What is cheating ?

Azrial wrote:I see a lot about what is honourable in Dark Souls and it got me thinking what is cheating ??

* Hacking

Obvious but gives us a baseline we can all agree on


* Duping

Mostly divine blessing, but isn't it cheating whatever you dupe, however you use it


* Roll camera lock backstab

Dose not seem intended by dev's


* Chain backstab

Again dose not seem intended


* Dead angle

Maybe intended maybe not, but WOG dead angle is just crazy


Interested in your thoughts

Praise the sun

Dibsville wrote:

Azrial wrote:I see a lot about what is honourable in Dark Souls and it got me thinking what is cheating ??

* Hacking

Obvious but gives us a baseline we can all agree on


* Duping

Mostly divine blessing, but isn't it cheating whatever you dupe, however you use it


* Roll camera lock backstab

Dose not seem intended by dev's


* Chain backstab

Again dose not seem intended


* Dead angle

Maybe intended maybe not, but WOG dead angle is just crazy


Interested in your thoughts

Praise the sun

Fixed
Those were completely intended by the devs, and there are ways to counter it.

Dibsville wrote:If it was not intended, they would have fixed it in the last 9 patches.

wretchedsausage wrote:Cheating- Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game.

it's pretty much anything which gives you an unfair advantage over others. none of the things you mentioned constitute cheating, since everybody can do them, so there is no advantage, unfair or otherwise.

Azrial wrote:

Dibsville wrote:If it was not intended, they would have fixed it in the last 9 patches.

Maybe they couldn't fix it

Dibsville wrote:

Azrial wrote:

Dibsville wrote:If it was not intended, they would have fixed it in the last 9 patches.

Maybe they couldn't fix it

They can fix it.
It's a game, you can fix anything.

Dibsville wrote:They are a huge mechanic to the PvP of the game. If it wasn't intended, they would have fixed it.

Dibsville wrote:I think you misunderstood me when I said huge mechanic.

I meant that it has a major effect on PvP. I did not say the effect was good.

They would have fixed it if they didn't intend for it to be there.

swordiris wrote:The only thing that is "Cheating" is hacking the game.

Anything From allows you to do is fair. As much as I hate gankers I don't even consider that "Cheating" because the game allows people to do it.

Everything is fair in a one vs one fight except hacking. Ganking is unfair only by the nature of two vs one. Think of it as your opponent playing with a handicap, it isn't however "Cheating"

If it was not intended, they would have fixed it in the last 9 patches.

• Hacks
  
• Glitches to duplicate items in a way where they would otherwise not be attainable
  
• Lag switching (IE using your network setup to induce untimely lag on the opponent on purpose).
  

• Toggle Escape (alters weapon balance and viability negatively)
  
• Dead angle WoG, or anything that hits from the front while blocking from the front
  
• Lag stabs/distortion (not much you can do about it w/o servers, but still annoying)
  

TheMeInTeam wrote:

If it was not intended, they would have fixed it in the last 9 patches.

Patch history across games suggests that this isn't true at all, despite the fact that it is a logical position.

Besides, it is very possible that the issue is deep enough in the engine that fixing it is not viable on a cost basis.

Obvious cheating:

• Hacks
  
• Glitches to duplicate items in a way where they would otherwise not be attainable
  
• Lag switching (IE using your network setup to induce untimely lag on the opponent on purpose).
  

Annoying/overcentralizing glitches:

• Toggle Escape (alters weapon balance and viability negatively)
  
• Dead angle WoG, or anything that hits from the front while blocking from the front
  
• Lag stabs/distortion (not much you can do about it w/o servers, but still annoying)
  

I don't see how a roll backstab isn't considered valid; you are locked and so will make an effort to punish, and it will only work on weapons that have a slow recover and/or are poorly timed. Even tickstabbing, ganks, and so forth are logical actions based on known in-game mechanics.

I might catch flak for calling toggle escapes a glitch, but they 100% are. If a weapon is designed to stun-lock you and otherwise would, there is 0 logical reasoning that toggling at a specific timing would influence that. It bypasses some of the importance of poise (a big tradeoff mechanic in this game) and nerfs the viability of the bigger, heavier weapons...making the #weapons that are competitively viable smaller to a degree. I don't blame people for using it, but it IS a glitch and it DOES centralize the game.

Dead angle WoG is just stupid. It is sensible for a wide swing arc that actually goes around a shield to hit, it is not sensible for something immediately in front of you to ignore your shield solely because the person is facing a different direction. Here too, it's powerful and makes sense to utilize it unless both parties agree ahead of time not to use it, but it's an overcentralizing factor in the game and quite glitchy.

swordiris wrote:

TheMeInTeam wrote:

If it was not intended, they would have fixed it in the last 9 patches.

Patch history across games suggests that this isn't true at all, despite the fact that it is a logical position.

Besides, it is very possible that the issue is deep enough in the engine that fixing it is not viable on a cost basis.

Obvious cheating:

• Hacks
  
• Glitches to duplicate items in a way where they would otherwise not be attainable
  
• Lag switching (IE using your network setup to induce untimely lag on the opponent on purpose).
  

Annoying/overcentralizing glitches:

• Toggle Escape (alters weapon balance and viability negatively)
  
• Dead angle WoG, or anything that hits from the front while blocking from the front
  
• Lag stabs/distortion (not much you can do about it w/o servers, but still annoying)
  

I don't see how a roll backstab isn't considered valid; you are locked and so will make an effort to punish, and it will only work on weapons that have a slow recover and/or are poorly timed. Even tickstabbing, ganks, and so forth are logical actions based on known in-game mechanics.

I might catch flak for calling toggle escapes a glitch, but they 100% are. If a weapon is designed to stun-lock you and otherwise would, there is 0 logical reasoning that toggling at a specific timing would influence that. It bypasses some of the importance of poise (a big tradeoff mechanic in this game) and nerfs the viability of the bigger, heavier weapons...making the #weapons that are competitively viable smaller to a degree. I don't blame people for using it, but it IS a glitch and it DOES centralize the game.

Dead angle WoG is just stupid. It is sensible for a wide swing arc that actually goes around a shield to hit, it is not sensible for something immediately in front of you to ignore your shield solely because the person is facing a different direction. Here too, it's powerful and makes sense to utilize it unless both parties agree ahead of time not to use it, but it's an overcentralizing factor in the game and quite glitchy.

It doesn't matter if the developers intended a glitch or not. It is completely fair unless you didn't alter the game they put out (glitch free or not).

What do you think about instances where there was a glitch that was later patched out but anyone found to have used it was banned from the game ?

GrinTwist wrote:Cheating?

Well I find that is an umbrella term for more things to fall under. Hacking can be considered cheating, BSing someone while bowing for a duel could be considered cheating by the victim, and megamuling could be considered cheating by some too.

Personally, I find that the only form of cheating in Dark Souls is hacking, everything else can only be considered cheating by the player's standards.

TheMeInTeam wrote:

GrinTwist wrote:Cheating?

Well I find that is an umbrella term for more things to fall under. Hacking can be considered cheating, BSing someone while bowing for a duel could be considered cheating by the victim, and megamuling could be considered cheating by some too.

Personally, I find that the only form of cheating in Dark Souls is hacking, everything else can only be considered cheating by the player's standards.

You do not need any hacks to lag-switch someone, but it is most definitely cheating. Done properly it is absolutely impossible to win against it; the screen will freeze for about 1.5 seconds and then you're on the ground after being backstabbed. Then, it will freeze for another 1.5 seconds and you die.

Fortunately, it's very very very uncommon in DS, though you used to see reasonably often in games like Halo 3 and as of a few months ago it was still very common in Madden. It can be done in any game that doesn't use servers.