Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

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    Rathlin1

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    Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by Rathlin1 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:45 am

    Here's the build I'm thinking about doing:

    http://mmdks.com/2l3q

    However I'm not sure if it's the best I can do with it, for example should I go 14 or 16 STR? Should I go 16 or 23 ATT? I know about how after a certain point you begin to get diminishing returns like past 50 VIT and past 40 END but for a Dex/Pyro build is it not important to have 23 ATT for more slots so I can have a wider range of spells or is it not worth it?

    You guys got any advice about what my stats should be and what equipment I should use for a SL120 PVP Dex/Pyro build?
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    Jansports
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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by Jansports on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:21 pm

    I personally use this for my 120 dex Pyro. http://mmdks.com/2l42

    19 attune is 5 spell slots, which should be plenty, Chaos Fireball, Black Flame(or Great combustion) and Fire Surge are IMO the staple Spells to use. Unlocked fireballs to control space with the lava, or if you manage to hit them a quick follow up strike (most dex weapon running attacks will connect depending on range you could even just use r1 or r2) Black Flame/Great Combustion for that fast oomph of damage. I tend to favor Black Flame as it does more poise damage, which can lead to combos, but on average GC does deal more raw damage against most targets (In fact I cannot recall a time where BF did more) And Firesurge does excellent chip to end a fight when they have very little health left. Also if you have the poise to tank a few swings just holding down firesurge can quickly rack up the damage, it's easy to get over 1k damage from it with Crown on..

    The armor set up and the END being over 40 is so you can have 36 poise with just RoFaP, allowing you to use a variety of secondary rings, BDCR if you want more damage, Leo if you decide to use a spear or something like the BSS, DWGR for flips Havel's if you wanna pile on more armor. You can even swap to RTSR when your health is low and turn a fight around (rtsr active black flames hurt a lot) If you should choose you can even put wolf's on and hit 76 poise which is enough to tank at least 1 hit from even ultra weapons.

    I personally don't keep many weapons on the quick swap since you can just use the menu and it doesn't increase your burden.

    Weapons to consider using. (because you asked about equipment, though it looks like you know what weapons to use mr katana and great scythe)
    Katanas (any non washing pole, you could 2h the pole but not 1h)
    Silver Knight Spear
    Balder side Sword
    Falchion/Gold tracer
    Great Scythe

    You know standard Dex stuff
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    shadowzninjaz
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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by shadowzninjaz on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:28 pm

    Dex/pyro probs the most standard build in the game also simply 2 use and make just get, 16 attun and 45 dex and vit. Most people hate fighting this type of build 2 cause some people just spam away XD


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    lolface

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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by lolface on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:38 pm

    This is my setup:

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=440936941743089264

    Don't think it can really get better than this.

    You hit the soft cap on Vitality and the hard cap on Endurance/Dex (with regards to Stamina and casting speed).

    I put 23 attenuation is just because I felt like those points couldn't be used better somewhere else (putting the 4 points into vitality is about 43 hp with RoFP). Having two combusts is nice for drawn out fights. Great chaos fireball is pretty standard. I do a few different combos that require fire surge and fire tempest.

    You meet the 56 poise benchmark, and you have pretty good physical defenses.

    EDIT: This build is for SL125. For SL120, I would take the 5 points out of vitality (70 hp decrease).
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    LunarFog
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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:51 pm

    Well technically pyros get diminishing returns after SL 1 since puromancy flames power is independent from a stat. If your planning on being mostly pyro or even just a lot of pyro, I'd seriously consider lowering your SL to 99 or even 50.



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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by Rathlin1 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:07 pm

    EDIT: Just as I was typing this lolface posted a message, how those points in VIT could be better spent? Yeah I thought the same for my build, it was either a small increase or slots for more spells but I had doubts.

    I'm just wondering if I were to go 16 ATT and 14 STR and then allocate those points into both VIT and END, would that be a good idea? While I'll miss out on one more ATT slot and lose some weapon variety like the Chaos Blade (supposedly pretty good, right?) I wouldn't exactly need those, correct? Would that be suggested?

    Stats intended:

    SL120
    VIT: 50 (1800 with RoFaP, 1500 without)
    ATT: 16 (4 slots)
    END: 48 (160 Stamina/88.0 Equip load without any gear. I was going to make both VIT and END 49, using the remaining points evenly between the two but then I thought it doesn't really matter and I was just being picky, your thoughts?)
    STR: 14 (Wield katanas like the Uchigatana but miss out on weapons like the Chaos Blade due to 2 less STR)
    DEX: 45 (Pyro cast speed and it's a dex build so yeah obviously)
    RES: Base (Why does this even exist?)
    INT: Base (Not part of build)
    FAI: Base (Not part of build)
    HUM: 99 (It helps)

    I'll use your build as an example, Jansports:

    http://mmdks.com/2l4n

    Due to the less ATT there is only 4 slots (or 3 with Great Chaos Fireball, then I guess Black Flame/Great Combustion and Fire Surge for the other two slots remaining).

    What do you think of those changes?
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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by lolface on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:21 pm

    I think that's a solid build. Honestly, it comes down to how dependent you are on ninja roll and how well you can avoid tanking hits/getting stun-locked.

    If you like the extra invincibility frames with the ninja roll, stick with DWGR. You sacrifice the 56 poise benchmark and put more points into endurance to accommodate the heavier armor (which means lower attenuation). You do run the risk of getting stun-locked by greatswords, etc.

    If you prefer more poise, take the Wolf Ring and lighten up your armor but still hit the 56 poise mark. This lets you take points out of endurance and get those extra spell casts.



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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by Rathlin1 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:46 pm

    lolface wrote:I think that's a solid build. Honestly, it comes down to how dependent you are on ninja roll and how well you can avoid tanking hits/getting stun-locked.

    If you like the extra invincibility frames with the ninja roll, stick with DWGR. You sacrifice the 56 poise benchmark and put more points into endurance to accommodate the heavier armor (which means lower attenuation). You do run the risk of getting stun-locked by greatswords, etc.

    If you prefer more poise, take the Wolf Ring and lighten up your armor but still hit the 56 poise mark. This lets you take points out of endurance and get those extra spell casts.



    I have a few questions about your build in particular:

    1) Why stop at SL125? Is SL120 not as much the sweet spot for PVP?
    2) Pretty sure I saw a build exactly like that, well stats-wise. Except that one had 4 Endurance more instead of splitting it between VIT/END 2 each like you did. Another one put the 4 points in VIT instead Completely different equips though, let me go find it.

    First one: http://mmdks.com/2l6f
    Second one: http://mmdks.com/2l6g

    What are the opinions of those equips?
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    Jansports
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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by Jansports on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:05 pm

    The second one uses a set up I'm very familiar with. Dingy Robe Knight Gauntlets and HSWC + wolf's for 53 poise. It's a useful set up because the knight gauntlets + HSWC is literally the lightest way to get to 53 poise with wolf ring.

    However Since Sex/Pyro is kind of a one stat build, at SL120 it can afford to go past the END soft cap for better (heavier) armor. It doesn't really need to save as much weight as possible.

    Similarly I like 16str for the same (sorta) reason. You have plenty of points to sped and those 2 extra points in STR open up goodies like the Silver Knight Spear, Chaos Blade, even a few quality weapon work alright since you have *24* str when 2 handing for scaling, the claymore and halberd become options as well.

    The build I originally posted is actually the build I use at 120 for all my Dex needs (I also have a strength/faith 120 build) After hours of playing I just like the versatility of the 36 poise breakpoint without wolf's. As you can take a hit or two from most weapons that can keep up with you (since you use dex weapons and most swing fast you don't need to tank too much) Meaning you can flip or boost your damage with Bellowing or Leo ring if you use a trusting weapon. Or of you want more poise for certain fights you can put the wolf ring on and viola! 76 poise, enough to take a single hit from any weapon.

    Of course you might not care about the 16 str weapons, and you might not want 5 spell slots you might only want 4 or you may find 6 more to your liking.

    But if you're looking for a place to start my build lets you customize your weapon, one of your rings (saddly the build needs RoFaP to fast roll) and has plenty of room for various spells. Once you know what you like to use you can make a build more specialized.
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    lolface

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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by lolface on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:32 pm

    Rathlin1 wrote:
    lolface wrote:I think that's a solid build. Honestly, it comes down to how dependent you are on ninja roll and how well you can avoid tanking hits/getting stun-locked.

    If you like the extra invincibility frames with the ninja roll, stick with DWGR. You sacrifice the 56 poise benchmark and put more points into endurance to accommodate the heavier armor (which means lower attenuation). You do run the risk of getting stun-locked by greatswords, etc.

    If you prefer more poise, take the Wolf Ring and lighten up your armor but still hit the 56 poise mark. This lets you take points out of endurance and get those extra spell casts.



    I have a few questions about your build in particular:

    1) Why stop at SL125? Is SL120 not as much the sweet spot for PVP?
    2) Pretty sure I saw a build exactly like that, well stats-wise. Except that one had 4 Endurance more instead of splitting it between VIT/END 2 each like you did. Another one put the 4 points in VIT instead Completely different equips though, let me go find it.

    First one: http://mmdks.com/2l6f
    Second one: http://mmdks.com/2l6g

    What are the opinions of those equips?

    1. The SL120 cutoff is generally used for PvP tournaments so many players stop there. For a casual player such as myself, I have no trouble finding PvP at SL125 (because I still have access to all of the SL120 players). I prefer SL125 sometimes because it makes for a tidier build (i.e. I can cap my stats and wear what I want to).

    2. Comments on those builds: (tbh those last few Vit/End points don't really matter unless it enables fast roll or whatever)

    First one: Didn't take Ring of Favor and Protection which sacrifices about 300 hp and 30 stamina. However, hits harder with Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring. In addition to using Crown of Dusk, this tells me that the build is more casting oriented. The physical defenses are a little lower, but this build also breaks the 60 poise mark, which means it can tank a hit of dark flame without breaking poise. The lack of shield isn't concerning because you can just swap the bow for it. Important to note that the Hollow Waistcloth is ugly as hell.

    tl/dr: More spell-oriented, squishier, can tank 1 cast of dark flame, ugly

    Second one: 200 hp increase because of the Mask of Mother (the item specific trade-off is about 15 less physical defense, which is makes this a great choice). The build itself has a LOT lower physical defenses, which makes the build feel kinda squishy. It meets the 53 poise mark (the 56 advantage is just the running R1 for 2h great swords). Solid build, would personally prefer more physical defense though. Throw on MoM on my build and compare the two.


    Rathlin1

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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by Rathlin1 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:34 pm

    lolface wrote:Important to note that the Hollow Waistcloth is ugly as hell.

    Damn right it is. I remember when Dark Souls came out and I got a piece of the Hollow armor and it was just horrible, I don't why I did it but I was just running around with the full set equipped instead of staying with the cool Pyromancer outfit.

    But some more questions:

    1) You have two Ascended Flames on LH2 and RH2, what exactly does that achieve? To be more unpredictable or do you just want to fill the slot with something?

    2)Chaos Blade or the Uchi? Chaos Blade damages me every time I successfully hit an enemy and has higher damage but is it worth it?

    After those questions I have none more, there's not much to ask after all that really. Also I changed your build to the Mom mask and it's way better, then again the other build had like 7 weight free for some reason.


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    lolface

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    Re: Ideal Dex/Pyro SL120 PVP Build

    Post by lolface on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:55 pm

    Rathlin1 wrote:
    lolface wrote:Important to note that the Hollow Waistcloth is ugly as hell.

    Damn right it is. I remember when Dark Souls came out and I got a piece of the Hollow armor and it was just horrible, I don't why I did it but I was just running around with the full set equipped instead of staying with the cool Pyromancer outfit.

    But some more questions:

    1) You have two Ascended Flames on LH2 and RH2, what exactly does that achieve? To be more unpredictable or do you just want to fill the slot with something?

    2)Chaos Blade or the Uchi? Chaos Blade damages me every time I successfully hit an enemy and has higher damage but is it worth it?

    After those questions I have none more, there's not much to ask after all that really. Also I changed your build to the Mom mask and it's way better, then again the other build had like 7 weight free for some reason.



    Yep! MoM is a great item, and I think swapping the Wanderer Hood for it definitively makes the build stronger imo. I don't use it due to aesthetic reasons cool

    1. It is partially to be more unpredictable. The bigger reason is so I can use my shield immediately after casts (or even interrupt cast and shield) without taking the time to switch items. There are multiple situations where this is invaluable. It just has some small niche uses, which makes it better than leaving the slot empty (I can't carry much else and still fast roll - if I need another weapon or shield like the Shotel against turtles, you can manually switch out pretty quickly).

    2. It's up to you! I would choose based on whose attack animations you like more or find more useful. Very little difference. Chaos blade has a higher bleed and more damage at 10 humanity. I hate the R2/strong attack, though.

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