Weapon upgrades for PvP

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    micii
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    Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:02 pm

    My stats are

    Pyro
    120

    Vit-40
    Att-14
    End-40
    Stre-25
    Dex-20
    Res-BASE
    Int-44
    Faith-BASE

    Besides my lightning zweigh and claymore, what other upgrades (occult,divine,chaos,etc) could i use efficiently ? I also use queelaags fury sword and Moonlight GS to mess around, but im working on a Man serpent GS now and not sure what i want to do with it, lightning or +15 ?

    would lightning be best if i wanted to use katanas since my Dex is low ?
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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by Liff Daddy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:11 pm

    MSGS with CMW? Which would be +15. You could also enchant your katanas, get multiple Uchi's if you can and try out each path until you find one you love.


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:20 pm

    Liff Daddy wrote:MSGS with CMW? Which would be +15. You could also enchant your katanas, get multiple Uchi's if you can and try out each path until you find one you love.

    good idea for the MSGS, completely forgot about CMW. would you say ide be better off going +!5 over lightning for it though ?

    And for the katanas, whats the best for pvp ? My guess would be washing pole for the range but im new to PvP
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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by Liff Daddy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:37 pm

    I haven't really used the katanas that much, but I see all the katanas used pretty frequently. The Uchi and the Washing Pole have the same moveset, so you gotta see which fits better for you. The Iaito has a different moveset that a lot of people seem to prefer, but it suffers from shorter range.

    And I'd go +15 with your first MSGS. But what I would do is go for multiple copies of the same weapon that I like and try different upgrade paths to see what I like most. But I happen to be a fan of buffing, and while I haven't used CMW yet I have been rocked by it many times, so I'd recommend it.


    Last edited by Liff Daddy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : derped)


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:16 am

    With that Int, definitely go +15 and CMW. No need to even discuss this further!

    You can keep a lightning weapon as backup for when your CMW wears off. Otherwise, it doesn't even compare.


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:15 am

    BLA1NE wrote:With that Int, definitely go +15 and CMW. No need to even discuss this further!

    You can keep a lightning weapon as backup for when your CMW wears off. Otherwise, it doesn't even compare.

    Looks like ill give this a go,

    what would you say for katanas ? i also have this flamberge&scythe sitting around not sure what to do, i wanna make it chaos to twink around but not sure if i should even waste my time.

    Also whats the best armor combination for overall speed and protection, right now i can still roll smoothly and my phys. defence is @ 392, but im wearing havels ring to support it.

    Still debating whether or not i want to make a Fai/Dex build so i can actually make some use of the katanas or other dex based weapons

    hows this look ?

    Cleric

    120


    Vit-40
    Att-14
    End-30
    Stre-16
    Dex-33
    Res-BASE
    Int-BASE
    Faith-50

    Any suggestions, I was thinking drop 2 from Stre, to add to Dex but will it really make a difference ? I wanted 50 Faith so i can use the sunlight spear, but if its obsolete for pvp i guess i could drop and dump some more points into endurance or more dex
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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:55 am

    all the lightning spear miracles are just a bit too slow for regular use in pvp... stop at 30 or 40, get dex to 40 for max effect maybe a few more attunement all else should go to end.


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:57 pm

    For any buff builds, +15 or Crystal +5 are the way to go. The other paths (Enchanted and Magic) are really weak, comparatively.

    I would consider changing Faith to 43 and Dex to 40. You lose 3 AR points, but you gain increased physical AR, especially when your buff runs out.


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:56 pm

    I'll warn you in advance, I'm feeling verbose today! So let's get to it:

    Katanas are great weapons! Maybe a little too good... winking They make PvE a breeze, and have gotten themselves a bit of a negative rep in PvP since they're so good. But, at the end of the day, people will hate any weapon you're using if you beat them, so go for it. Although, honestly, the Washing Pole is a bit overkill. It's got ridiculous speed, reach and, when buffed, damage too. That's why I don't use it--I don't need anyone to send me hatemail to know this one is at least a bit OP. But if anyone complains to you for using the Uchi or Iaito, just ignore them.

    Chaos? Go for it. It's an elemental upgrade like Fire and Lightning, so it'll make a good backup weapon to switch to when your buff wears off. Chaos > Fire, so really you should only concern yourself between Chaos or Lightning. In numbers, Chaos has a stronger damage rating, but it's real damage will depend on your opponent's armor, and most have more fire defense than lightning. This means that Lightning is actually probably stronger than Chaos... But at the end of the day, an elemental weapon is an elemental weapon. Pick whichever one, make it your back-up weapon, and forget about it! The only real differentiating factor is whether you prefer the look of fire or lightning when you strike your opponent with it! Most people get fed up with Lightning faster, so they'll go Chaos just so they don't see the lightning anymore. silly

    Flamberge and Scythe are both good weapons. Flamberge has the same moveset as the claymore, a very competent one, with the added bleeding auxiliary effect. It has slightly higher stats requirements than the Claymore and deals a tiny bit less damage, and with its swing speed you won't really get any benefit out of the bleeding. But for the tiny difference in damage, you may as well go for the Flamberge if only because it's not a claymore! As for the scythe (scythe or great scythe? Go for the latter), it's got a good moveset, and if you know how you can take advantage of its generous dead angles attacks (attack an enemy, not dead on but from the sides of your swing range, at such an angle and it'll bypass their shield--you'll get full damage on them even though they're blocking). With buffing, it'll also deal great damage. Problem is, it's an easy weapon to parry. The majority of your opponents won't know how to parry, but it's worth taking into consideration that some will. But in that case, if you survive the first parry, you could always change to a backup weapon.

    Armor is a very complicated question. There is no end-all best armor in Dark Souls, let alone mix. The possible armor combinations are practically endless, they're all viable, and they're dependent on a lot of factors: how much End you have, what rings you have equipped, what equip weight % you want to be at, how much poise you want, and how much defense you can live without. That's why I can't really answer that question for you, you'll have to decide it yourself! Myself, I like to make characters with low End, 25% equip weight, and all I care about is poise, not defense. So I equip Havel's Gloves, Kirk's legs, Wolf Ring, and that's it. 77 poise, about 17 equip weight, little defense. Not knowing your preferences, I can give you a few tips:

    - Havel's equipment has the best Poise/ Weight of all armors. Only they're non upgradable, so they'll have less defense than other armors of the same weight (Smough's, Giant's). Equip parts of Havel's gear to boost your poise.

    - Light armors have no poise, but for very little weight they can give you great boosts in defense. Check out the Maiden or Dingy sets, fully upgraded, for best overall defense/ weight (Maiden's Robe +10, for 2 weight, giver 46 defense--23 def/ lbs!). Also, check out the skirts and dress leg pieces for excellent def/ weight (although, personally, I don't have any characters who wear skirts! Not my thing...).

    - Round off the rest with Med Armor. If you're missing a bit of poise to reach your goal, or you have only so much equip weight left, check out this class to round off your numbers. I especially like the Dark set for great overall poise and defense/ weight. If you can spare a tiny bit extra weight, Kirk's set is practically the same as the Dark set, only it has the added benefit of damaging enemies when you roll into them. The damage is forgettable, but it does stagger them, which is a huge advantage coming from armor (warning: rolling into some enemies, with this set, will stagger YOU! So be careful what you roll into).

    Finally, Stats are also a very personal matter. They're so dependent on your own play style that asking others what they think your stats should be isn't a very good idea. My post's long enough already, so I won't comment on your stats. But, instead, I'll direct you to a guide I wrote on planning your own stats. I hope it helps (I'm sure it will winking):

    http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Character+Building+for+Dummies


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:09 pm

    reim0027 wrote:For any buff builds, +15 or Crystal +5 are the way to go. The other paths (Enchanted and Magic) are really weak, comparatively.

    I would consider changing Faith to 43 and Dex to 40. You lose 3 AR points, but you gain increased physical AR, especially when your buff runs out.

    any reason for 43 ?

    What if i dropped it down a bit and put more into End ?
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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:11 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:I'll warn you in advance, I'm feeling verbose today! So let's get to it:

    Katanas are great weapons! Maybe a little too good... winking They make PvE a breeze, and have gotten themselves a bit of a negative rep in PvP since they're so good. But, at the end of the day, people will hate any weapon you're using if you beat them, so go for it. Although, honestly, the Washing Pole is a bit overkill. It's got ridiculous speed, reach and, when buffed, damage too. That's why I don't use it--I don't need anyone to send me hatemail to know this one is at least a bit OP. But if anyone complains to you for using the Uchi or Iaito, just ignore them.

    Chaos? Go for it. It's an elemental upgrade like Fire and Lightning, so it'll make a good backup weapon to switch to when your buff wears off. Chaos > Fire, so really you should only concern yourself between Chaos or Lightning. In numbers, Chaos has a stronger damage rating, but it's real damage will depend on your opponent's armor, and most have more fire defense than lightning. This means that Lightning is actually probably stronger than Chaos... But at the end of the day, an elemental weapon is an elemental weapon. Pick whichever one, make it your back-up weapon, and forget about it! The only real differentiating factor is whether you prefer the look of fire or lightning when you strike your opponent with it! Most people get fed up with Lightning faster, so they'll go Chaos just so they don't see the lightning anymore. silly

    Flamberge and Scythe are both good weapons. Flamberge has the same moveset as the claymore, a very competent one, with the added bleeding auxiliary effect. It has slightly higher stats requirements than the Claymore and deals a tiny bit less damage, and with its swing speed you won't really get any benefit out of the bleeding. But for the tiny difference in damage, you may as well go for the Flamberge if only because it's not a claymore! As for the scythe (scythe or great scythe? Go for the latter), it's got a good moveset, and if you know how you can take advantage of its generous dead angles attacks (attack an enemy, not dead on but from the sides of your swing range, at such an angle and it'll bypass their shield--you'll get full damage on them even though they're blocking). With buffing, it'll also deal great damage. Problem is, it's an easy weapon to parry. The majority of your opponents won't know how to parry, but it's worth taking into consideration that some will. But in that case, if you survive the first parry, you could always change to a backup weapon.

    Armor is a very complicated question. There is no end-all best armor in Dark Souls, let alone mix. The possible armor combinations are practically endless, they're all viable, and they're dependent on a lot of factors: how much End you have, what rings you have equipped, what equip weight % you want to be at, how much poise you want, and how much defense you can live without. That's why I can't really answer that question for you, you'll have to decide it yourself! Myself, I like to make characters with low End, 25% equip weight, and all I care about is poise, not defense. So I equip Havel's Gloves, Kirk's legs, Wolf Ring, and that's it. 77 poise, about 17 equip weight, little defense. Not knowing your preferences, I can give you a few tips:

    - Havel's equipment has the best Poise/ Weight of all armors. Only they're non upgradable, so they'll have less defense than other armors of the same weight (Smough's, Giant's). Equip parts of Havel's gear to boost your poise.

    - Light armors have no poise, but for very little weight they can give you great boosts in defense. Check out the Maiden or Dingy sets, fully upgraded, for best overall defense/ weight (Maiden's Robe +10, for 2 weight, giver 46 defense--23 def/ lbs!). Also, check out the skirts and dress leg pieces for excellent def/ weight (although, personally, I don't have any characters who wear skirts! Not my thing...).

    - Round off the rest with Med Armor. If you're missing a bit of poise to reach your goal, or you have only so much equip weight left, check out this class to round off your numbers. I especially like the Dark set for great overall poise and defense/ weight. If you can spare a tiny bit extra weight, Kirk's set is practically the same as the Dark set, only it has the added benefit of damaging enemies when you roll into them. The damage is forgettable, but it does stagger them, which is a huge advantage coming from armor (warning: rolling into some enemies, with this set, will stagger YOU! So be careful what you roll into).

    Finally, Stats are also a very personal matter. They're so dependent on your own play style that asking others what they think your stats should be isn't a very good idea. My post's long enough already, so I won't comment on your stats. But, instead, I'll direct you to a guide I wrote on planning your own stats. I hope it helps (I'm sure it will winking):

    http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Character+Building+for+Dummies

    thanks this is really helpful

    im just gonna leave the flamberge and invest into the scythe i guess, im gonna go ahead an assume divine/occult is best for PvE ?

    and for the armor, i never know which ones will benefit me the most if i upgrade them.
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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:16 pm

    Nah, Divine and Occult aren't very good. With their scaling, it takes a lot of stats investment for them to catch up to elemental upgrades, if ever. The only advantage to divine is to kill skeletons in the Catacombs before you've killed all the necromancers. After that, your divine weapon isn't much use anymore. I'd say have a divine weapon for when you're clearing out the catacombs, but other than that stick to elemental or regular and buff.

    Flamberge has a really good moveset, by the way. Try it a bit before you dismiss it!

    And armor, to be honest, isn't all that important whether you pick one set or another. When they're fully upgraded, the difference between one or the other isn't very significant (especially when you don't care about defense, like me...). The only differences between one set or another, when fully upgraded, are: a bit more or less defense, a bit more or less poise, a bit more or less weight. So don't worry about it so much, they're very minor differences. If it makes it easier, I prefer to base my choices on weight and poise first, and let defense sort itself out (which, like I said, should end up relatively similar anyways, if all your pieces are upgraded the same). Just a note, though: watch out for sets that have inherent properties. The Shadow set, for example, has increased poison and bleed resistance. Since all the sets are balanced for pros and cons, this means the Shadow set was docked in defense for its ailment resistant properties. So if a set has a pro that you don't care for, pick another one, otherwise you'll have lowered defense for a pro you don't want.


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:13 pm

    micii wrote:
    reim0027 wrote:For any buff builds, +15 or Crystal +5 are the way to go. The other paths (Enchanted and Magic) are really weak, comparatively.

    I would consider changing Faith to 43 and Dex to 40. You lose 3 AR points, but you gain increased physical AR, especially when your buff runs out.

    any reason for 43 ?

    What if i dropped it down a bit and put more into End ?

    The 43 was to keep you at the same SL: increase dex by 7, decrease faith by 7.


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:49 am

    The bit about the armor makes sense, so essentially I can use whatever looks cool, any way I can see how much poise is needed to take each hit?
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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:29 pm

    mmghouse wrote:Thanks to EWGF for testing these so thoroughly.

    Edit: took the list outside the quotebox so it's not as annoying to read.

    Afai quoting EWGF wrote:See below this quotebox for what was really quoted


    76 poise (51 for 1-handed resists):
    All Ultra Greatswords 2h R1s
    All Great Axes 2h R1s
    All Great Blunt 2h R1s

    53 poise (36 for 1-handed resists):
    All Great Asian Swords 2h R1s (apparently I had this wrong in my first Poise test, and rated at 55, that was the 55 Poise for the metagame)
    All Great Swords 2h R1s
    All 1-handed Blunts 2h R1s
    All 1-handed Axes 2h R1s

    31 poise (21 for 1-handed resists):
    All Asian Sword 2h R1s (and R2 in the case of Shotel)
    All 1-handed Sword 2h R1s
    All Katana 2h R1s (including Washing Pole)
    All Great Scythe 2h R1/R2s
    All Whip 2h R1s
    All Large Spear (Partisan/Pike) 2h R1s
    All Small Spear (Silver Spear/Winged Spear) 2h R1s
    All Halberd/Pole 2h R1s (figured this would have been 53, but it wasn't).

    8 poise (6 poise for 1-hand resists, or Fist Weapons):
    All Rapier 2h R1s
    All Dagger 2h R1s
    All Fist Weapons R1s (although this is actually 6 since you can't 2-hand a Fist Weapon)


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:08 pm

    so really theres no point in going past 76 for poise ? or does it continue and let you take even more hits ?
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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by BLA1NE on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:08 pm

    More consecutive hits, yes. More poise is always better--you just need to draw the line somewhere! I like 76.


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    Re: Weapon upgrades for PvP

    Post by micii on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:15 pm

    awesome thanks alot guys, probably gonna finish the game this weekend and hop online.

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