New mechanic: Free phantom

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    LunarFog
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    New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by LunarFog on Wed May 22, 2013 4:00 pm

    The summoning system in Dark Souls 2 is changed so that ALL players can be summoned and/or invade as NEUTRAL phantoms. As a neutral phantom, you can attack the host, but all monsters also attack you. If the host enters the boss area(if there are any) you have 5 seconds to follow before you disappear. Your phantom starts as grey and grows more white or black depending on your actions.

    Specific ways to summon/invade override the neutral status. For example, if you invade as a darkmoon blade, your phantom is blue instead of grey. There could be an item that gets you summoned as a sunbro, and cannot attack the host.

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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by DemonOfFate on Wed May 22, 2013 4:37 pm

    Did they actually do this? Or are you just saying this would be a cool concept? Because i think it would.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Wed May 22, 2013 4:48 pm

    I would be summoned as a neutral but over time become either white, which is good, or black which is evil? Sounds interesting to have.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Elifia on Wed May 22, 2013 4:49 pm

    Sounds like a suggestion to me. Pretty cool suggestion though. Remove the white and red soapstone, replace them with the neutral one. Give the sunbros a special gold soapstone after donating enough medals (which naturally are only earned when you kill the boss, not when you kill the host). Still wondering how one would differentiate killing the host from letting the host die, though...


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by R3dlace on Wed May 22, 2013 5:25 pm

    Eh, what? Why haven't I thought of that earlier. That would be so very awesome.
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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 22, 2013 5:31 pm

    I like this.
    Want it badly.
    Would be good to help the host through the game then suddenly shove my sword into him.
    The essence of trolling.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Wed May 22, 2013 5:34 pm

    Dibsville wrote:I like this.
    Want it badly.
    Would be good to help the host through the game then suddenly shove my sword into him.
    The essence of trolling.
    More like the essence of trust, hidden motives, loyalty, and betrayal. I love it. Make you really wonder how wants to help and who wants to kill you.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed May 22, 2013 7:42 pm

    Considering they're hoping souls attracts more players, i doubt they'll make it so all your summons will just BS you before leading a crowd of enemies to them


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Encore on Wed May 22, 2013 7:47 pm

    Fits in the theme of DS so very much.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Seignar on Wed May 22, 2013 7:48 pm

    Exactly the problem. This isn't good. I would never summon if I knew that the summons could kill me at any moment they chose, especially when we confront enemies. This also kind of goes for being a summon as well, because now I know the host can kill me anytime he/she pleases, new form of griefing. This "Neutral" phantom should be a unique summon and should not replace the definite white and red signs we currently have.

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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed May 22, 2013 7:56 pm

    Seignar wrote:Exactly the problem. This isn't good. I would never summon if I knew that the summons could kill me at any moment they chose, especially when we confront enemies. This also kind of goes for being a summon as well, because now I know the host can kill me anytime he/she pleases, new form of griefing. This "Neutral" phantom should be a unique summon and should not replace the definite white and red signs we currently have.

    Sounds about right


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Encore on Wed May 22, 2013 7:58 pm

    It should belong to a covenant called "The nameless"


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Wed May 22, 2013 8:00 pm

    Looking from a wider view I see how Seingar is right about this. It will form a new and frankly wider form of grief and would halt summoning for co-op purposes and instead rise to invaders and an increased "black" phantom population.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Seignar on Wed May 22, 2013 8:04 pm

    "Undead Order" is more fitting. Whites and Reds are still both undead and share the characteristics of being able to go hollow. The name would be fitting as it would describe how the summons could either be on the verge of hollowing or still maintaining their humanity, it would also represent the fact that undeads are still somewhat human and can either harm or help, as per human nature.

    but, for a risky 50/50 in the fact you don't know if this guy will be your death or not, the "Undead Order" can be summoned by Hollows as well and only by weaker hosts.

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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Encore on Wed May 22, 2013 8:07 pm

    Seignar wrote:"Undead Order" is more fitting. Whites and Reds are still both undead and share the characteristics of being able to go hollow. The name would be fitting as it would describe how the summons could either be on the verge of hollowing or still maintaining their humanity, it would also represent the fact that undeads are still somewhat human and can either harm or help, as per human nature.

    but, for a risky 50/50 in the fact you don't know if this guy will be your death or not, the "Undead Order" can be summoned by Hollows as well and only by weaker hosts.

    Indeed, that name is better, and could probably fit in nicely from a story perspective.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by WandererReece on Wed May 22, 2013 8:12 pm

    DemonOfFate wrote: Did they actually do this? Or are you just saying this would be a cool concept? Because i think it would.

    It's just a repeat of this thread.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Seignar on Wed May 22, 2013 8:16 pm

    It would be nice from a story perspective. Considering they are being "hunted" by Thoruland and their are legends that state of a "Chosen One" among them, I can see an Undead Cult awaiting the Dark Lord.

    Also, on topic of my other thing: How would it work if this was a summon available to hollows? Again, an Undead Cult, it would make sense for them to reach their brethren regardless if they are human or not, but I reconsider and I now think that the level ranges should remain the same. The ability to be able to be summoned by hollows proves most useful as the player cannot be invaded (so the hollow could have a companion with no invasion dangers) and he cannot summon (so the hollow does not get back-up if he is traitorous), this would make these signs a last gamble for the host.

    The fact that these summons are the most suspicious is compensated by the fact they can appear where others cannot and have more host pools.

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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Myztyrio on Wed May 22, 2013 8:23 pm

    I feel like this is something that would fit the Chaos Servants


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by WandererReece on Wed May 22, 2013 8:24 pm

    ^ They are lacking a purpose. lol!


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by R3dlace on Wed May 22, 2013 10:34 pm

    Can you imagine the depth it would add? Awww yiss.

    "Being summoned, my intentions are to help the summoner throughout the level until the boss. We bow, wave and proceed to go in the general direction that would take us there. Towards the end of the level, we are being invaded by a spear user, wearing heavy armor. He bows, so do I. It's a duel between me, the protector of the host, and him, the assassin. He gets the best of me, I'm almost done for. Suddenly, the host joins in and fishes a backstab out of him, ending the invasion. Now it's peaceful, but I never intended for that. I'm honorable, and this action betrays my virtues. I point my sword at the host, and raise up my shield. I will not stand for this."
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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by mr_no_face on Thu May 23, 2013 7:19 am

    What if you werre to become white after having assisted the host ... would you be able to turn right back around and kill hit after you know he's used a lot of his estus?


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Aevun on Thu May 23, 2013 7:49 am

    I think an effective solution to prevent griefing would be to make the reward for assisting the host much greater than the reward for betrayal.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by ExplodingPenguin on Thu May 23, 2013 8:15 am

    Tehdoomgrasp wrote:It should belong to a covenant called "The nameless"

    I approve of this suggestion.


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    Re: New mechanic: Free phantom

    Post by Halicarnassis on Thu May 23, 2013 9:45 am

    It sounds a bit like character tendency from Demon Souls.. How's this for one step further: If you put down a "neutral" soap stone sign, then, when summoned you appear as either white or red depending on your CT


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