A different take on Lautrec

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    A different take on Lautrec

    Post by dragonblade on Tue May 28, 2013 6:56 pm

    I've been thinking a lot about Lautrec and why he does the things that he does. One of the more popular theories is that Lautrec is killing fire keepers and harvesting humanity for the goddess Fina. But why would a goddess who draws her power from the fire see it extinguished with the death of fire keepers and the accumulation of the dark soul.

    Thinking about his armor set description a new idea began to emerge. One piece of the description reads "During his solitude, he forsook everything, for he believed in the goddess's love for him." The interesting part is that they use the past tense of "believe". Could it be that Lautrec no longer feels this way? There may have been a falling out between Lautrec and Fina; she may have wronged him in some way and in his anger he decided to take revenge upon her by destroying her very way of life. This would explain why he kills fire keepers but never uses them, why he left the black eyed orb at the fire keepers dead body to lure undead to him and harvest their humanity.

    Another possibility is that the gods had turned on Fina and possibly killed her and Lautrec is actually taking vengeance on them in her name.



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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Dibsville on Tue May 28, 2013 7:13 pm

    He also mentions he has some "Unfinished business" in Anor Londo at one point. It's possible that the goddess Fina resides here, so he is going there to act out his revenge. If this is true, killing the Firekeeper was most likely to anger Fina.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue May 28, 2013 9:00 pm

    I think that's a very logical take on Lautrec. I'm curious as to how he got one of the Sealers on his side.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Dibsville on Tue May 28, 2013 9:04 pm

    The Sealer could have been pressured or manipulated.
    We don't know that the Sealer is on Laurtrec's side on his own accord.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by dragonblade on Wed May 29, 2013 1:12 am

    Dibsville wrote:He also mentions he has some "Unfinished business" in Anor Londo at one point. It's possible that the goddess Fina resides here, so he is going there to act out his revenge. If this is true, killing the Firekeeper was most likely to anger Fina.

    I don't think Fina is in anor londo since Gywdolin is said to be the last diety in the city


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by dragonblade on Wed May 29, 2013 1:15 am

    Doesn't he ask the sealer and the random knight if they agree with his ideals when you invade him. I think they are just like minded people. I mean the sealer was no saint since he had already abandoned ingward. Maybe he was just in it for the humanity


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Wed May 29, 2013 1:39 am

    considering fina is a very... ambivalent goddess she or maybe one of her followers may have done something to piss off gwyndolin and he destoyed her, lautrecs response to this was to commit as much sin as possible to lure darkmoons to his world where he could reap his revenge and also gather data on where to find gwyndolin so as to cut him down to avenge his fallen lady. The black eye orb was likely not part of his calculations but instead an unaccounted for variable. His companions are likely those who have become disillusioned with the gods of anorlondo, considering the amount of work the sealers did on the "god's" account the fact that they in truth abandoned mankind would be enough to turn many men against the one who perpetrated such deception. The warrior may simply be an atheist or perhaps a darkwraith hired on by lautrec.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by samster628 on Wed May 29, 2013 5:14 am

    Some good ideas here backed up with logic. I think lutrec is still definatly loyal to fina though as he still wears her ring and armor symbolising her favor. If i hated someone i would not wear their coulours. I think he knows that fina loves him and so swaggers about doing whatever he wants thinking 'you cant touch me i have a godess on my side'. He is clearly after humanity as he carries quite a lot of it (and he killed the firekeeper for humanity). In addition he hints about being a serial killer after humanity. It may be that he wants it for something or prehaps he is keeping it for himself. That would explain his little posse as a group of people after humanity from everyone else. Doesnt really explain why he decided to go to anor londo though.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Latitoast on Wed May 29, 2013 5:29 am

    Here's one:

    Humanity prevents you from going hollow, as we can see when we reverse our hollowing at a Bonfire. Lautrec reasonably becomes addicted to Humanity, his hunger for it will never be sated. He kills the Firekeeper in hopes of getting people to invade his world, so he can kill them and get more humanity from them. Then he himself can use the Firekeeper's Soul to get even more Humanity. He targets Anastacia because she is helpless, he probably doesn't kill the Knightess because of how dangerous she appears to be.

    In the end, Lautrec is as addicted to humanity as a fat guy is addicted to junk food.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by dragonblade on Wed May 29, 2013 11:42 am

    He could just be in it for humanity but I think its more than that. I mean he never actually uses the firekeeper soul or any other humanity. He just stockpiles it.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Shkar on Wed May 29, 2013 10:24 pm

    Nobody ever said Lautrec wasn't out to link/kill the fire. It's a possibility that I don't think I've seen brought up before.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by dragonblade on Thu May 30, 2013 1:10 am

    On a side note in Lautrec's armor description it says "During his solitude, he forsook everything, for he believed in the goddess's love for him." Does anyone know anything about this solitude thats being described? It kinda sounds like a 40 days in the desert type of thing but who knows.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Thu May 30, 2013 7:36 am

    I can't say if he's trying to lure darkmoons into his world or not. But, he'd be pretty foolish to do so for humanity, however; slain darkmoons leave no humanity.

    I am prepared to make the arguement that the caster with him is not a sealer, though. We invade Lautrec's world as we would another human's and his two lackeys both appear as white phantoms. I think it's fair to presume that Lautrec has just summoned a guy who got the crimson set from Blighttown in his own world. As a side note; I can't help but to think that in NG+ Lautrec must be pretty pissed that this guy doesn't have any crystal or dark magic.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by BrotherBob on Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:13 am

    Why does he stockpile Humanity instead of consuming it for soft Humanities? Maybe he summoned those two phantoms for some trading. After all, Fire Keeper's Souls, RoFaPs, and Humanities are some big-ticket items. It would also explain why they don't react if you snipe them from afar; they're too busy navigating the menus to notice.

    In all honesty, it makes sense that he isn't really after Humanity. Perhaps he is after souls, which might explain the ganking and him asking you to pay for his "tip". The fact that he doesn't pursue Reah (despite knowing about her misfortune) or attack Petrus and the Crestfallen Warrior might support the idea that the Humanities and Fire Keeper's Soul (and the sin accumulated) are just bait for DMBs. This might indicate some quarrel with Gwyndolin. I speculate the following... He already has two summons ready in the hall before the bosses Ornstein and Smough. If that was the boss he was targeting, he wouldn't be loitering there. Instead, he must be planning to attack the other boss, Gwyndolin.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by dragonblade on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:14 am

    BrotherBob wrote:
    In all honesty, it makes sense that he isn't really after Humanity. Perhaps he is after souls, which might explain the ganking and him asking you to pay for his "tip". The fact that he doesn't pursue Reah (despite knowing about her misfortune) or attack Petrus and the Crestfallen Warrior might support the idea that the Humanities and Fire Keeper's Soul (and the sin accumulated) are just bait for DMBs. This might indicate some quarrel with Gwyndolin. I speculate the following... He already has two summons ready in the hall before the bosses Ornstein and Smough. If that was the boss he was targeting, he wouldn't be loitering there. Instead, he must be planning to attack the other boss, Gwyndolin.

      Yeah I realized that after I posted. Lautrec doesn't get any humanity from this endeavor so it looks like he's doing this to weaken gwyndolin's forces, the darkmoon blades. The reason could range anywhere from revenge to just no liking the guy


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Scurrilous Straggler on Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:06 pm

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:I can't say if he's trying to lure darkmoons into his world or not. But, he'd be pretty foolish to do so for humanity, however; slain darkmoons leave no humanity.

    I am prepared to make the arguement that the caster with him is not a sealer, though. We invade Lautrec's world as we would another human's and his two lackeys both appear as white phantoms. I think it's fair to presume that Lautrec has just summoned a guy who got the crimson set from Blighttown in his own world. As a side note; I can't help but to think that in NG+ Lautrec must be pretty pissed that this guy doesn't have any crystal or dark magic.

     I agree that the caster with him isn't a Sealer. We find a Sealer's set of armour and some people wear it... that doesn't make us a Sealer. Could just be that he's wearing the Sealer's armour.

    As for Lautrec.. I think Gwynevere is the goddess Fina and also that Lautrec is Gwyns first son (I'm not getting into why in this thread) and mistook Fina's love for him as romantic when she had intended it as familial. This angered him and he went insane.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Sanhedrim on Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:08 pm

    There was an older theory somewhere around here that went something like this:

    -> Fina is somehow cursed
    -> The Sealers can lift curses using humanity
    -> A curse that affects a goddess has to be truly powerful
    -> Thus lifting it requires lots and lots of humanity

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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by BrotherBob on Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:26 am

    Sanhedrim wrote:There was an older theory somewhere around here that went something like this:

    -> Fina is somehow cursed
    -> The Sealers can lift curses using humanity
    -> A curse that affects a goddess has to be truly powerful
    -> Thus lifting it requires lots and lots of humanity
    That certainly explains why he stockpiles Humanity. The problem is that he doesn't seem to be after "lots and lots of humanity". He stays in Anor Londo waiting to be invaded, an activity that cannot possibly generate hard Humanity. While at Firelink Shrine, he doesn't assault any of the NPCs (Crestfallen Warrior, Petrus, etc.) for their Humanity. Despite knowing of Reah's misfortune, he doesn't even head near the Tomb of the Giants to try to take her Humanity. There seem to be some holes in the theory, but it could still be correct. It is possible that the developers didn't want to have him kill those NPCs because it could severely diminish the subplots/side-quests.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by homelessguy on Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:54 pm

    I think Lautrec doing fire keepers a favour by killing them they all are in sad states and as a man who been like that I feel he feels bad for them and hides it in a tough guy act he does not even kill reah which he could have seeing as he got to anor londo and past o&s boss room he putting them out of the misery he also feels bad when u invade his world from deleted lines where he says stuff about not wanting to hurt u and wonders why u of all people would do this
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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by xSomax on Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:20 pm

    brother, keep in mind that crestfallen, petrus, tomb, all of these carry heavy risks.  crestfallen is quite a slugger just sittin there at firelink, and once he's hollow he's quite powerful. not worth the humanity he'd get. same with petrus. petrus is a renowned warrior cleric, skilled in quite a few miracles, especially force which i must say lautrec doesn't like. take into account petrus' shady past and motivations, and its just not worth it.and ToG? really? i'd say *** going into the catacombs. too many traps, bone-wheel skellies, pinwheel, giant skellies, skellie dogs, skellie towers, patches, all just for reah? how bout no. in comparison getting to anor londo is a cakewalk. the chosen undead clears a lot of it for him after all, and the traps in sens are a joke without the snakes and ****. theres really no saying who actually got there first though. i'm under the impression that lautrec followed you to anor londo, and just walked around with his bro's from there, since he had a goddess' protection. while you were fighting **** he was planning out whatever he was planning, un-hindered. even if he didn't follow you, he still had to wait for you to open the gate to sens. while you were messing around down there trying to get out of blight town or whatever, he could have easily gotten to anor londo, especially with fina's protection. thats all just conjecture though


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:46 pm

    xSomax wrote:patches, all just for reah?
    Well in his dialogue he mentions Patches rubs him up the wrong way implying he fell for one of Patches traps and decided to get the *** out of the Catacombs so maybe he did go for Rhea but Patches indirectly saved her, or he wanted the right of kindling.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:47 pm

    Double post sorry


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:50 pm

    He also doesn't go after the Anor Londo Firekeeper, Quite odd.

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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by xSomax on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:38 am

    he doesn't go after the AL for the same reasons. she's obviously armed and ready. no one in their right mind attacks someone like that. conversely, maybe she's armed and ready because lautrec went ahead of you and tried it. there are much easier ways to get humanity in DS. anastasia was quite possibly the easiest. but the others, they are all very much so harder. heck he helps you a couple times, likely the only reason he doesn't straight kill you to begin with. in other words, he realizes your skill, and uses it for free humanity. once you lose your usefulness though, he tries to kill you.  basically, when the gain does not match the potential effort he would need to put in (whether its the actual amount) its highly likely he would say screw it, because there are other, easier ways to get humanity.


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    Re: A different take on Lautrec

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:42 pm

    xSomax wrote:he doesn't go after the AL for the same reasons. she's obviously armed and ready. no one in their right mind attacks someone like that. conversely, maybe she's armed and ready because lautrec went ahead of you and tried it. there are much easier ways to get humanity in DS. anastasia was quite possibly the easiest. but the others, they are all very much so harder. heck he helps you a couple times, likely the only reason he doesn't straight kill you to begin with. in other words, he realizes your skill, and uses it for free humanity. once you lose your usefulness though, he tries to kill you.  basically, when the gain does not match the potential effort he would need to put in (whether its the actual amount) its highly likely he would say screw it, because there are other, easier ways to get humanity.
    You're the one who goes after him though, not the other way around, so it may just be he's trying to go the easy way out.... hmmmm.


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