Philosophy Time

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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:29 pm

    If he was truly omnipotent, then he would be able to create something that he could not lift, as he would have the power to do so.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:29 pm

    Tolvo wrote:The version of himself he is imagining does not have to be omnipotent.

    But then if he cannot imagine a a boulder that he can't lift when he's all powerful.. doesnt that mean he's not omniscient (all knowing)


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:30 pm

    Dibsville wrote:If he was truly omnipotent, then he would be able to create something that he could not lift, as he would have the power to do so.

    No dibs, that's impossible. think about it. If you're all powerful. How could you create something someone who is all powerful can't lift? It's impossible


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:30 pm

    If he was really both omnipotent and omniscient, he would have both the power and knowledge to make something even higher than him.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:31 pm

    I study philosophy, religions, and I'm frequently coming up with hypothetical situations. See if you can keep up Serious. Well What is it

    It may just mean that it is all knowing, just that the only possible way for it to have a boulder it cannot lift is if it is not omnipotent.

    It's just like, "Can god make a boulder he can't lift?" Yes, easily, he can create a boulder then remove his omnipotence.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:32 pm

    Anyways I need to get back to work, but this is the wiki page on that question:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

    It's basically an endless discussion that can't really be solved (mainly since we don't actually know god's limit (if he exists) )


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:32 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I study philosophy, religions, and I'm frequently coming up with hypothetical situations. See if you can keep up Serious. Well What is it

    It may just mean that it is all knowing, just that the only possible way for it to have a boulder it cannot lift is if it is not omnipotent.

    It's just like, "Can god make a boulder he can't lift?" Yes, easily, he can create a boulder then remove his omnipotence.
    But he would still be able to lift the boulder, because he could return his power in order to lift it. In a way, the answer could be both yes and no.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:34 pm

    No, if he removed his omnipotence he is no longer omnipotent, so he simply can make himself be omnipotent again. The boulder was made by an omnipotent being, and god would no longer be able to return to his former power. He would then be the second strongest thing in existence, with the boulder's mass being the strongest.
    Now without removing his omnipotence, yes it is a paradox.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:35 pm

    But by removing his omnipotence, then the boulder now being the omnipotent one could never be lifted, unless his omnipotence was returned. As he is omniscient, he would have the knowledge to return his omnipotence, but as the boulder is the new omnipotent being, he would both no longer be omnipotent yet could still lift the boulder.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Fri May 31, 2013 6:36 pm

    The answer is 42.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:37 pm

    Just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you can do it. Just like a person without legs, he may know how to become omnipotent again but the only way how may require omnipotence in the first place.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 6:38 pm

    How did you reach the conclusion that the boulder is omnipotent?


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:39 pm

    Like I just said, he may know how to obtain his omnipotence of before, but he will no longer be omnipotent.

    It's a paradox, 2 sides to the coin.

    But then, what happens if the coin lands in the middle?
    Will he both re-obtain his omnipotence yet still not be able to lift the boulder?


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:40 pm

    Tehdoomgrasp wrote:How did you reach the conclusion that the boulder is omnipotent?
    If God created a boulder of extraordinary power, then removed his omnipotence, then the boulder would now be omnipotent, not God.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:40 pm

    Dibs what I just stated isn't a paradox, it's quite logical actually. Please don't throw words around that you do not understand.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:41 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Tehdoomgrasp wrote:How did you reach the conclusion that the boulder is omnipotent?
    If God created a boulder of extraordinary power, then removed his omnipotence, then the boulder would now be omnipotent, not God.

    A boulder can't be omnipotent... it's a rock. It can't create worlds and make life lol

    oh and the question itself is a paradox, for example dibs.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:42 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Tehdoomgrasp wrote:How did you reach the conclusion that the boulder is omnipotent?
    If God created a boulder of extraordinary power, then removed his omnipotence, then the boulder would now be omnipotent, not God.

    A boulder can't be omnipotent... it's a rock. It can't create worlds and make life lol
    That would depend on how God created it. He could give it life, an imagination, its own being.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:43 pm

    Then by definition it wouldn't be a rock anymore.. it would be a golem right? that's what a living rock is?

    But yeah, its a rock, not an omnipotent being.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:43 pm

    By Spongebob's definition, a rock and a boulder are two different things.

    It was never a rock to begin with...


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:45 pm

    A boulder is a type of rock Dibs.
    And yes it would be a golem, or a construct.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:46 pm

    But God would have the power to make it stay as a boulder, being the all-powerful being that he is.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:47 pm

    It would not be a boulder anymore Dibs.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:47 pm

    Why?

    If he was all-powerful, he could make anything a boulder, no matter what it was.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:47 pm

    Dibsville wrote:But God would have the power to make it stay as a boulder, being the all-powerful being that he is.

    There's a reason god called everything different names- so we could differentiate things

    By all means he could have created everything and called it all 'boulder'. But he didn't, and hence, a boulder is just a boulder

    What you're proposing is a paradox there winking


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:48 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:But God would have the power to make it stay as a boulder, being the all-powerful being that he is.

    There's a reason god called everything different names- so we could differentiate things

    By all means he could have created everything and called it all 'boulder'. But he didn't, and hence, a boulder is just a boulder

    What you're proposing is a paradox there winking
    You proposed a paradox too.


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