ps4 and the good games

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    ps4 and the good games

    Post by Micha369 on Mon May 27, 2013 5:58 am

    Hello folks,

    PS4 will come some day. My question is: Will Demon Souls and DS and DS2 run on this ps4?

    Thanks!
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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 6:05 am

    I'd say so, i imagine they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot like ms did. Pretty sure they used the basic, proc\gfx card setup.
    Actually that's a good question in general for non souls games. Games like uncharted etc that got the most out of the cell processor.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 6:14 am

    Considering both run the same hardware disc (bluray) I'd be very surprised and disappointed if they didn't do backwards compatibility for even one generation.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by EarthScraper on Mon May 27, 2013 6:19 am

    Unfortunately, the ps4 will not have backwards compatibility. Instead Sony are going to have a cloud-based emulator for those games.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 6:22 am

    It's down to how they're programmed too, if they both were set to run mainly off the cell processor you'd have a problem, the gfx card in the PS3 was mainly a backup. Uncharted and most PS3 exclusives use the cell cores for gfx(its the main reason Valve told Ps3 to foff at the start as it was pain to program for). Ps4 from what i gather will be like a standard PC, gfx card for graphics, prcoessor for processing data etc.

    However i'd say the souls games used the standard setup so should be fine.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Marino. on Mon May 27, 2013 6:32 am

    I'm not going to buy it anyway, i think there will be another Video Game Crash in a few Years since the market is oversaturated, just look how many choices you have for Video Games : Ps3, Xbox, Nintendo Wii, PC, PSP, Nintendo DS, Wii u etc whoever has enough Money and Time to play all this crap ?

    Especially if it's true that it's Cloud Based, if i want to use Cloud i would use Steam, A Console is imo just there to shove your Game in and Play .

    So i'm just gonna watch this Trainwreck and wail in my smug satisfaction.
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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 7:09 am

    No....Backwards... Compatibility?

    *** you gaming industry. *** you

    Unless the cloud game thing allows people who already own the games to get them for free with the serial number or something, I'm gonna be extremely disappointed with sony. Thats just full on extorting people for money, puts them on the same level as microsoft.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 7:31 am

    Why are we surprised, only the first gen Ps3's supported PS2 games.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Sentiel on Mon May 27, 2013 7:33 am

    Serious, you have to look at it from their point of view to understand them.
    Take this.

    They made a game and it sold well, but it's time is gone. Now, if they make a new console that won't support this game, it's owners and fans will be displeased, because they may want to play this older game even on the new machine. Instead of pouring money into some system, that will allow them to play the older games, it's much more financially efficient for them to make sure older games won't play on the new system, but instead, allow the players to purchase these said games again. Even with if they charge only 1$ for each of these games, they make almost 100% profit from this 1$, because the games are already made. They only need to modify them and upload them to some online store, which should be monkey level easy and costs next to nothing.

    People are stupid and when they see the low price, they're all like "OMG that's so cheap!", but they usually fail to realize they already paid 50$ for the game a few years back.

    Technically, I see no reason why PS3 games could not be played on PS4. Yes, both have different HW and architecture, but from my very limited HW understanding, PS4 should be HW superior to PS3, so why a superior machine can't do the same that an inferior one can?
    It worked with PS1 games on PS2 and it also worked with PS2 games on first (60 GB) PS3.

    I could understand a re-releases. For example, I read that Shadow of the Colossus was supposed to have more than 16 colossi, but they were scratched, because PS2 couldn't handle it and it wouldn't fit on a single DVD. From the screenshots on the net and unused stuff found inside the actual game, I believe it would be possible to use PS3s HW and BluRay to do a some sort of re-release, or DLC for the digital version of the game, with this previously unused content. The work required to finish and add the content should be fairly simple, especially given the technology we have today, in comparison to when the game was originally released. It would be better than endlessly waiting for The Last Guardian + it could make the devs some extra cash for The Last Guardian as well.

    Stuff like that have been done before with lesser games. Take Persona 3 and FES Edition as an example. Nothing against Persona, I love them.

    Instead. We have DLCs for games that weren't even released yet. Eh, Battlefield 4?

    /endrant

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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 7:40 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:Why are we surprised, only the first gen Ps3's supported PS2 games.

    Thats exactly why I kept on just used the first gen of PS3s. Because the newer ones were inferior and less useful to me due to lack of PS2 compatibility.

    Sentiel- I think though that if I've already purchased a game, I shouldn't have to buy a second copy just because sony's old machine broke on me and they didn't make backwards compatibility on the new one. To me that seems like a pretty unfair situation. It's just them saying "tough ****, you can just rebuy all 20 or so old games you wanna play on cloud, thats totally not too expensive right?"


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 7:43 am

    Ninja Gaiden 2 killed my old Phat PS3. Couldn't get the old ones after that.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 7:46 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:Ninja Gaiden 2 killed my old Phat PS3. Couldn't get the old ones after that.

    There was a service where you could ring up sony helpline, you'd pay like half the price of a new console and they'd take your broke one and give you a new one in return. I've done that about 3 times (though admittedly twice breaking it was entirely my own fault, one time i got it free too cus is was a patch that broke the ps3)


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 7:54 am

    You see you've got to wait for that and the horse doesn't do waiting, a day without my console would've killed me. Shop down the road handles refurbs with sony and i knew the main guy there, so i got a new slim instead for half the price, fecking sony never sent me back my ninja gaiden 2, now that pissed me off. besides most of the ps2 games i was interested in were on the store or hd'd by then.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Micha369 on Mon May 27, 2013 7:55 am

    The reason why I asked my question in the first posting is:
    I'm a PC gamer. I never possessed a console. But now, that I'm done with Dark Souls soon, I considered playing Demon Souls. And Demon Souls doesn't run on PC. So I needed a ps3. And now I discovered that there is a ps4 in the pipeline. So, what are my option?

    Thanks for your help!


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 7:56 am

    It only took like 3 days at most!

    Plus it felt like some hilarious dodgy deal- they'd rock up in a van, give you the package, put your ps3 back in the case and leave :razz:

    Micha looks like your only option if you want to play demon's souls is to buy a ps3- apparently it's not cost effective to make bluray discs run on a bluray console.... yeah.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 7:59 am

    Get a PS3, i got a PS3 at launch and it was well over a year before good titles started rolling out for it. Ps3 will be supported for a good while afterwards and i'm pretty sure DKS2 will be PS3.

    @Serious, i live in ireland with the most inept postal\delivery system in the universe, 3 days would've been a week and 3 days how did you survive?????


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 8:02 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:

    @Serious, i live in ireland with the most inept postal\delivery system in the universe, 3 days would've been a week and 3 days how did you survive?????

    I'm also an avid TV watcher and reader of manga, so I had plenty of things to keep me occupied while bored. Having friends with consoles helps too :razz:


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Sentiel on Mon May 27, 2013 8:04 am

    @Serious

    Exactly. It's not fair, but Sony and Microsponge don't give a coitus.
    Only thing they care about is money and apply very simple, yet effective policy. Pay, or don't play.

    It leaves people with three choices.

    Pay.
    Quit playing games.
    Go to high seas.

    With the last option being pretty difficult, if not outright impossible for consoles. I don't know much about it, so I can't really comment on the difficulty.

    Anyhow, most of us are left with the first two choices and nobody cares what we pick up. Be it the first, or the second doesn't matter. We, as in me and players of my age, are not a majority of the market anymore. Nowadays all they care about is teenagers and kids. They don't take adults into acount that much.
    "They're gonna have to focus on work, family and won't have time for games, so it's better to move from them to their kids." is probably what they think and act like.
    That's why each new game of some popular series and new consoles are more and more focusing on the things younger generation is interested in, instead of "hardcore gaming" that "we" prefer.

    None of my friends with similar age to me care, nor want any of the new features both PS4 and Xbox One are said to have. They grew up in an age where your console did just that, play games. You turned it one, kicked your disc/cartridge in it and played. That's exactly what guys like me want even today.
    + better graphics
    Dead or Alive still needs more polygons.


    Sorry for ranting. I don't have enough pizza in my bloddstream.

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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 8:12 am

    You can blame nintendo for not aiming at the gamers, the wii with a much weaker console aimed for the casuals and cleaned up(there's nothing like watching your 87 yr father trying to do a skijump on the wiifit). Sony\Ms do not want to get caught again.

    As for sony changing the architecture, it sucks but i understand where they're coming from, game developers hated to program for the cell and it lost them alot of titles early, valve in particular. Hopefully this cloud thing will sort it out but i still see the main games coming out on ps3 for another year or so, as i said i got the ps3 on launch and it was painful waiting on games, it was almost more than a year before titles chruned out regularly.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 8:21 am

    I just wish we could all effectively boycott new consoles just to show them we WANT:

    This, that and the other.

    Sadly we can't force them cus kids will still buy, and people are very addicted to games :razz:

    I'm actually considering quitting games though.. What happens when my ps3 inevitably breaks and there's none i can buy new? AND the ps4 plays only new games? Well I'd say I'm royally ***.


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Sentiel on Mon May 27, 2013 8:58 am

    Sony said that PS4 was co-developed with the help of many game developers, so creating games for the console will be as easy and as comfortable for them as possible. This seems to be a huge plus for PS4 imo, because it's the opposite approach Sony had with PS3.

    See, Serious, it's exactly as I said.
    I'm considering the same thing tbh.
    I kinda did already, but slowly. I used to play everything, except for sports games. Hate those. Now I only play games I think I'll like. With such games being fewer in number with each year, I will inevitably end up giving up games completely.

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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon May 27, 2013 9:05 am

    Some years are quite good though, and in fairness if there' 2 or 3 good titles a year I'm happy.

    For instance this year -The last of us, Dark souls II and Beyond: Two souls are all being released. Every last one should be spectacular by the looks of them (beyond is just because Quantic Dream can do no wrong), and all of them I think will be awesome.

    I'm happy with just that haul, and then the inevitable purchase of the new fifa. Mixed in with a couple old games I'll doubtless buy will be good.

    I'm not too bothered a bout a LOT of games, as I watch a lot of TV for entertainment, watch lot of sport, read manga too (though this has diminished now anything remotely good is out I've read it), so as long there's a few games that blow me away each year, thats enough for me.

    I think I'd hang onto PS3 in the first year of PS4 anyway, some late release titles are ssure to be amazing (as Shadow of colossus, FFXII and okami all were)


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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by Sentiel on Mon May 27, 2013 9:44 am

    Well. I love anime and manga. Currently reading Berserk.
    But even so, I watched and read so many, that it's all starting to look the same.

    Movies...I can't really enjoy those. Most movies have terrible plot holes, or horrible actors. For example Avengers. I really like that movie and went to see it to the cinema. Even so, the thing has so many plot holes, that I can't fully enjoy it. I gave up watching TV years ago. Too many damn commercials. If I want to see something, I'll search it on the net.

    Games are good. But most of them last only few hours. Beyond, being one of them. I know the game will be epic, but I also know that I'll finish it in a few days and that's all.
    It doesn't lower the game's quality, but the games today aren't good enough for me to spend several hundreds of hours playing them without online multiplayer, like I used to. I had 300+ hours in FF VII - IX each and 200+ hours in the rest.

    But then XIII comes and I barely scratched 50 hours and was done. Post game was horribly boring and with no challenge. Same can be said about most games.

    The reason why I love Souls games is that even if I'm on my 30th run, it's still fun.

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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by steveswede on Mon May 27, 2013 10:45 am

    Regarding the business with decisions around backwards compatibility that people are pissed off about, let me explain why not having it in the PS4 was the right thing to do from a business standpoint.

    1. Cost

    The cell processor and all the other guts in the PS3 is still a big expense to produce (the parts are more custom than common which inflate the price more). Even though the PS3 price is now low, to actually manufacture PS3 hardware into a PS4 would cost a ton more than it does to buy a single unit. This was also the case with the PS2 hardware built into the PS3 because it's more than just throwing in parts from another machine. A lot of work and money goes into designing hardware and software to the point where it's like building a new console from scratch. Sony tried to save money on the PS3 by having the PS2 section partially emulated. This resulted with 3D games suffering from framerate issues from time to time with some games not even working (I know because I had a CECHC03 partial software model and now have a CECHA01 which is full hardware backwards compatible for PS2 and have see the difference). Due to the fact that it was an expense that never really benefited Sony, they got rid of it in the PS3. Sony did try full software emulation but the PS3 wasn't sufficient enough to run it accurately (in fact it massive broken piece of crap). Sony by the looks of it want to keep the cost down by using their cloud service to play old games and I assume another reason which I'll explain later.

    2. Emulation

    Whatever the reason why the PS1 isn't emulated on the PS4, a near perfect PS2 emulator should be possible due to the PS4 specs we have seen. The PS2 Emotion Engine is apparently an absolute pain to emulate with the PCSX2 team taking 12 years to get it near perfect, which I doubt Sony has anything that close. If Sony manages to get the sole rights to it, or has been developing their own flawless PS2 emulator behind the scenes with plans to release it later, then we might get one though I doubt it. By the looks of things, Sony's only choice to run PS2 games is through the cloud where the games run on actual PS2 hardware parts, much like the approach with running PS3 games on the cloud. The cost of doing this must be the cheaper option than putting money and time into emulation. As for the PS3 being emulated, yeah right like that's going to happen anytime soon due to how complex it is. If the PS2 was a 40 bit encryption, then the PS3 would be a 256 bit encryption and to put things into better perspective, the PS4 might get emulated perfectly before the PS3 does.

    3. Sony emigrating to the cloud

    I getting the impression Sony might consider leaving the console market and just go fully to the cloud. The fact that PS1, PS2 and PS3 games are on there this generation coming shows how much Sony is dedicated to this. Why bother getting old games running on new hardware when doing it this way saves them money and gives them more control over software distribution and protects them from piracy. May sound a bad business practice now but think 10 years from now. The internet will be more available, faster and without noticeable lag. We could be gaming from just a TV at that point with gaming console market well and truly dead.
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    Re: ps4 and the good games

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon May 27, 2013 11:08 am

    3 Definately, next gen of consoles will be just glorified routers.


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