the Mega Mule

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    Aevun
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Aevun on Fri May 17, 2013 1:14 pm

    barrywilkins wrote:

    I've yet to see any actually valid argument against using the mule.
    Most of it seems to be just people complaining for the sake of
    complaining.
    The post I made right above yours details everything a Mega Mule player gets in Ng that a legit player cannot. There is actually quite a big difference between Ng enemies and Ng+5 enemies. Just to catch up to what Mega Mule gives a player, someone has to deal with the possibility of fighting enemies that'll two shot most people while the Mega Mule user can laugh off any mobs they've accidentally aggroed during a fight.

    I addressed that in my post. What someone else does in pve affects no one else. If they want to ruin their experience of their own volition, that's their prerogative. In addition to what I've already said I'll add that someone can become a sl 120 powerhouse with maxed out equipment without ever going to ng+. Likewise they could do the same with the mule. The difference being several hundred hours of THEIR life spent on the game. It has no impact on you.

    And wouldn't it be PREFERRED to have accidentally aggro'd enemies be weak? You know, so they could be easily dispatched so the players could continue their match? In pvp that must certainly be the case, and in pve my "doesn't affect you"-argument stands.

    Valid argument counter is still at zero.


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri May 17, 2013 1:20 pm

    Aevun wrote:
    barrywilkins wrote:

    I've yet to see any actually valid argument against using the mule.
    Most of it seems to be just people complaining for the sake of
    complaining.
    The post I made right above yours details everything a Mega Mule player gets in Ng that a legit player cannot. There is actually quite a big difference between Ng enemies and Ng+5 enemies. Just to catch up to what Mega Mule gives a player, someone has to deal with the possibility of fighting enemies that'll two shot most people while the Mega Mule user can laugh off any mobs they've accidentally aggroed during a fight.

    I addressed that in my post. What someone else does in pve affects no one else. If they want to ruin their experience of their own volition, that's their prerogative. In addition to what I've already said I'll add that someone can become a sl 120 powerhouse with maxed out equipment without ever going to ng+. Likewise they could do the same with the mule. The difference being several hundred hours of THEIR life spent on the game. It has no impact on you.

    And wouldn't it be PREFERRED to have accidentally aggro'd enemies be weak? You know, so they could be easily dispatched so the players could continue their match? In pvp that must certainly be the case, and in pve my "doesn't affect you"-argument stands.

    Valid argument counter is still at zero.

    hes talking about invaders who run off to Enemy mobs and tries to bate the host to running into mobs blindly. i usually just DC invaders who do that, ain't no none have time for that, chasing invaders all over a level form mob to mob

    now i don't DC right away, i usually send them a message saying i won't chase them and they have 2 mins to come back and duel


    Last edited by Glutebrah on Fri May 17, 2013 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Nybbles on Fri May 17, 2013 1:20 pm

    Aevun wrote:Valid argument counter is still at zero.

    spamming 5 stacks of dark bead or wrath of the gods isn't PVP…that **** is just plain aggravating for anyone that does want to PVP

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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Aevun on Fri May 17, 2013 1:25 pm

    Nybbles wrote:
    Aevun wrote:Valid argument counter is still at zero.

    spamming 5 stacks of dark bead or wrath of the gods isn't PVP…that **** is just plain aggravating for anyone that does want to PVP

    Already possible without the mule. How's that supposed to even be an argument?


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Nybbles on Fri May 17, 2013 1:29 pm

    Aevun wrote:
    Nybbles wrote:
    Aevun wrote:Valid argument counter is still at zero.

    spamming 5 stacks of dark bead or wrath of the gods isn't PVP…that **** is just plain aggravating for anyone that does want to PVP

    Already possible without the mule. How's that supposed to even be an argument?

    having to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of 100+ hours to get those 5 stacks of every spell in the game is a natural barrier to wanting to actually use any build that requires or can even use 5 stacks of every spell in the game. unless you have nothing but time on your hands, in which case i would say "it's time to move out of your parents basement"
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri May 17, 2013 1:29 pm

    Aevun wrote:
    Nybbles wrote:
    Aevun wrote:Valid argument counter is still at zero.

    spamming 5 stacks of dark bead or wrath of the gods isn't PVP…that **** is just plain aggravating for anyone that does want to PVP

    Already possible without the mule. How's that supposed to even be an argument?

    for some one that supports the mule, i would say it can become more common. as people who normally wouldn't spend the time to get 5 stacks and settle for only 3 stacks, now have easy access to 5. So the slim chance that 3 stacks wasn't enough to kill you they now have 2 more...


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by barrywilkins on Fri May 17, 2013 1:44 pm

    The pvp of this game is very closely tied to the pve. Take for example forest pvp. One of the most common strategies a forest hunter employs against his/her target is to get the ents or the forest hunter NPCs after them. I'm sure you already know this but, the difference between ng ents and ng+5 ents is quite staggering in terms of tankiness and damage.

    And in terms of pure dueling, there is also quite the advantage to be had with Mega Mule. I've already covered the whole crystal weapon thing before so I don't feel like its necessary to explain it again. Many people don't realize this often enough, but you can actually change your gear just before/during a fight. This practice isn't put to use to its full potential most of the time, as players usually have to deal with the fact that if they want a weapon at its full power, they need to invest the time to actually upgrade it which can take hours of grinding, all for a situational backup that hardly ever comes into use. You don't see players running around with a chaos/lightning version of every weapon they are able to use not because it isn't effective but, because the time/reward ratio is too low for them to actually consider it being put to use.

    Say a mage with 50 int, Moonlight Greatsword, Dark Bead, Crystal Soul Spear and Pursuers encounters his nemesis: a great magic barrier using haveltank with a gold tracer. Said mage has a backup lightning claymore for someone who uses great magic barrier, so hes not completely out of it. However, in this case, a partizan would serve them much better. They wanted to make said Partizan, but this run throughs partizan is a +15 for when they want to use crystal magic weapon and havels is pretty much immune to physical damage anyway. The mage cannot possibly try to swing at the havel tank for fear of the unbeatable stunlock that he cannot deal with the claymore at hand. If the mage had been a mega mule character, this issue wouldn't have existed in the first place. He woulda pulled out the Lightning Partizan and chipped the haveltank down.

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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Nybbles on Fri May 17, 2013 2:09 pm

    what barrywilkins said

    it's about choices and how you want to spend your time once you've made them. mega mules don't have to make choices or sacrifice anything at all, that's a huge advantage that most will conveniently overlook so they can feel good about cheating in a competitive game. granted the competition is meaningless and is meant for fun, but it can ruin other peoples fun when they think that there is a possibility that the other player is cheating while they are not.

    also, being blue is op.

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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Animaaal on Fri May 17, 2013 2:16 pm

    Aevun wrote:
    Nybbles wrote:
    Aevun wrote:Valid argument counter is still at zero.

    spamming 5 stacks of dark bead or wrath of the gods isn't PVP…that **** is just plain aggravating for anyone that does want to PVP

    Already possible without the mule. How's that supposed to even be an argument?

    How is it not?

    To anyone who says, "anyone can get to ng +5" I call bs. Went there once and never will again for any reason...ever.

    Barry Wilkins and Nybbles make the most valid argument and rationale points.

    People who say, "Its for people who like to pvp" are making a horribly weak arguement. There is nothing wrong with using it to make a sl 55, 100, or 120 pvp toon, but the people who do that and do that ONLY are the minority.

    I'd wager the ratios are in the ballpark of 1/5....if even that close.

    Again, for those of you using it for high level pvp and that only, I say, Bow

    To the rest of you (you know who you are) I say, Look Skyward
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri May 17, 2013 2:39 pm

    my SL150 Sorc (in sig) on my Original Account was in NG6 because i wanted alot of casts of CSS for pve co-op.

    then when Mega Mule came out i remade that exact character on a new account (i wanted to change my PSN name). so now i have the same character with in NG.

    but you are all right i can clearly see how this new character is so much more powerful then my original one.... :roll:

    whether it is NG+ or NG+++ PVE is not hard at all. especially if you are around SL100-200 because there are millions of Summon signs to co-op every level.


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Nybbles on Fri May 17, 2013 2:46 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:my SL150 Sorc (in sig) on my Original Account was in NG6 because i wanted alot of casts of CSS for pve co-op.

    then when Mega Mule came out i remade that exact character on a new account (i wanted to change my PSN name). so now i have the same character with in NG.

    but you are all right i can clearly see how this new character is so much more powerful then my original one.... :roll:

    whether it is NG+ or NG+++ PVE is not hard at all. especially if you are around SL100-200 because there are millions of Summon signs to co-op every level.

    and that's a valid use of the mega mule glutebrah…though i have no idea why you'd want to change your name to buttocks brother (or is it brazier?) lol

    sadly, i don't think that is the reason 97.627% (i did the math) of the people will want to use the mega mule.


    Last edited by Nybbles on Fri May 17, 2013 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Fri May 17, 2013 2:47 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    I'd wager the ratios are in the ballpark of 1/5....if even that close.
    I'll wager you pulled those numbers out of thin air(or your arse)

    Im still just happy that MM is keeping people PvPing, more people PvPing = win in my books no matter how they get there.

    And again... Yes there will be people that use it for evil, but those people will always find a way to do evil.


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Animaaal on Fri May 17, 2013 2:49 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:...but you are all right i can clearly see how this new character is so much more powerful then my original one.... :roll:...

    No one said that was wrong, and I dont think anyone said that a person willing to go past NG+ for duplicate spells is a tryhard or anything either.

    Glutebrah wrote:...whether it is NG+ or NG+++ PVE is not hard at all. especially if you are around SL100-200 because there are millions of Summon signs to co-op every level....

    Granted that might be a little subjective, but its an rationale statement. However, making the same argument for soul level 1-20 is not.

    Its just bad a ruins the game a little, how is that so hard to admit?

    Again, if you can use it responsibly, then awesome, you deserve a bow…seriously…not being sarcastic.

    However, we all know what happens with temptation. The griefers out weight the duelers, that’s inarguable.

    @Maneater_Mildred

    Ya I did, how else would I guess or wager? It was a guess, I said it was a guess...whats yours Well What is it ...

    ...or anyone else's for that matter?
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by barrywilkins on Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 pm

    my SL150 Sorc (in sig) on my Original Account was in NG6 because i wanted alot of casts of CSS for pve co-op.

    then
    when Mega Mule came out i remade that exact character on a new account
    (i wanted to change my PSN name). so now i have the same character with
    in NG.

    but you are all right i can clearly see how this new character is so much more powerful then my original one.... :roll:
    For your characters to be of exact equal strength, you would have to have everything that Mega Mule provides that new character with on the old character. So I must ask, did you take the time to upgrade every weapon/armor to their fullest except for fire/raw?
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by twigsterxd on Fri May 17, 2013 2:57 pm

    for anybody not liking MM, I just got it and having a low level toon with pursuers only gives that person 1 pursuers because it takes 2 slots and depending on your equipment selection, you have to allocate points in dex and str. At sl 15 you may only get 1 magic slot, 2 at most and if you're good enough, (which i'm not), you can avoid pursuers. you may get a total of 5 pursuers magic but you need 10 slots to equip them all.
    Gankers have been around since Demon Souls. It's gonna happen. I don't like them either but at least now I know I have a fighting chance against them.


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Fri May 17, 2013 2:59 pm

    Nope animal you didn't say it was a guess, just that you would wager. Most people that wager on things like to have informed knowledge to help them win said wager.

    I was just asking if you had any factual evidence to back it up. But I guessed right. winking

    3 out of 5 will use it for PvP only is my random guess.


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by barrywilkins on Fri May 17, 2013 3:04 pm

    for anybody not liking MM, I just got it and having a low level toon
    with pursuers only gives that person 1 pursuers because it takes 2 slots
    and depending on your equipment selection, you have to allocate points
    in dex and str. At sl 15 you may only get 1 magic slot, 2 at most and if
    you're good enough, (which i'm not), you can avoid pursuers. you may
    get a total of 5 pursuers magic but you need 10 slots to equip them all.
    Gankers
    have been around since Demon Souls. It's gonna happen. I don't like
    them either but at least now I know I have a fighting chance against
    them.
    No one here has said that Mega Mule somehow gives your character the ability to equip more spells than they could be able to. Or that somehow, the equipment you have is better. The thing is, Mega Mule allows you to circumvent that nasty thing known as Ng+ if you want to get more than 1 attunement of spells/copy of a weapon. Its that it gives you 5 attunements of a spell you should have 0-1 of at the time, as well as 8 copies of a weapon you can only get once per ng. As well as the equivalent of more than 300 slabs (im not sure of the exact number). In essence, Mega Mule doesn't make 100% impossible characters, its just the equivalent of a resource hack in starcraft.
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri May 17, 2013 3:04 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    Granted that might be a little subjective, but its an rationale statement. However, making the same argument for soul level 1-20 is not.

    True you have Low Level griefers, but i guess i never experience them because when i host on my SL100s and i get invaded by a griefer they are the ones that get one shot from me and i think oh.. that sucked for him.

    barrywilkins wrote:
    For your characters to be of exact equal strength, you would have to have everything that Mega Mule provides that new character with on the old character. So I must ask, did you take the time to upgrade every weapon/armor to their fullest except for fire/raw?

    no sure i follow your logic on how having upgraded weapons wasting away in my inventory would help my Caster.


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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by barrywilkins on Fri May 17, 2013 3:10 pm


    no sure i follow your logic on how having upgraded weapons wasting away in my inventory would help my Caster
    Well theres that whole paragraph I wrote about those pesky great magic barrier users that hardcounter your character if thats the only setup you'll ever use no matter what happens. With those stats though, you could easily switch to a lightning claymore/rapier/winged spear and try and ride out the storm while being able to do something other than pray you somehow don't get hit the entire time.

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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Animaaal on Fri May 17, 2013 3:11 pm

    I say 1 outta 5 silly

    Asking if I have factual evidence??? Uh...no I guessed (an informed guess mind you), but you caught me. Shrug

    PS-I think I'd win that "wager" (slams down a twenty)... Well What is it


    PSS-Again, there is obviously a need for a "respec option" or something of the like in Dark Souls for the pvp community. This is just a poor solution.

    I doubt it would be the reason pvp stays alive. People can use the forums and trade ya know. But then again, lots of people have jobs, families, and other responsibilities.

    Personally, I'd go through the adventure again. I'm just worried about what will happen to the community in DS2 if these kinds of actions are deemed to be acceptable. It could create a "hack/glitch to win" environment, in which case DS2 would be no different than DCUO.

    Imo of course.

    PSSS-Anyone else gonna take this bet?
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri May 17, 2013 3:21 pm

    barrywilkins wrote:

    no sure i follow your logic on how having upgraded weapons wasting away in my inventory would help my Caster
    Well theres that whole paragraph I wrote about those pesky great magic barrier users that hardcounter your character if thats the only setup you'll ever use no matter what happens. With those stats though, you could easily switch to a lightning claymore/rapier/winged spear and try and ride out the storm while being able to do something other than pray you somehow don't get hit the entire time.

    my original character had a +5 chaos/lightening Claymore, and a +5 chaos Rapier i swapped to.



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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by barrywilkins on Fri May 17, 2013 3:30 pm


    my original character had a +5 chaos/lightening Claymore, and a +5 chaos Rapier i swapped to.
    There's about 20 different weapons you could also use that you didn't upgrade in that case. Might I ask why? All of them could certainly be useful in certain situations.
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri May 17, 2013 3:34 pm

    barrywilkins wrote:

    my original character had a +5 chaos/lightening Claymore, and a +5 chaos Rapier i swapped to.
    There's about 20 different weapons you could also use that you didn't upgrade in that case. Might I ask why? All of them could certainly be useful in certain situations.

    because you can use something doesn't mean you are going to use something.

    the build was made to use the Moonlight Great sword and Velka's rapier, so i had a back up Great sword and Back up rapier to compliment my main weapons.


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    Maneater_Mildred
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Fri May 17, 2013 3:39 pm

    Sorry animal I think I'm confused. lol
    After reading your post in another thread im nor sure if you were saying 1 in 5 would grief or 1 in 5 would PvP.... I read it as 1 in 5 would PvP 4 in 5 would grief.... Sorry if my stupidity got it around the wrong way...


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    barrywilkins
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    Re: the Mega Mule

    Post by barrywilkins on Fri May 17, 2013 3:41 pm

    because you can use something doesn't mean you are going to use something.
    Maybe not you, but I'll sure use whatever I have to gain an edge over an opponent in a fight, and there are quite a few people who'd do the same. As it is, I've got a character that pretty much hard counters yours but, could feasibly be defeated by having a couple more weapons at your disposal such as a bow/pike.

    However, its becoming rather clear to me that neither of us is making any headway in convincing the other of anything. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this matter.

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    Re: the Mega Mule

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