Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

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    Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Sargerus on Thu May 16, 2013 6:22 pm

    In Dark Souls we kill the Father of the Abyss, Gywn, Nito the first of the Dead, the BoC which spawned all the chaos demons, etc. We pretty much fought against almost every being uber-powerful in the world.

    I'm really curious how/if DkS2 can top those boss encounters.

    Thoughts?



    Last edited by Sargerus on Thu May 16, 2013 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Dibsville on Thu May 16, 2013 6:31 pm

    As long as I'm dying a lot, I couldn't care less. Prostration


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Thu May 16, 2013 6:48 pm

    we fought boc in her senile squishable bug state, not at the height of her pyromantic power, nito actually is the least impressive of the lords as his thing was watching and waiting slowly accruing dead for apparently no purpose other than to guard him. any way this time around there seem to be a large number of dragons, thus this may be pre dragon-war where boc,nito, etc have just obtained their lordsouls, we already know the last everlasting dragon in dks1 is invincible, maybe one of him but one that actually fights back? also if the time is what i think it is there will be gods to slay.


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by R3dlace on Thu May 16, 2013 8:22 pm

    Sargerus wrote: We pretty much fought against almost every being uber-powerful in the world

    In Lordran, maybe, but not in the "world". Of course, the first flame is very important to all the living things in Lordran (maybe even everywhere but thats another story) but perhaps the timeline set in DkS 2 will have nothing to do with the flame and everything around it.

    It's hard to imagine what could possibly be as important as the first flame but that's why there are guys paid to think about it.
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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by raecor14 on Thu May 16, 2013 9:13 pm

    I want more "human" bosses, like ricard but less alpha enemy and more "buff up my rapier and kick the living **** out of you"


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Werdax on Fri May 17, 2013 4:14 am

    Depends where the next game is taking place. The bosses in the first game was legends from their land. Each and every boss in DS2 will without a doubt have a unique lore to it.
    Who is to say there is no more legendary opponents out there?
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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Anonymous Proxy on Fri May 17, 2013 4:23 am

    I want faster mobs. I hate giant enemies with a slow reaction time. I want one who won't let me heal anytime I want. I also want an enemy based with intelligent AI that can counter attacks you do.

    Because Dark Souls is limited to 4-5 unique actions, I want a boss to have a defense against these actions. Like the turtle shell dude in the gameplayer trailer where he slams back when trying to be backstabbed.

    Or if we try to parry, they they pierce. Because they would do more damage.

    I want more Game Theory applied lol.


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri May 17, 2013 12:33 pm

    From a lore perspective it was nailed pretty early on. While we fight all the biggest and baddest left around it's really just the scrap heap we're facing.

    Gwyn= gave away his power repeatedly and likely burning out as the flames is
    BoC= Doesn't fear the reaper (ha ha ha) but is seemingly barely sentient and extremely limited
    Nito= Shows zero evidence of his real power (where's my miasma?)
    Seath= Possible run and weakest dragon
    Four Kings= Wraith versions of mortals who had a tiny fragment of Gwyn's power
    Ornstein= Possibly full power
    Gwyndolin= Most theology has offspring (particularly oddball ones) as weaker than parents so he might be full power

    Manus= Insinuated he's kinda lost it, lack of focus usually means weaker
    Artorias= Corroded and diminished....the guy can't even block at this point
    Kalameet= Maybe full power but Gough gives the impression the two of them have had a long and enduring stand off, leading to a loss of skills

    With all those things in mind, the DLC is in the past and my impression is that the three major DLC bosses are stronger than the originals for the most part. Possibly evidence that everything wanes as the flame does in Lordran. So if the new game is in the past, it's likely the flame is making everything stronger or allowing greater potential.

    This assumes that the flame is integral to where we explore in the first place but the evidence being that the world in Dark Souls is in decay. We're beating up on the scrubs.


    Then there's the in game lore answer that can be used to explain anything:
    Sif vs. Manus
    or
    Sif when we fight her?

    Beings change constantly so there doesn't need to be any lore correlation between the two games for Dark Souls II to feature amazing fights that show off enemies that would make bonewheels cry.

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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Ashran on Fri May 17, 2013 12:39 pm

    What if Salaman, Carmina, Lloyd... So many people to fight... Maybe a everlasting dragon?? who knows... I just want to die again and again :mask-father:


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by LunarFog on Fri May 17, 2013 12:54 pm

    Remember that literally EVERY uber-powerful boss like Gwyn, Artorias, and Nito were all WAY past their prime.


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Nybbles on Fri May 17, 2013 1:53 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:we fought boc in her senile squishable bug state, not at the height of her pyromantic power

    just to be creepy, think of that little bug thing as the witches ovary and not the witch herself. the witch was actually the big fire monster that came out of the tree and that bug thingy, well once it's dead, no more giving birth to demons and no more reason to go on living. that would make the orbs on each side the chaos witch's pregnant uteruses's (or however you pluralize that)…you baby killer you.

    i forget who it was that thought of that, but once they got me thinking about it…shudders.

    but yeah, it's a corner that allot of sequels paint themselves into. each one has to have a bigger more threatening bad than the previous one and once you have already faced off against the gods themselves and the mother of all demons, where do you go?

    i know! to the dragon school of Vinheim! where they are obviously doing vile experiments on undead dragons, the one creature that even the gods feared!

    so giant mutated undead dragons with the unholy power of the soul arts it is then.
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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Hue on Fri May 17, 2013 2:11 pm

    Ashran wrote:Carmina
    With flash sweat, power within and iron flesh on alll at the same time permanently


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by chaos4ever181 on Fri May 17, 2013 4:11 pm

    R3dlace wrote:
    Sargerus wrote: We pretty much fought against almost every being uber-powerful in the world

    In Lordran, maybe, but not in the "world". Of course, the first flame is very important to all the living things in Lordran (maybe even everywhere but thats another story) but perhaps the timeline set in DkS 2 will have nothing to do with the flame and everything around it.

    It's hard to imagine what could possibly be as important as the first flame but that's why there are guys paid to think about it.

    That has always stumped me when it comes to lore. The First Flame seemed important, but how does the Flame dying bring The Age of Man when people state that it effects only Lordran? :?: How come the supervisor of Dark Souls II twittered a hint saying "what made the gods leave"? :?: Is The First Flame connected to the entire Dark Souls world or not? Dark Souls II will definitely need to explain some of these unanswered questions.

    If that's the case, then who can be more powerful than Lord Gwyn in his prime? :suspect:

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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Nybbles on Fri May 17, 2013 4:32 pm

    who can be more powerful than Lord Gwyn in his prime? immortal stone dragons that's who!

    the chosen undead has pretty much cleaned out the only power in Lordran capable of holding back or even stopping the dragons from turning the world into its lower bunk prison *****. the first flame might be one of the reasons why the dragons were never able to fully return. we all know that the dragons existed before the flame and it was the gods that kept that party going.

    also…Vinheim! Dragon School, Assassins, Magic Experiments and Souls Arts Run Amok…Hello!
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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by Slarg232 on Fri May 17, 2013 5:44 pm

    We only know of what is important to Lordran. The Gods of Anor Londo fled, but we have yet to see actual giants (That aren't slaves/illusions), the Primordial Hydra, whatever sorts of experiments are going on down in that Dragon place, the Gods of Other Lands, or anything like that.

    Keep in mind that not all the bosses were even completely centralized in Lordran (Bell Gargoyles, Gaping Dragon, Dragon/Giant/God Halfbreed Thing, Snorlax/Pikachu were really just Knights, The Four Kings were just corrupted humans?)

    There have to be other Giant Wolves out there as well.

    Not to mention any sort of Coastal monster; we could very well be going against the Kraken/Leviathan or anything similar.

    I personally would also love to see the Leviathan/Zizz/Behemoth. That would be an interesting set of bosses.

    Edit: also, calling it now; we are going to see some Frankenstein Monster esque thing. Just because of the Dragon Experiment place with the Cyclopes Rat.


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    Re: Lore-wise, how can DkS2 boss encounters surpass DkS1?

    Post by R3dlace on Fri May 17, 2013 11:51 pm

    I always thought of Lordran's lore as this ; A cultural religion set within the very perimeter of the region. If you think of any religion in our world, realize that they all "KNOW" that they're right. There's no doubt, nothing can even exist beyond their beliefs.

    Well, this applies to Lordran, as well as the whole universe of the Souls series. We read and learn of the lore in an educational manner, yet does that mean it's true? No. Does it mean it's a lie? Nope. It means we don't know but there are some people that may or may not know the answers and we decided to listen to them because, well, sometimes they are right.

    So when Frampt said that the only way is the succeed Gwyn, we thought it was the only way. Then we found out about Kaathe, who said there was another way. A better way. Now we know there are two possible outcomes. But think of it like this ; What if they were both wrong? What if the vanishing of the flame was not as catastrophic or as glorious as they thought? What if it did...nothing?

    I rambled a lot but it kept going on in my head so...forgive me.

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