Confused dex int or just int build...

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    Mr. Pancake
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    Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Mr. Pancake on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:31 pm

    I'm making a mage build but dont know whether or not spend all the levels on dex, I have no reason to raise it but to increase the casting speed of my sorceries.

    Heres a quick build I made for an example, its not a set in stone build. I sacrificed vit end, and int for the max casting speed for dex.

    http://mmdks.com/2koc

    Also here another without the high dex.
    http://mmdks.com/2koa

    I'd love to hear suggestions or opinions on these builds. The gear is just for looks I know I can still get fast roll with better armor, but if you know a better ring combination let me know. c:

    Personal experience stories is a plus! Like, if you found a dex mage even worth all those extra levels...
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:40 pm

    Not for me. Sorcery just doesn't seem to require it in the same way Pyromancy does (for the record, I've even seen people manage without the DEX boost on their Pyros). I'm sure you'll hear people here tell you it's a must so take this with a grain of salt. But my mages have always managed without the DEX. Of course, the DEX is very nice because it opens up use of the Velka's Rapier at 16 DEX and above, but solely for casting speed I just don't think it is worth it.

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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Mr. Pancake on Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:02 pm

    Ohh I see so its probably only worth it if I was using a dex scaling weapon. That makes sense, thanks!


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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Jansports on Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:06 pm

    If you're going to be using the Moonlight and you wont be buffing a dex scaling weapon then all you need is the 10 dex. The faster casting for sorcery is hardly as noticeable as it is with pyro, or even the lightning spear miracles. CSS even with 40 dex just doesn't seem farer then 10 dex.

    Also the moonlight is a wonderful weapon but I'd be careful trying to use it with zero poise, it is a greatsword so it doesn't swing as fast as many other weapons
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Montante on Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:30 pm

    Jansports wrote: CSS even with 40 dex just doesn't seem farer then 10 dex.

    That's because the change in casting speed doesn't happen until you go from 40 to 45. You can check out a list of detailed percentage cast rates in a thread I made a while back: http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t10790-comprehensive-survey-of-dexterity-s-impact-on-sorcery-casting-speed

    Edit: But on topic, yes, the faster casting speed alone isn't that amazing.
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by LunarFog on Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:47 pm

    http://mmdks.com/2kre

    That's how I would do it.

    Velka's rapier is used to take advantage of the high dex and high int. You don't need the moonlight greatsword since the only advantage it has over the velka's rapier is the ranged attack, but you have spells so....

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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Jansports on Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:50 pm

    LunarFog wrote:http://mmdks.com/2kre

    That's how I would do it.

    Velka's rapier is used to take advantage of the high dex and high int. You don't need the moonlight greatsword since the only advantage it has over the velka's rapier is the ranged attack, but you have spells so....

    It hits harder, does more poise damage, can combo R1-R1 (the full stunlock is gone but it can still combo a few hits together if it poise breaks) And the ranged attack is a pretty big deal. It does good damage, it does amazing damage if you hit with both the sword and the explosion. It can allow for tick stabs

    I'm not saying Velka's is bad. It can shield poke, has a nice moveset. But the moonlight great sword is some kind of monster. It's worth investing in the Int to use it if you plan to use no spells IMO
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by LunarFog on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:12 pm

    Jansports wrote:

    It hits harder, does more poise damage, can combo R1-R1 (the full stunlock is gone but it can still combo a few hits together if it poise breaks) And the ranged attack is a pretty big deal. It does good damage, it does amazing damage if you hit with both the sword and the explosion. It can allow for tick stabs

    I'm not saying Velka's is bad. It can shield poke, has a nice moveset. But the moonlight great sword is some kind of monster. It's worth investing in the Int to use it if you plan to use no spells IMO
    Yea it'd be great if he had no spells, but he does. Yea, I understand that it hits slightly harder, but the velka rapier is quicker and harder to parry. I'd say for effectiveness they're about even. And the Velka's rapier also fits his stats better.

    But it all comes down to preference at that point.

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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Mr. Pancake on Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:24 pm

    LunarFog wrote:
    Jansports wrote:

    It hits harder, does more poise damage, can combo R1-R1 (the full stunlock is gone but it can still combo a few hits together if it poise breaks) And the ranged attack is a pretty big deal. It does good damage, it does amazing damage if you hit with both the sword and the explosion. It can allow for tick stabs

    I'm not saying Velka's is bad. It can shield poke, has a nice moveset. But the moonlight great sword is some kind of monster. It's worth investing in the Int to use it if you plan to use no spells IMO
    Yea it'd be great if he had no spells, but he does. Yea, I understand that it hits slightly harder, but the velka rapier is quicker and harder to parry. I'd say for effectiveness they're about even. And the Velka's rapier also fits his stats better.

    But it all comes down to preference at that point.

    So from what I understand maybe an int build with a moonlight greatsword or a velka rapier doesnt really need spells to have a good offense set up? Well I have to say now I've done a character similar to what I was aiming for in my first post (this was pre dlc)any spells I casted in a pvp match they always missed, so I guess I can try tossing out attunment or train myself to cast spells better...

    Also thank you Montante that thread was very informative! c:


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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Mr. Pancake on Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:39 pm

    LunarFog wrote:http://mmdks.com/2kre

    That's how I would do it.

    Velka's rapier is used to take advantage of the high dex and high int. You don't need the moonlight greatsword since the only advantage it has over the velka's rapier is the ranged attack, but you have spells so....

    I dont fully understand how I would use this build. Is this build mainly for casting and a rapier for close range? What concerns me the most is the low end and the dark hand equiped. From what I see you cant do much dodging and if you do you'll have to retreat to regenerate your stamina. Also the dark hand block has horrid stability compared to other shields it'd kill your stamina as well if you took a heavy blow.


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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:47 am

    Mr. Pancake wrote:
    LunarFog wrote:http://mmdks.com/2kre

    That's how I would do it.

    Velka's rapier is used to take advantage of the high dex and high int. You don't need the moonlight greatsword since the only advantage it has over the velka's rapier is the ranged attack, but you have spells so....

    I dont fully understand how I would use this build. Is this build mainly for casting and a rapier for close range? What concerns me the most is the low end and the dark hand equiped. From what I see you cant do much dodging and if you do you'll have to retreat to regenerate your stamina. Also the dark hand block has horrid stability compared to other shields it'd kill your stamina as well if you took a heavy blow.

    For that build in particular, the casting and rapier have an even amount of importance in your fights. Soul spear works best the FARTHER it is from people, and dark bead with 45 dex will work amazing at close range.

    The rapier is for when you want to play it even safer since it has such a quick recovery, fantastic backstab/parry damage, and can block and attack at the same time.

    You won't need that much stamina since you're a caster. If you need to recovery your stamina, then just cast a spell. It's basically like a melee attack that doesn't cost any stamina to perform.

    The Dark hand has horrible stability, but the great think about it is that heavy or even medium hits will actually make you slide backward a few feet, taking you out of the range of melee weapons. Plus it only weighs .5 weight.

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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Jansports on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:06 am

    Learning to actually hit people in PvP with Sorcery is a process, it's not the easiest thing to do. When I said the MLGS doesn't NEED spells I meant it, that weapon kinda does everything. Strong in Melee, good at range. If you learn to unlock and aim the R2s you can punish all sorts of things and because the explosion causes stun you can often (if they're close, for example you unlock and aim at your feet and catch them trying to roll BS you) use the stun to get a BS for yourself, or if you have the Catalyst ready in your offhand a CSS to the face. A couple swings and a single great R2 and the fights over, even against 2,000hp targets.

    How much END you want depends on how much you plan to use spells vs. how much you will use the weapon. 20-25 is where I'd personally want to be if I had velka's or the moonlight spear and planned to use weapon and spells around 50/50. Base END to like 15 (just enough to wear light armor) is fine if you use spells more like 80/20 and of course you'll want 30+ if you plan on using the weapon most and spells less.
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:11 pm


    Also note that the Velma rapier can't stun lock and isn't meant to be spammed. 8 endurance would be enough to hit once and roll away to safety, which is how you should most likely play with a rapier.

    It's true though, the moonlight great sword doesn't need magic since it has 2 different good projectiles as both of its heavy attacks. So with enough repair powder you essentially have infinite spells. That'd be good if you had no attunement or even a little attunement so you don't need to get crystal soul spear and could just stock up on things like homing soul mass

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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Brigade on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:09 pm

    Dex is better with int than strength is, just because it let's you hit the enemy more times with a buff. Buffs will always do the same damage, added on to your weapon's damage, so you want a faster swing speed.
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:15 pm

    In theory maybe, in practice the guy isn't just going to stand there and let you hit him, and heavy weapons can stun lock, not to mention the 900+ damage bs befor the 300 buff damage is applied, twice.


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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by lolface on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:38 pm

    I think dex/int builds are definitely viable.

    The 45 dex does give a noticeable boost in casting speeds of spells like Dark Beads and CSS. It also enables a back up in case your opponent is able to dodge most of your spells: dex-scaling weapons. I personally am a huge fan of Crystal Magic Weapon on your sword of choice (I prefer Uchi or BSS).

    Here is my build, in case you were interested:

    http://mmdks.com/2l6b

    Also, the trick to hitting your spells is not using auto-lock. For example, cast Pursuers/Crystal Homing Soulmass and follow up with Crystal Soul Spear or Dark Beads manually where you think they will dodge. It takes some practice and getting used to, but it will be much more accurate. You can also use Poison Mist --> CSS hehe.

    The entire playstyle of a Dex/Int build is to use sorcery to control your enemies movements (& punish mistakes) and follow up with your weapon of choice. It also allows your attacks to be more diverse, which makes you harder to predict.

    EDIT: Velka's Rapier, as mentioned in this thread, is also a very viable choice, especially if you don't like depending on buffs.


    Last edited by lolface on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:55 pm

    I don't think anyone has said there is anything wrong with a dex/int build.

    All that has been said is casting speed alone isn't enough reason to up dex for sorcerers, what stat/s to up after int for an int build depend on how you're looking to win.


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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by lolface on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:14 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I don't think anyone has said there is anything wrong with a dex/int build.

    All that has been said is casting speed alone isn't enough reason to up dex for sorcerers, what stat/s to up after int for an int build depend on how you're looking to win.

    I was under the impression that OP was attempting to decide between a pure Int caster and a Dex/Int caster so I wanted to give information to help elucidate that choice.
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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by Mr. Pancake on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:32 pm

    LunarFog wrote:
    Also note that the Velma rapier can't stun lock and isn't meant to be spammed. 8 endurance would be enough to hit once and roll away to safety, which is how you should most likely play with a rapier.

    It's true though, the moonlight great sword doesn't need magic since it has 2 different good projectiles as both of its heavy attacks. So with enough repair powder you essentially have infinite spells. That'd be good if you had no attunement or even a little attunement so you don't need to get crystal soul spear and could just stock up on things like homing soul mass

    Thanks Lunar for the info! Now that I see how I can use that build I'm definitely going to try it, its about time I gave a rapier a chance anyway.

    Lolface, I saw the build and I can definitely see myself trying this build, but why have the ascended flame equipped, why have it when you don't have any pyromancy attuned?


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    Re: Confused dex int or just int build...

    Post by lolface on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:47 am

    Mr. Pancake wrote:Lolface, I saw the build and I can definitely see myself trying this build, but why have the ascended flame equipped, why have it when you don't have any pyromancy attuned?

    No reason, I use Power Within for PvE so I just left it there.

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