Philosophy Time

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    Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:00 pm

    Warning: pretty long.

    Topic:
    [15:23:22] Dibsville joined the chat on 5/31/2013, 3:23 pm
    [15:23:29] Insane21 has been disconnected on 5/31/2013, 3:23 pm (session timeout)
    [15:23:29] Tehdoomgrasp : At least I have imagination.
    [15:23:58] Dibsville : an imagination.*
    [15:24:32] Tehdoomgrasp : singular.
    [15:24:48] Tehdoomgrasp : I have many imaginations.
    [15:24:49] Dibsville : You can not own imagination.
    [15:24:56] Dibsville : You can simply have an imagination.
    [15:25:01] Dibsville : And you do not.
    [15:25:16] Tehdoomgrasp : I bought them online.
    [15:25:30] Soris Ice Goldwing : Anyone else feeling like losing their mind?
    [15:25:43] Tehdoomgrasp : I am!
    [15:25:47] Tehdoomgrasp : not.
    [15:26:35] Tehdoomgrasp : You own yourself, therefore you own your imagination.
    [15:26:40] Tehdoomgrasp : Simple logic.
    [15:27:04] Dibsville : You own your imagination, yes.
    [15:27:06] Soris Ice Goldwing : sciddy bibby boob bop!
    [15:27:12] Dibsville : Therefore you own an imagination.
    [15:27:28] Dibsville : You do not control my imagination, thus you do not own imagination.
    [15:27:34] Tehdoomgrasp : "[22:24:49] Dibsville : You can not own imagination."
    [15:28:03] Dibsville : You can not own imagination.
    [15:29:04] Tehdoomgrasp : Imagination is an intangible concept, if you make it a single "thing" you attribute it tangibility. Since imagination is an abstract concept, you cannot say that there is a single "imagination" for each person.
    [15:29:25] Soris Ice Goldwing : You can't define imagination
    [15:29:27] Tehdoomgrasp : I am watching a old episode of "friends"
    [15:29:53] Tehdoomgrasp : Therefore you can not attribute it things. Like making it a single thing.
    [15:30:14] Dibsville : You can, and I just did. There is one imagination to a person, you can not own "imagination", you do not control all imagination as it is. You do not determine my imagination, I do. You can not control "imagination" in its true form, only one of its parts.
    [15:30:23] Mellekilla19 has logged off the chat on 5/31/2013, 3:30 pm
    [15:31:15] Soris Ice Goldwing : I say it is the void of all creation
    [15:31:20] Tehdoomgrasp : There is no "imagination" in it´s true form, since the very concept of imagination is not comprehensible. The idea of imagination is.
    [15:32:35] Soris Ice Goldwing : Is What?
    [15:32:36] SirArchmage has been disconnected on 5/31/2013, 3:32 pm (session timeout)
    [15:32:50] Tehdoomgrasp : Comprehensible
    [15:33:24] Dibsville : Imagination is what we as humans use to create concepts, ideas, and bring things to life.
    [15:33:36] Dibsville : Imagination is the base of everything, without it there would be nothing.
    [15:33:39] Soris Ice Goldwing : Yet it is also hated
    [15:33:44] Dibsville : We have to imagine something before it can be done.
    [15:34:14] Soris Ice Goldwing : But the idea of something is creating difference or change
    [15:34:28] Soris Ice Goldwing : There are those who hate the results
    [15:34:31] Dibsville : There is no ideas without imagination.
    [15:34:37] Dibsville : There can not be an idea of imagination.
    [15:34:41] Dibsville : It has to be there.
    [15:34:49] Soris Ice Goldwing : and try to stop it or bend it to their will
    [15:35:11] Tehdoomgrasp : It was imagination that lead to "The Final Solution"
    [15:35:12] Dibsville : Imagination is something that has been there and will always be there.
    [15:35:22] Dibsville : It can not be an idea, because an idea is a root of an imagination.
    [15:35:35] Dibsville : The idea must be imagined, thus imagination is required.
    [15:35:37] Tehdoomgrasp : How do you know?
    [15:35:38] Dibsville : It's a paradox.
    [15:35:38] Soris Ice Goldwing : It is a thing of neutral power
    [15:35:45] Dibsville : Imagination is required for imagination.
    [15:36:03] Dibsville : Doom.
    [15:36:03] Soris Ice Goldwing : It can be both good and evil, depending on the person
    [15:36:03] Tehdoomgrasp : But the imagination in itself is an idea.
    [15:36:35] Soris Ice Goldwing : What is creation?
    [15:36:37] Dibsville : But the root of imagination is pure.
    [15:36:53] Tehdoomgrasp : Pure what?
    [15:36:54] Dibsville : Creation is a cause of imagination being put forth.
    [15:37:04] Soris Ice Goldwing : then what of the stems?
    [15:37:05] Dibsville : If we imagine something, we can create it.
    [15:37:18] Dibsville : We can not create something without first imagining it.
    [15:37:27] Soris Ice Goldwing : But if we create it. Will it be loved?
    [15:37:36] Dibsville : So imagination must always be here, as it always has, as we could not have created imagination without imagination itself.
    [15:37:37] Tehdoomgrasp : But we created the concept of imagination.
    [15:38:02] Soris Ice Goldwing : But we don't understand it entirely
    [15:38:05] Dibsville : We may have created the concept of imagination, but imagination has always been there..
    [15:38:13] Dibsville : We had to imagine that imagination exists.
    [15:38:41] Soris Ice Goldwing : We needed the mind of curiosity first
    [15:38:45] Dibsville : Imagination could never be fully understood.
    [15:38:54] Dibsville : Because we would have to imagine the possibilities of imagination.
    [15:38:54] KrazykevS10 joined the chat on 5/31/2013, 3:38 pm
    [15:39:09] KrazykevS10 : Imaginationland!
    [15:39:10] Dibsville : So we could never imagine all of them, as each possibility would create a new one to be imagined.
    [15:39:42] Soris Ice Goldwing : A never ending cycle then
    [15:39:50] Dibsville : A paradox.
    [15:40:02] Dibsville : Imagination is imagined.
    [15:40:03] Tehdoomgrasp : The root of imagination is the mind.
    [15:40:07] Dibsville : Imagination created itself.
    [15:40:20] Dibsville : The mind would be useless without imagination.
    [15:40:21] Soris Ice Goldwing : We found imagination from the concept of it, from it
    [15:40:32] Soris Ice Goldwing : we made ideas
    [15:40:34] Tehdoomgrasp : Do you know what the theory of self?
    [15:40:42] KrazykevS10 : Whatever I just walked in on reminds me of the siblings in Bioshock Infinite.
    [15:40:44] Soris Ice Goldwing : and ideas became creation
    [15:40:57] Dibsville : But those ideas were used by imagination.
    [15:41:17] Dibsville : We came up with the concept of imagination to explain the unexplainable.
    [15:41:26] Soris Ice Goldwing : To fund new ones Dibs
    [15:41:41] Dibsville : But the new ideas have to be imagined first.
    [15:41:53] Dibsville : So imagination holds the unimaginable.
    [15:42:16] Tehdoomgrasp : The unimaginable is outside of our imagination by defenition.
    [15:42:29] Soris Ice Goldwing : Recycle Dibs. The cycle repeats itself
    [15:42:30] Dibsville : But what defines that definition.
    [15:42:48] Tehdoomgrasp : Common sense.
    [15:42:53] Dibsville : We have to imagine that the definition of what is outside of our reach is because of that said imagination.
    [15:42:59] Dibsville : Common sense is the root of imagination.
    [15:43:18] Dibsville : It's like the base of the building, you can not imagine something without first having something to go off of.
    [15:43:28] KrazykevS10 : Clearly you are just imagining your imagination.
    [15:43:30] Soris Ice Goldwing : No it is a stem of imagination
    [15:43:34] Dibsville : You can not imagine that a paper will burn if common sense did not tell you that paper was flammable.
    [15:43:48] shadowzninjaz joined the chat on 5/31/2013, 3:43 pm
    [15:43:59] Dibsville : Maybe a stem.
    [15:43:59] Soris Ice Goldwing : But common sense can be lost
    [15:44:07] shadowzninjaz : paper = not flammable
    [15:44:17] Tehdoomgrasp : Shh!
    [15:44:20] Dibsville : Common sense can only be lost to imagination.
    [15:44:21] shadowzninjaz : XD
    [15:44:30] KrazykevS10 : Common sense is only possessed by approximately 10% of humans.
    [15:44:34] Dibsville : If we imagine the contrary, our "base" of ideas is contradicted.
    [15:44:38] shadowzninjaz : gg common sense gg
    [15:44:41] Soris Ice Goldwing : or stupidity
    [15:45:02] Soris Ice Goldwing : And imgination did not take it
    [15:45:05] AnCapaillMor joined the chat on 5/31/2013, 3:45 pm
    [15:45:09] Dibsville : Stupidity is simply a lack of control on the boundaries of common sense.
    [15:45:26] Tehdoomgrasp : Or the lack of control of imagination.
    [15:45:27] Dibsville : Stupidity means you can not grasp the outcome.
    [15:45:28] AnCapaillMor : dear god my host just started lobbing fireballs at queelag
    [15:45:43] KrazykevS10 :
    [15:45:59] Soris Ice Goldwing : Or understand what is going on
    [15:46:19] KrazykevS10 : I liked it better when you guys talked about cats.
    [15:46:22] AnCapaillMor : stupidity is ignorance
    [15:46:45] Tehdoomgrasp : Imagine a stupid person thinking that he can fly with the help of paper wings. He imagined it would work... So perhaps stupidity is common sense lost to imagination.
    [15:46:53] Dibsville : You can understand what is going on.
    [15:46:58] Dibsville : But why it happens can not be imagined.
    [15:46:59] KrazykevS10 : Ignorance is a lack of knowledge,stupidity is making obvious mistakes.
    [15:47:08] Dibsville : What the outcome is can not be known.
    [15:47:08] Soris Ice Goldwing : That is being an idiot cat
    [15:47:24] Fluttershy joined the chat on 5/31/2013, 3:47 pm
    [15:47:26] Dibsville : You can not make an obvious mistake.
    [15:47:36] Dibsville : Rather, you do something on the contrary to what may be right.
    [15:47:40] Dibsville : What is a "mistake".
    [15:47:42] Fluttershy : Sh!t just got real in here.
    [15:48:06] Tehdoomgrasp : idiocy is stupidity taken to the extreme.
    [15:48:13] Dibsville : We can not make a mistake if there is no outcome.
    [15:48:23] Dibsville : Mistake can only be made if something can be split.
    [15:48:24] KrazykevS10 : A mistake is an action with only negative outcome.
    [15:48:26] Fluttershy : What are we talking about?
    [15:48:30] Soris Ice Goldwing : What about the process then?
    [15:48:31] Dibsville : There have to be two sides to a decision.
    [15:48:34] KrazykevS10 : Porn.
    [15:48:34] Dibsville : Like flipping a coin.
    [15:48:42] Dibsville : But maybe the coin will land on the middle.
    [15:48:54] Dibsville : Will that be a mistake, an outcome.
    [15:49:03] Dibsville : Or will it simply be the stop in the decision.
    [15:49:04] AnCapaillMor : name=dibsville, speciality=builds and philosophy
    [15:49:11] KrazykevS10 : If I shot myself in the foot,there is no other side to the coin.
    [15:49:17] AnCapaillMor : and tom and jerry
    [15:49:21] Fluttershy : Did someone get banned?
    [15:49:24] Dibsville : You might have missed.
    [15:49:25] KrazykevS10 : It would be a mistake and hurt a lot.
    [15:49:26] Tehdoomgrasp : It´s an outcome, the mistake would be if he would fail to flip the coin.
    [15:49:35] Dibsville : It would not be a mistake.
    [15:49:44] Dibsville : Your choice was to shoot yourself in the foot.
    [15:49:51] Dibsville : If you did that, you would not have made a mistake.
    [15:49:52] Tehdoomgrasp : Because that is the unexpected unknowable "mistake"
    [15:50:03] Dibsville : Past judgement will have told you it may have been the wrong decision.
    [15:50:09] Dibsville : But by no means would it be a mistake.


    Last edited by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edited for various reasons.)


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Elifia on Fri May 31, 2013 6:04 pm

    So, where's the philosophy? All I see is some bickering back and forth about the definition of certain words. Which btw can easily be found in a dictionary.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:04 pm

    That's what philosophy is.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:06 pm

    Dibsville wrote:That's what philosophy is.

    Are you serious?

    thats a pretty uneducated statement...

    Philosophy is about theories, ideas and principles. Rather than asking what, you ask why.

    Why do people enjoy this? Why is our life like that? It's endless questions and discussion


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:06 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:That's what philosophy is.

    Are you serious?

    As someone personally interested in philosophy I find that a pretty ignorant comment lol!
    Then explain what imagination is.
    Counter my examples with your own. Prove your philosophy of it.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Elifia on Fri May 31, 2013 6:08 pm

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imagination

    1
    : the act or power of forming a mental image of something not present to the senses or never before wholly perceived in reality
    2
    a : creative ability
    b : ability to confront and deal with a problem : resourcefulness
    c : the thinking or active mind : interest
    3
    a : a creation of the mind; especially : an idealized or poetic creation
    b : fanciful or empty assumption

    Medical Definition of IMAGINATION

    : an act or process of forming a conscious idea or mental image of something never before wholly perceived in reality by the one forming the images (as through a synthesis of remembered elements of previous sensory experiences or ideas as modified by unconscious defense mechanisms); also : the ability or gift of forming such conscious ideas or mental images especially for the purposes of artistic or intellectual creation


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 6:08 pm

    Philosophy is different from person to another.

    Nah, it´s something defineable.


    Last edited by Tehdoomgrasp on Fri May 31, 2013 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:09 pm

    Elifia wrote:http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imagination

    1
    : the act or power of forming a mental image of something not present to the senses or never before wholly perceived in reality
    2
    a : creative ability
    b : ability to confront and deal with a problem : resourcefulness
    c : the thinking or active mind : interest
    3
    a : a creation of the mind; especially : an idealized or poetic creation
    b : fanciful or empty assumption

    Medical Definition of IMAGINATION

    : an act or process of forming a conscious idea or mental image of something never before wholly perceived in reality by the one forming the images (as through a synthesis of remembered elements of previous sensory experiences or ideas as modified by unconscious defense mechanisms); also : the ability or gift of forming such conscious ideas or mental images especially for the purposes of artistic or intellectual creation
    Now explain why we imagine things.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:10 pm

    Imagination...

    Imagination is pretty much the part of your brain that uses subconscious thoughts, memories, principles and so forth to think up something something. It can be brand new, or simply and old idea present in your head. It can be channeled in many ways, and used in a variety of things.

    Imagination is a central pillar in the process of creativity.


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:13 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:11 pm

    Look Skyward

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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Encore on Fri May 31, 2013 6:12 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Imagination...

    Imagination is pretty much the part of your brain that uses subconscious thoughts, memories, principles and so forth to think up something something. It can be brand new, or simply and old idea present in your head. It can be channeled in many ways, and used in a variety of things.

    Imagination is a central pillar in the process of creativity.

    I agree with this.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:12 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Imagination...

    Imagination is pretty much the part of your brain that uses subconscious thoughts, memories, principles and so forth to think up something something. It can be brand new, or simply and old idea present in your head. It can be channeled in many ways, and used in a variety of things.

    Imagination is a central pillar in the process of creativity.
    Why is imagination the part of creativity, though?

    We could not possibly have creativity without imagination. If we need imagination to create things, and those things we create are made out of imagination, then why is it that creativity is the foundation of imagination.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Fri May 31, 2013 6:12 pm

    Serious is spot on with that.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:14 pm

    As to why?

    Imagination is generally driven by our subconscious desires, emotions and longings. If you care about people you will imagine it. If you wish for a different life, you can imagine an adventure in your head. If you wish for bacon, low and behold, you'll imagine it in your head.

    Imagination is centred around want and wonder. It can be ponderous, but also remembering

    Also dibs in reference to your question- I said creativity needed imagination, not the other way around. You can have imagination without being creative, but you cant be creative without imagination

    Also just saying, but I'm not feeling much of a philosophical vibe going on here, lol


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:18 pm

    So is this supposed to be about philosophy, or Linguistics?
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:20 pm

    It's about imagination. Shrug


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:21 pm

    Im not sure really. It seems like game over though there's not much you can talk about with imagination.. unless you start with interesting questions about imagining.

    So. Hypothetically, can God imagine a boulder that he couldn't hold up?


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:22 pm

    Depends on if the god in the concept can imagine, is or is not all powerful. If all powerful yes, it can just imagine a boulder more powerful then.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:23 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Im not sure really. It seems like game over though there's not much you can talk about with imagination.. unless you start with interesting questions about imagining.

    So. Hypothetically, can God imagine a boulder that he couldn't hold up?
    He would have to imagine to the contrary first. If he imagined himself being able to hold up any boulder, then he can imagine one that he could not hold up. There has to be two sides to the choice.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:24 pm

    But surely it's impossible for him to imagine one he can't hold up, since he's omnipotent?


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:25 pm

    If he is omnipotent he has no limitations meaning he distinctly can. Meaning his imaging would have no limitations if he can imagine things.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Dibsville on Fri May 31, 2013 6:26 pm

    But if he's omnipotent, then he would be able to create something even stronger.


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:28 pm

    Dibsville wrote:But if he's omnipotent, then he would be able to create something even stronger.

    Surely though he couldn't create something stronger, as by definition of being omnipotent he is ALL POWERFUL- he is weaker than nothing


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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Tolvo on Fri May 31, 2013 6:28 pm

    The version of himself he is imagining does not have to be omnipotent.
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    Re: Philosophy Time

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri May 31, 2013 6:29 pm

    Tolvo wrote:If he is omnipotent he has no limitations meaning he distinctly can. Meaning his imaging would have no limitations if he can imagine things.

    I'm confused by this statement silly


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    Re: Philosophy Time

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