Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

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    skeyslayer

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    Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by skeyslayer on Wed May 22, 2013 7:09 pm

    So, I'm a strength build with the STR level about 30.

    Anyway, with my Club +10, I can deal about anywhere up to 350 damage with a single hit.

    However, when I tried converting it to a Lightning Club, I was only dealing a max of about 90 damage.

    Same goes for weapons like the Lightning spear, which I have heard the lightning weapons are by far more powerful than regular weapons.

    Is something wrong here? Is it my stats? Or just the scaling? I'm really confused and could use some help.

    Thanks guys! happy
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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Encore on Wed May 22, 2013 7:15 pm

    skeyslayer wrote:So, I'm a strength build with the STR level about 30.

    Anyway, with my Club +10, I can deal about anywhere up to 350 damage with a single hit.

    However, when I tried converting it to a Lightning Club, I was only dealing a max of about 90 damage.

    Same goes for weapons like the Lightning spear, which I have heard the lightning weapons are by far more powerful than regular weapons.

    Is something wrong here? Is it my stats? Or just the scaling? I'm really confused and could use some help.

    Thanks guys! happy

    Now the problem here is that lightning upgrade takes away scaling, but give lightning damages, in turn.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 22, 2013 7:16 pm

    Once your stats reach about 24+, scaling tends to allow weapons to be stronger on the normal path than elemental paths. It just so happens that the Club has very high scaling.

    On top of that, elemental weapons have something called split damage. Since you're doing two different types of damage (in this case, Physical and Lightning), you have to go through two different defenses. This is why even though Chaos is stronger than Lightning on paper, some enemies are more resilient to fire than lightning, and as such Lightning will do more damage.

    Fire, Lightning, and Chaos have NO SCALING (exception to Chaos, which gets stronger the more humanity you have). This means that the normal path will do more damage once your stats reach around 24+.

    Pure physical is always the strongest damage type.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by WaffleGuy on Wed May 22, 2013 7:18 pm

    Lightning should be good if, for example you use a mage with only 8 DEX and 8 STR. Then you can use the Hand Axe and turn it into a lightning weapon. You'll deal a lot of damage with it.
    You should never use the regular upgrade to +15 with this mage, because your scaling is so weak.
    You should upgrade the club regularly. Maybe take the Reinforced club. I think it may deal more damage and it causes bleed too.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by skeyslayer on Wed May 22, 2013 7:19 pm

    So the lightning is not dealing damage each hit? It's an effect like bleed?

    Sorry these are such dumb questions, I was just confused because I thought it did lightning damage each hit.

    And thank you Dissville for clearing that up. I'm still curious as to if lightning is an effect, though!

    You guys are great, I might have to stick around these forums!
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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 22, 2013 7:29 pm

    Lightning does damage, yes.
    All lightning does is add a second damage type. In return, your scaling is removed. Think of it like your scaling, except it's just split apart. It gives you a base damage instead of extra damage as you increase your levels. This means it's great when your levels are low. Unfortunately, as it has no scaling and is split damage, once your levels begin to get higher pure physical will outdamage it.


    Here's an example as to why:

    Okay. Say your opponent has 150 physical defense and 150 lightning defense.
    Your two weapons are a Lightning weapon which does 300 physical + 300 lightning and a normal weapon which does 300 physical + 200 physical from scaling.

    This means your Lightning weapon does 600 damage, and your normal one does 500 damage. Lightning wins.
    But then there's your enemies defense. As I said before, the enemy has 150-150 defense. This means it will subtract 150 physical AND lightning damage.
    So, 150 damage from your normal weapon, and 300 damage from your lightning weapon.
    Through the defenses, your end damage with your normal weapon is 350, while your lightning weapon will only do 300.

    This comes into play in many areas. Pure physical always wins out once you have higher scaling.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by WaffleGuy on Wed May 22, 2013 7:31 pm

    skeyslayer wrote:So the lightning is not dealing damage each hit? It's an effect like bleed?

    Sorry these are such dumb questions, I was just confused because I thought it did lightning damage each hit.

    And thank you Dissville for clearing that up. I'm still curious as to if lightning is an effect, though!

    You guys are great, I might have to stick around these forums!

    Lightning is a damage type, just like physical. The 'effect' is only the lightning you see on your opponents, but it's not like being poisoned or bled out.

    If you level up your STR, you'll do more damage with the clubs. Lightning is only good for early levels or when you don't upgrade STR and DEX. Split damage is less damaging later on as enemies have more resistances.


    f.e.(all numbers are not correct, but just to give you an idea):
    enemy A has 100 physical defense and 100 lightning defense.


    With your lightning club you'll do about 500 total damage. So it's 250 physical damage and 250 lightning damage in this case.

    --> 250 physical damage - 100 physical defense enemy: about 160 damage
    --> 250 lightning damage - 100 lightning defense enemy: about 160 damage
    Let's say you'll hit the enemy for 320 damage.


    Then, when you have a pretty high STR stat, let's say you do 480 total damage, but it's only physical damage (+15 regular upgrade. You may think that 500 damage is higher than 480, but the last one isn't split damage.
    --> 480 physical damage on the same enemy with 100 physical defense = 390 damage.


    So when you upgrade your STR or DEX, regular upgrade will be stonger. Hope this helps.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by WaffleGuy on Wed May 22, 2013 7:32 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Lightning does damage, yes.
    All lightning does is add a second damage type. In return, your scaling is removed. Think of it like your scaling, except it's just split apart. It gives you a base damage instead of extra damage as you increase your levels. This means it's great when your levels are low. Unfortunately, as it has no scaling and is split damage, once your levels begin to get higher pure physical will outdamage it.


    Here's an example as to why:

    Okay. Say your opponent has 150 physical defense and 150 lightning defense.
    Your two weapons are a Lightning weapon which does 300 physical + 300 lightning and a normal weapon which does 300 physical + 200 physical from scaling.

    This means your Lightning weapon does 600 damage, and your normal one does 500 damage. Lightning wins.
    But then there's your enemies defense. As I said before, the enemy has 150-150 defense. This means it will subtract 150 physical AND lightning damage.
    So, 150 damage from your normal weapon, and 300 damage from your lightning weapon.
    Through the defenses, your end damage with your normal weapon is 350, while your lightning weapon will only do 300.

    This comes into play in many areas. Pure physical always wins out once you have higher scaling.

    J-just stop b-b-being faster, man D:


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by skeyslayer on Wed May 22, 2013 7:33 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Lightning does damage, yes.
    All lightning does is add a second damage type. In return, your scaling is removed. Think of it like your scaling, except it's just split apart. It gives you a base damage instead of extra damage as you increase your levels. This means it's great when your levels are low. Unfortunately, as it has no scaling and is split damage, once your levels begin to get higher pure physical will outdamage it.


    Here's an example as to why:

    Okay. Say your opponent has 150 physical defense and 150 lightning defense.
    Your two weapons are a Lightning weapon which does 300 physical + 300 lightning and a normal weapon which does 300 physical + 200 physical from scaling.

    This means your Lightning weapon does 600 damage, and your normal one does 500 damage. Lightning wins.
    But then there's your enemies defense. As I said before, the enemy has 150-150 defense. This means it will subtract 150 physical AND lightning damage.
    So, 150 damage from your normal weapon, and 300 damage from your lightning weapon.
    Through the defenses, your end damage with your normal weapon is 350, while your lightning weapon will only do 300.

    This comes into play in many areas. Pure physical always wins out once you have higher scaling.

    Ah! Thank you. This helps me quite a bit!
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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 22, 2013 7:35 pm

    Now he has two sources. winking





    Here's a general rule to follow:
    If the pure physical damage of a weapon equals the physical damage of an elemental weapons + HALF of the element, chances are it will do more damage overall.

    Go back to my example.
    500 ≥ 300 + 150


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by skeyslayer on Wed May 22, 2013 7:37 pm

    Thank both of you so much, haha. I don't know if there is a way to give thanks other than saying it on these forums, if there is I'd do it.
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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 22, 2013 7:41 pm

    If you look to the side of a post, there's a few little buttons. It kind of looks like this;
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    If you click the plus, you will uprep someone. If you click the minus, you will downrep someone. You get 3 ups and 3 downs per day. Rate people to your hearts content. If you liked a post, give it some rep. If you dislike, then give it a downrep.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Wed May 22, 2013 7:46 pm

    I think these dudes pretty much explained the hell out of it.Normal is almost always better than elemental.If you need to use an elemental weapon in PVP,go chaos.It has much better damage than lightning if you have 10 humanity.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by skeyslayer on Wed May 22, 2013 7:48 pm

    Dibsville wrote:If you look to the side of a post, there's a few little buttons. It kind of looks like this;
    +
    _

    -


    If you click the plus, you will uprep someone. If you click the minus, you will downrep someone. You get 3 ups and 3 downs per day. Rate people to your hearts content. If you liked a post, give it some rep. If you dislike, then give it a downrep.

    Meh, don't see it. Maybe you have to have so many posts? I dunno. Anyways, thanks again guys. happy
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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 22, 2013 7:50 pm

    skeyslayer wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:If you look to the side of a post, there's a few little buttons. It kind of looks like this;
    +
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    -


    If you click the plus, you will uprep someone. If you click the minus, you will downrep someone. You get 3 ups and 3 downs per day. Rate people to your hearts content. If you liked a post, give it some rep. If you dislike, then give it a downrep.

    Meh, don't see it. Maybe you have to have so many posts? I dunno. Anyways, thanks again guys. happy

    This thing.






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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by skeyslayer on Wed May 22, 2013 8:04 pm

    I don't see it. So you probably have to be active a few days. I just joined and plan on actually staying because I've liked what I've read frmo everywhere so far.

    Thanks for future reference though! Praise the Sun
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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 22, 2013 8:09 pm

    No problem, hope to see your around.


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    Re: Lightning vs. Regular weapons?

    Post by Phoenix Rising on Wed May 22, 2013 8:12 pm

    I think you have to reach a certain number of posts before you can rep people...


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