Philosophy Time

    Share
    avatar
    Encore
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4317
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2013-05-12
    Age : 20
    Location : Bracing myself for the Winds of Change, being supported by the towering pillars of my friends.

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 7:02 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Tehdoomgrasp wrote:A rock by it´s definition can not be omnipotence, if it is it´s no longer a rock and has become "God"
    I'm sure there's a religion out there that worships boulders.

    Now you´re silly.


    _________________
    It is all like the repeating drip of thickening oil...

    Song of Myself
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 24
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:03 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:no teh, you didn't understand. Dibs just misunderstands what omnipotence means... because he's applying the word to a rock silly
    Omnipotence is having power over everything else, hence being "all-powerful".

    A boulder can very easily be omnipotent, whether it be in power itself of by some other meaning.

    Well if you change the definition of omnipotent like that you're changing god's omnipotence too


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 24
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:04 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:no teh, you didn't understand. Dibs just misunderstands what omnipotence means... because he's applying the word to a rock silly
    Omnipotence is having power over everything else, hence being "all-powerful".

    A boulder can very easily be omnipotent, whether it be in power itself of by some other meaning.

    Well if you change the definition of omnipotent like that you're changing god's omnipotence too

    And tolvo i guess, I was jsut being awkward silly (but making a dumb comment doesnt mean tey;re retarded lol)


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Encore
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4317
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2013-05-12
    Age : 20
    Location : Bracing myself for the Winds of Change, being supported by the towering pillars of my friends.

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 7:05 pm

    Who made a dumb comment?


    _________________
    It is all like the repeating drip of thickening oil...

    Song of Myself
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 24
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:06 pm

    noone it was in a hypothetical situation tolvo proposed when talking to dibs


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:06 pm

    How am I changing the definition of omnipotence?

    Our definitions may differ, but they share the same end effect.


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.
    avatar
    Encore
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4317
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2013-05-12
    Age : 20
    Location : Bracing myself for the Winds of Change, being supported by the towering pillars of my friends.

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 7:07 pm

    But that is where you are wrong, Dibs. A small change in anything affects the whole


    _________________
    It is all like the repeating drip of thickening oil...

    Song of Myself
    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 25
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 7:08 pm

    Dibs if you define something in a different way when talking to a person you can't actually discuss it with them, since you can't communicate with them. That's why definitions are generally commonly accepted so people can actually communicate.
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 24
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:08 pm

    Dibsville wrote:How am I changing the definition of omnipotence?

    Our definitions may differ, but they share the same end effect.

    No let me explain.

    By saying the boulder is omnipotent- which is non sentient and can't move, you're defining omnipotence then as being immovable or as the most heavy object.


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:09 pm

    The end effect can be the same even with changes. Just getting there differently will not change the end effect.




    For example, if you drive to school on the same route every day, then one day you drive on a different road. You'll still get to school, just with changes in the way it took to get there.


    Same can be said here, we know what the idea of omnipotence is, but the way we arrive at our conclusions are different.


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 24
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:10 pm

    Now tolvo and dibs have pretty much demonstrated the concept, I'll plug another wiki page.

    What we're experiencing now is the concept called "Language games" I suspect tolvo already knows this, but Teh and Dibs give it a quick read

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language-game

    Dibs I'll ask you to reiterate your last point in a way that makes sense, I didn't understand what you were trying to say. Or at least I hope that was the case


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:11 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:How am I changing the definition of omnipotence?

    Our definitions may differ, but they share the same end effect.

    No let me explain.

    By saying the boulder is omnipotent- which is non sentient and can't move, you're defining omnipotence then as being immovable or as the most heavy object.
    The attributes of the item that holds the title is not what the title means. Just because a boulder holds the title of being omnipotent, that does not mean that omnipotent beings are the same as a boulder.


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.
    avatar
    Encore
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4317
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2013-05-12
    Age : 20
    Location : Bracing myself for the Winds of Change, being supported by the towering pillars of my friends.

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 7:13 pm

    I kind of understand.


    _________________
    It is all like the repeating drip of thickening oil...

    Song of Myself
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:14 pm

    Understand which part.


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.
    avatar
    Encore
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4317
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2013-05-12
    Age : 20
    Location : Bracing myself for the Winds of Change, being supported by the towering pillars of my friends.

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 7:16 pm

    The language game thing...


    _________________
    It is all like the repeating drip of thickening oil...

    Song of Myself
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 24
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:16 pm

    Dibs i wasn't saying that god was the same as a boulder.

    Your point is mixed up. An adjective doesn't change it's entire meaning when applied to something. Yes the extent may be different, say if i called a woman or a cat beautiful, but inherently it's the same priciple.

    What you're proposing is that 'omnipotent' god and the omnipotency of the rock are completely different things, which doesn't really make sense

    but anyways, the definition of omnipotence is "Complete power over all things", now try move it onto a different discussion point


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:17 pm

    I'm proposing that the boulder could be omnipotent, which all three of you have disagreed to.

    In no way do I view the potency of an object any different just because of what it is, which you are saying I am doing.


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 24
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 7:19 pm

    Dibs- it's a rock. A rock cannot create life, a rock cannot talk to moses through a bush on fire. It can't be omnipotent, by plain definition.

    What you're proposing, is just.. I can't put it any other way, it's just incorrect no see


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 25
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 7:20 pm

    It would no longer be a rock is the thing, it would be defined as something else, specifically it would be a god that has the physical form of a giant rock. But it isn't just a giant rock.
    avatar
    Encore
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4317
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2013-05-12
    Age : 20
    Location : Bracing myself for the Winds of Change, being supported by the towering pillars of my friends.

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 7:21 pm

    Tolvo wrote:It would no longer be a rock is the thing, it would be defined as something else, specifically it would be a god that has the physical form of a giant rock. But it isn't just a giant rock.

    I said that...


    _________________
    It is all like the repeating drip of thickening oil...

    Song of Myself
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:22 pm

    You're bound to believing that a boulder can not do those things, but if it were omnipotent then what is stopping it from doing it? Nothing. No forces could stop it as it would have the power to overcome them.

    Let's use the simple "if, then, because" type sample.


    If a boulder were omnipotent, then it could do everything you say it could not, because it has the power to overcome anything that would normally stop it from doing so.


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.
    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 25
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 7:23 pm

    Except for the fact that it is no longer defined as a boulder.
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:23 pm

    Why is that?
    What is stopping it from being a boulder if it can overcome everything that would normally say otherwise?


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.
    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 25
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 7:25 pm

    Because humans decide what words mean, not the fictional god in a hypothetical situation we are not a part of.
    avatar
    Dibsville
    Abyss Dweller
    Abyss Dweller

    Posts : 9377
    Reputation : 134
    Join date : 2013-03-09
    Age : 20
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 7:26 pm

    Just because you say something is one thing, does not mean it is.

    I can also decide that my left hand is actually my right hand. But are things that can prove me wrong.

    If something was all-powerful, then what could possibly prove it wrong?


    _________________
    PSN: Dibsville
    The Exiled of Ariamis; join the cause!
    EarthScraper wrote:OK, now I've just learnt that you never mess with Dibs on a Dark Souls topic, cause he will put you down.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:02 am