the lighter classes have more roll reach. Mid-roll defintely deserves it since
B. It should have longer reach to compensate for the slower speed..
Armor and poise and/or enourmous weapon power compensate for the slower roll by lessening the need to do so, it should not get any benifit asside from that because otherwise its not a sacrifice (of defense and equipment) to got the better roll.
The mid roll was never good. I'm not sure what game you've been playing, but the mid roll has always been, in every way, inferior to the fast roll. Its managable, but when it really comes down to it mid roll builds are, and have always been, gimped.
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I win the majority of the fights in which I mid roll as well, that is not, in itself, an indication of how good the roll is as there are many variables. The fast rolls only flaw is the lighter equipment load, and I've already explained how menu swapping makes that largely irrelivant.
As for your "mid roll should go farther" thing, explain why then (as I already explained why it shouldn't, and even left out that the heavier gear would, logically speaking, get in the way of a longer, more streatched out roll.)
As for your "mid roll should go farther" thing, explain why then (as I already explained why it shouldn't, and even left out that the heavier gear would, logically speaking, get in the way of a longer, more streatched out roll.)
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Because with fast roll you finish the roll faster, and with mid roll you finish it slower. Since you're not fat rolling (Where you jump up and hit the ground) and are instead rolling normally, you go further since you're rolling for a longer period.
Imagine if fast roll had the same length as mid roll does currently. DWGR would LITERALLY become useless.
Imagine if fast roll had the same length as mid roll does currently. DWGR would LITERALLY become useless.
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sorry, but no. How long you're in executing a single roll has no bearing on how far you travel, again logically speaking.
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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Logically speaking, you practically do a flip in mid air with fast roll, then quickly get up. You literally do a roll with mid roll.
Logically, rolling goes further than a mid-air somersault
Logically, rolling goes further than a mid-air somersault
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I'm aware this is a fantasy game, but any arguement for magical sliding heavy armor is absurd on the face of it, at least in the context of dark souls.
Also, the dwgr gets more invincibility frames than the fast roll, and they start sooner in the roll, which reveals that assertion as exageration.
And again, no. With the lighter armor one can do a full blown, fully extended leaping roll, where heavr armor would detract from the force of the initial forward/upward movement, shortening the roll. (distance)
Also, the dwgr gets more invincibility frames than the fast roll, and they start sooner in the roll, which reveals that assertion as exageration.
And again, no. With the lighter armor one can do a full blown, fully extended leaping roll, where heavr armor would detract from the force of the initial forward/upward movement, shortening the roll. (distance)
Dibsville- Abyss Dweller
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It could do a leap roll, but it doesn't.
DWGR is already practically useless, if fast roll went the same distance as mid-roll, DWGR would NOT be worth a ring slot.
DWGR is already practically useless, if fast roll went the same distance as mid-roll, DWGR would NOT be worth a ring slot.
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Wether it does or not is irrelivant, the fast roll should be, concludively and without room for arguement, the most effective dodge, both for dodging and escaping the weapons range.
The mid roll is a sacrifice, but it allows more equiment room and defense and/or poise (a bigger deal in 2 hopefully, as of now the difference is negligable)
The mid roll is a sacrifice, but it allows more equiment room and defense and/or poise (a bigger deal in 2 hopefully, as of now the difference is negligable)
Animaaal- Compulsory Poster
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wow 
Fast-roll > mid-roll.
Mid-roll does not always equal more damage.
The DWGR is far from useless.
PSsspsppP-I thought the video was awesome.
PPSSPSPSPSP-NOW I KNOW WHAT YOU MEANT PANDA.
I thought using a shield as a talisman was something you made up. I thought it was ingenius, but....ooooooh nvm.
Fast-roll > mid-roll.
Mid-roll does not always equal more damage.
The DWGR is far from useless.
PSsspsppP-I thought the video was awesome.
PPSSPSPSPSP-NOW I KNOW WHAT YOU MEANT PANDA.
I thought using a shield as a talisman was something you made up. I thought it was ingenius, but....ooooooh nvm.
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Even though it IS a fantasy game, obvious real life physics should apply. Since a fast roll is essentially a from stand-still dodge, the legs cannot get as much propulsion as if they could from a stance such as the midroll. If you look at the mid roll, he goes in at a slight crouch. When his head is at about 90 degrees, his foot which is still planted on the ground kicks as the knee is not extended. From a fast roll, it's a simple hop into the tuck motion rather than a preparation up into it. Mid roll should be a slower fat rolll, and a shoulder roll. Fast roll should be the same tuck 'n' roll. And fat roll should be a slower version of what mid-roll is now.
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As a person who hardswaps his main weapon via a the menu, I'm largely unaffected by the introduction of a third slot.
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Fast rolling has always been the most competitively viable, to the point where that needs to be revisited. I'd drop the i-frame count and retain the speed personally...and make it much harder to have poise and fast roll.
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