This thread is of course speculation, but I'd like to think that some of my guesses have decent odds of being on the right rack. I've done a lot of vagrant research, watching every video I can find, recording their drop information, and saving every screenshot. These seem like logical conclusions to me.
Let's consider the only real information we have about what causes them to spawn, which comes from the game manual:
Hypothesis #1
I have no idea what qualifies as a large amount, nor the exact method of how they need to be lost. My guess is that if you have 99 soft humanity, and suicide twice to lose a bloodstain containing that much humanity, that's a way to send a vagrant to another player's world. But where does "large" begin? 30? 50? 80? No idea.
But why the Evil Vagrants? The Evil Vagrants always drop 1 humanity or 1 twin humanities, depending on their color. This is unlike the Good Vagrants, which drop a variety of items other than humanity. It would likely make the most sense if the vagrants that dropped humanity were caused by lost humanity, and if the vagrants that drop misc. items were caused by various items being dropped.
The concept of dying and losing humanity also sounds like a more negative thing than dropping items, which fits the theme of a vagrant that attacks you vs. a vagrant that is like a little crystal lizard.
Hypothesis #2
With #1, this of course means that I believe that the Good Vagrants are caused by dropping items. But I also believe that their drops may be the same as the objects that caused them to spawn in the first place! If this is true, we have something that may finally point us in the right direction.
Good Vagrants are incredibly rare to see any documentation of. There are only two videos I've been able to find of a player killing a Good Vagrant and showing its drop (this is unlike Evil Vagrants, where you can find PLENTY of videos that confirm they only drop humanity and twin humanities). I've had to carefully search high and low on the internet to compile a short list of the known items that they drop.
Let's take a look at the items they drop and consider the plausibility of them spawning vagrants:
-The Divine Blessing is certainly a rare item, and not one that a lot of players would want to part with. Plenty of people have duped them, or hacked them, depending on their system. But even then, those players probably aren't frequently abandoning them anywhere. The same goes for most other items on the list.
-Gold Pine Resin happens to be farm-able, but I don't think a lot of players are maxing their inventory out with them or dropping them and abandoning them. But what if they did? Wouldn't this contribute to more Good Vagrants spawning in the Darkroot Forest, when a host with max gold pine resins clears out the mushroom area and can't pick up more resins? Well, it just so happens that 3/5 of the only screenshots I've seen of Good Vagrants are of Good Vagrants located specifically in the forest. Perhaps this is no coincidence.
-The Large Soul of a Nameless Soldier doesn't seem particularly rare- there are 16 that can be found per playthrough. But here's the thing with them, since they're not that special, I can't think of a reason players would frequently trade these items (and possibly get killed in the process, abandoning one, etc). Rewarding only 1,000 souls, they might make for a perfectly obscure item that players wouldn't think is special.
-You can buy infinite Purging Stones from the Undead Female Merchant, but bear in mind that you couldn't in the unpatched version of the game. They used to be a lot more rare and limited, which fits the theme of picking rare items like Diving Blessings to be the source of a Vagrant. And even with an unlimited supply being available, they're still expensive and not something that players will probably frequently purchase and abandon.
-There's only 5 Silver Coins in one playthrough of the game, and 1 Gold Coin.
-The Transient Curse follows the same sort of model as the Purging Stone.
What would possibly throw a wrench in this hypothesis is if we find out that one of the Good Vagrants drops something incredibly common - like a Purple Moss Clump (I seem to recall reading that somewhere a while ago, but can't find it again)? Even then, we still don't know the exact mechanics, and it could be possible that dropping and abandoning one of these items isn't guaranteed and goes through a randomization process. What if a Silver Coin had 1/2 chance of creating a vagrant, while a Large Soul of a Nameless Soldier had a 1/10 chance? What if you have to drop at least a certain number in a spot at once? These unknowns don't allow us to rule out common items being able to spawn vagrants, but the list so far makes it look like things that players wouldn't typically abandon, which makes sense.
Let's consider the only real information we have about what causes them to spawn, which comes from the game manual:
So we're looking at two sources of vagrants - a "large amount" of lost humanity, and a certain item or certain items being dropped...If you drop a certain item or lose a large amount of Humanity, those items and Humanity move to another player's world and form Vagrant enemies.
Hypothesis #1
- The Evil Vagrants are caused by losing a large amount of lost humanity.
I have no idea what qualifies as a large amount, nor the exact method of how they need to be lost. My guess is that if you have 99 soft humanity, and suicide twice to lose a bloodstain containing that much humanity, that's a way to send a vagrant to another player's world. But where does "large" begin? 30? 50? 80? No idea.
But why the Evil Vagrants? The Evil Vagrants always drop 1 humanity or 1 twin humanities, depending on their color. This is unlike the Good Vagrants, which drop a variety of items other than humanity. It would likely make the most sense if the vagrants that dropped humanity were caused by lost humanity, and if the vagrants that drop misc. items were caused by various items being dropped.
The concept of dying and losing humanity also sounds like a more negative thing than dropping items, which fits the theme of a vagrant that attacks you vs. a vagrant that is like a little crystal lizard.
Hypothesis #2
- The Good Vagrants may actually be created by the same items they drop.
With #1, this of course means that I believe that the Good Vagrants are caused by dropping items. But I also believe that their drops may be the same as the objects that caused them to spawn in the first place! If this is true, we have something that may finally point us in the right direction.
Good Vagrants are incredibly rare to see any documentation of. There are only two videos I've been able to find of a player killing a Good Vagrant and showing its drop (this is unlike Evil Vagrants, where you can find PLENTY of videos that confirm they only drop humanity and twin humanities). I've had to carefully search high and low on the internet to compile a short list of the known items that they drop.
Let's take a look at the items they drop and consider the plausibility of them spawning vagrants:
- Divine Blessing
- Large Soul of a Nameless Soldier
- Gold Pine Resin
- Purging Stone
- Silver Coin
- Gold Coin
- Transient Curse
-The Divine Blessing is certainly a rare item, and not one that a lot of players would want to part with. Plenty of people have duped them, or hacked them, depending on their system. But even then, those players probably aren't frequently abandoning them anywhere. The same goes for most other items on the list.
-Gold Pine Resin happens to be farm-able, but I don't think a lot of players are maxing their inventory out with them or dropping them and abandoning them. But what if they did? Wouldn't this contribute to more Good Vagrants spawning in the Darkroot Forest, when a host with max gold pine resins clears out the mushroom area and can't pick up more resins? Well, it just so happens that 3/5 of the only screenshots I've seen of Good Vagrants are of Good Vagrants located specifically in the forest. Perhaps this is no coincidence.
-The Large Soul of a Nameless Soldier doesn't seem particularly rare- there are 16 that can be found per playthrough. But here's the thing with them, since they're not that special, I can't think of a reason players would frequently trade these items (and possibly get killed in the process, abandoning one, etc). Rewarding only 1,000 souls, they might make for a perfectly obscure item that players wouldn't think is special.
-You can buy infinite Purging Stones from the Undead Female Merchant, but bear in mind that you couldn't in the unpatched version of the game. They used to be a lot more rare and limited, which fits the theme of picking rare items like Diving Blessings to be the source of a Vagrant. And even with an unlimited supply being available, they're still expensive and not something that players will probably frequently purchase and abandon.
-There's only 5 Silver Coins in one playthrough of the game, and 1 Gold Coin.
-The Transient Curse follows the same sort of model as the Purging Stone.
What would possibly throw a wrench in this hypothesis is if we find out that one of the Good Vagrants drops something incredibly common - like a Purple Moss Clump (I seem to recall reading that somewhere a while ago, but can't find it again)? Even then, we still don't know the exact mechanics, and it could be possible that dropping and abandoning one of these items isn't guaranteed and goes through a randomization process. What if a Silver Coin had 1/2 chance of creating a vagrant, while a Large Soul of a Nameless Soldier had a 1/10 chance? What if you have to drop at least a certain number in a spot at once? These unknowns don't allow us to rule out common items being able to spawn vagrants, but the list so far makes it look like things that players wouldn't typically abandon, which makes sense.
Last edited by retro on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:53 pm; edited 2 times in total