What are your personal rules in a duel?

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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 12:19 am

    goober0331 wrote:Well obviously out of respect for the other person you are fighting. However even if it was meant for good, which I doubt since its DkS, people will abuse it, which they do. Just look at the backstab.

    Its nothing personal against anyone. I just dont bow cause I dont respect anyone. I'm here to kill you. If you want some pleasantries to make the death easier to swallow than fine, be my guest. However I'm not participating.

    See this is what I'm talkin about. There is ZERO wrong with this mentality (except for the I respect no one thing imo). Play within the game's parameters I get it, I'm just anti-glitch (for the most part) and completely anti-hack.....however....

    Like, would reim get pissed if I black crystal'd him if he backstabbed a bower in the forest?
    (which I dont think he'd do silly )...or do it, who cares really?

    People also say Dark Souls is a pve game, so bows are for white/gold phantoms only in the eyes of the developer? I dont think so. As a matter of fact, I dont think FROM would release Dark Souls if the online play was for whatever reason, not available.


    Last edited by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon May 13, 2013 12:23 am

    If a host bows to me in the forest, I don't BS him. I'm not that stupid. If I see that, I'm panning the camera around looking for the fog-ringed phantom with a rapier.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon May 13, 2013 12:26 am

    goober0331 wrote:Well obviously out of respect for the other person you are fighting. However even if it was meant for good, which I doubt since its DkS, people will abuse it, which they do. Just look at the backstab.

    Its nothing personal against anyone. I just dont bow cause I dont respect anyone. I'm here to kill you. If you want some pleasantries to make the death easier to swallow than fine, be my guest. However I'm not participating.
    The purpose for rules is not to follow them in a random invasion, this thread is about rules for dueling, which is different from random PvP because it entails limiting by agreement broken or overpowered aspects of the game to make the fight itself conform more to a standard of balance expected of a competitive player versus player game.

    In other words, vanilla DkS is not balanced; therefore, people agree on rules to make it more balanced. This is why dueling occurs at specific accepted soul levels; those are soul levels where various builds and tactics are more closely balanced. For example, at SL100 "buffing a weapon with magic" requires sacrifices that give the build advantages and disadvantages. At SL400, "buffing" exceeds all other melee weapon tactics, limiting a build's choices if it wants to stay competitive. An Elemental build sacrifices slightly lower damage at SL100 for slightly higher HP and equip load compared to a scaling build, whereas at SL400 everyone has 99 Vit and End and Ele builds are simply weaker than scaling ones in every regard. Setting rules for "fair" dueling follows the same principle because some tactics are brokenly overpowered and ruin game balance. Games like Street fighter have developer-engineered balance. DkS, in terms of dueling, has community-constructed balance.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 12:31 am

    reim0027 wrote:If a host bows to me in the forest, I don't BS him. I'm not that stupid. If I see that, I'm panning the camera around looking for the fog-ringed phantom with a rapier.

    First off, didnt mean to offend you...sorry if I did, I was just using that as an example of preferences. We obviously play different in the forest lol.

    For instance some people simply just "rapid-fire block" as a sign of courtesy. MOST people ALWAYS do something. Even really serious DMBs.

    I gues when I asked why did FROM create the emote method, what did they really have in mind?...communication??? Imo no. The emotes suck in that way. The souls games are not something you could just go, "Hey...points forward" and expect the newbie host you're doing phantom work for to understand the slaughter ahead.

    The only way to get through a souls game is to die.....a lot. NO phantom, idc how good they are is gonna guide a fresh rookie throgh a board with emotes...no one.

    ALSO after reading Ghadis's statement...I realized how off tpoic I'm heading....but......*posts


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon May 13, 2013 12:33 am

    Ghadis_God wrote:
    goober0331 wrote:Well obviously out of respect for the other person you are fighting. However even if it was meant for good, which I doubt since its DkS, people will abuse it, which they do. Just look at the backstab.

    Its nothing personal against anyone. I just dont bow cause I dont respect anyone. I'm here to kill you. If you want some pleasantries to make the death easier to swallow than fine, be my guest. However I'm not participating.
    The purpose for rules is not to follow them in a random invasion, this thread is about rules for dueling, which is different from random PvP because it entails limiting by agreement broken or overpowered aspects of the game to make the fight itself conform more to a standard of balance expected of a competitive player versus player game.

    In other words, vanilla DkS is not balanced; therefore, people agree on rules to make it more balanced. This is why dueling occurs at specific accepted soul levels; those are soul levels where various builds and tactics are more closely balanced. For example, at SL100 "buffing a weapon with magic" requires sacrifices that give the build advantages and disadvantages. At SL400, "buffing" exceeds all other melee weapon tactics, limiting a build's choices if it wants to stay competitive. An Elemental build sacrifices slightly lower damage at SL100 for slightly higher HP and equip load compared to a scaling build, whereas at SL400 everyone has 99 Vit and End and Ele builds are simply weaker than scaling ones in every regard. Setting rules for "fair" dueling follows the same principle because some tactics are brokenly overpowered and ruin game balance. Games like Street fighter have developer-engineered balance. DkS, in terms of dueling, has community-constructed balance.

    I've already stated how I view invasions and duels as equal.

    If the community wants to put arbitrary caps and rules on things to make their fights seem "fairer" than fine, have you rules. It wont stop you from dying, it only makes people complain more.

    And this game is fairly balanced. Lag is really the only negative thing about it. Everything has a counter in this game, EVERYTHING. Putting artificial checks and balances on things isnt necessary for me to kill you.



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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon May 13, 2013 12:33 am

    LOL. I wasn't offended at all. I was merely commenting how the "bows" in the forest are different than elsewhere. They are more likely to set up a trap than to show respect. I'm not falling for that.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 12:42 am

    @reim

    K cool big grin . See I was a catbro for...a weekend maybe??? lol. I'd hear about how bad it was from the catbro's point of view and think to myself, "WTF man? I have fought some coola$$ catbros. :suspect: " No wonder I made so many friends in there lol.

    See I always thought the catbros were the pros. If I acted cool, I'd get some SWEET presents. I'd get slabs, stuff, etc just for not jumping and ganking....but I digress, anyways thats smart reim.

    @goober

    I think invasions and duels have completely different definitons relative to this game,
    so I think the only way to say that is,

    "I don't duel......EVER. I also gank, I backstab bowers, and show ZERO ettiquette. I have zero chivalry and play to only win. If I use a RRS, I jump immediately....."

    ...that about right?


    Last edited by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 12:47 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling structure)
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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon May 13, 2013 12:49 am

    goober0331 wrote:
    Ghadis_God wrote:
    goober0331 wrote:Well obviously out of respect for the other person you are fighting. However even if it was meant for good, which I doubt since its DkS, people will abuse it, which they do. Just look at the backstab.

    Its nothing personal against anyone. I just dont bow cause I dont respect anyone. I'm here to kill you. If you want some pleasantries to make the death easier to swallow than fine, be my guest. However I'm not participating.
    The purpose for rules is not to follow them in a random invasion, this thread is about rules for dueling, which is different from random PvP because it entails limiting by agreement broken or overpowered aspects of the game to make the fight itself conform more to a standard of balance expected of a competitive player versus player game.

    In other words, vanilla DkS is not balanced; therefore, people agree on rules to make it more balanced. This is why dueling occurs at specific accepted soul levels; those are soul levels where various builds and tactics are more closely balanced. For example, at SL100 "buffing a weapon with magic" requires sacrifices that give the build advantages and disadvantages. At SL400, "buffing" exceeds all other melee weapon tactics, limiting a build's choices if it wants to stay competitive. An Elemental build sacrifices slightly lower damage at SL100 for slightly higher HP and equip load compared to a scaling build, whereas at SL400 everyone has 99 Vit and End and Ele builds are simply weaker than scaling ones in every regard. Setting rules for "fair" dueling follows the same principle because some tactics are brokenly overpowered and ruin game balance. Games like Street fighter have developer-engineered balance. DkS, in terms of dueling, has community-constructed balance.

    I've already stated how I view invasions and duels as equal.

    If the community wants to put arbitrary caps and rules on things to make their fights seem "fairer" than fine, have you rules. It wont stop you from dying, it only makes people complain more.

    And this game is fairly balanced. Lag is really the only negative thing about it. Everything has a counter in this game, EVERYTHING. Putting artificial checks and balances on things isnt necessary for me to kill you.
    You don't get to control what is and isn't a duel, the definition isn't up to you. If a person invades me or vice versa, it's not a duel, even if they bow, because we're playing by different rules. When I fought billy today at an arranged time, place, and Soul Level with an agreed-upon set of rules, that's a duel. And you haven't played enough DkS or learned enough about PvP to think the game is balanced as it is. The point of the rules is not to restrict how other people play, (I don't hold a forest ganker or Parish Darkwraith to any kind of standard) but to create common ground among people who are already connected so we don't have to complain. It's like playing Super Smash Brothers with friends and all agreeing to turn a certain item off because we all agree it makes the game less enjoyable.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon May 13, 2013 12:50 am

    I dont view duels and invasions as separate, just because the community has said they are, and the community has agreed upon not healing during a fight for example, doesnt make it so.

    Cant tell you how many times people bow, but then do all the "off limit" things that apparently arent present in duels.

    I fight the same for a "random invasion" as I do a "duel". Doesnt make any difference to me what people want to call it, or how that begin the fight.

    And dont start assuming I do all these "unhonorable" things because I disagree with how nitpicky the community is with this game.

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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 12:54 am

    @goober

    I dont think anyone has said you are playing wrong, only that you dont understand the difference in the 2 concepts.

    You're kinda saying "boxing" and a "fight to the death" are not different because you think boxing should end in death each contest has a winner.

    Play how you want no one really cares around here I guess, but dont blame us for assumptions....
    ...net is non-personal....thereby is natural...

    Happy hunting bud! cheers

    PS-Maybe you should try a fight club sometime...might change your mind.

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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon May 13, 2013 1:05 am

    Jesus christ. I now fully understand why I have left these forums before.

    I have said so many times, I dont view duels and invasions as separate. That does not mean I dont understand how the community defines things, I just wont conform to their levels of redundancy.

    I dont need to play this game with all these imaginary rules that somehow make fights fairer, or I dont need to set-up "duels" with other players to make all the "overpowered" things about this game a non-factor.

    And yes I have participated in FC. Please stop assuming I dont know anything about this game, I've been very active since it came out.


    And I am the kind of Smash Bros player who doesnt like any items being taken away. All's fair in love and war.

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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 1:09 am

    goober0331 wrote:Jesus christ..

    I find that %$#@ing offensive coming from you and your tone.

    goober0331 wrote:...I have said so many times, I dont view duels and invasions as separate...

    THEY ARE DIFFERENT

    As to the rest, just STFU ALREADY. Leave. You are off-topic…….FACT.
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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon May 13, 2013 1:12 am

    I see that completely different goober. For me an invasion is anything where the point is to kill the other without rules or having a small consent to the other person's feelings. A duel is where two or more agree to fight for fun or get something where both can look at as a fun intentional thing, where common rules and sense is followed by both. A bow is a sign of respect in duels and not invasions. These imaginary rules you say are to me common sense and things that people follow for fun. A backstab is not much fun and does not show good skill if that is what is used to win.

    Also there is no mention of anyone assuming you as a new player or anything else. Though since you left is can be said that you have need to be caught up with today's forum. Which is harmless.


    Last edited by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon May 13, 2013 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon May 13, 2013 1:13 am

    Lol, thanks for playing buddy, and for reinforcing the view I have about the majority of the DkS community.
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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon May 13, 2013 1:13 am

    Look, you're talking to a Darkstalker here. I know all about doing everything for the sake of the kill, but it's a separate thing from dueling, and I do and enjoy both. Both fighting random people with absolute killer intent and playing with rules designed to make 1v1 fights more balanced. The list of rules I posted has nothing to do with how I play while invading, it's about how I generally believe balances the game in a duel, which are open to change depending on the other person.

    And by dueling, I don't mean random people, even if I pick up an RSS in the moonpit and we both bow. I mean prearranged fights with rules both people agree to follow. That's the definition of dueling. Most people in DkS never do that, never even know it exists, but that's the definition of it. Saying you don't see them as different is like bringing brass knuckles to a boxing match and saying you don't see the difference between boxing and self-defense. Chances are they won't let you even fight because boxing is a separate thing whether you like it or not, and no one will agree to duel with you if you treat it like random PvP.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 1:15 am

    goober0331 wrote:Lol, thanks for playing buddy, and for reinforcing the view I have about the majority of the DkS community.

    Bow <---its called a bow.
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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon May 13, 2013 1:17 am

    Take it easy guys. This tends to be a heated topic. I don't want this to get out of hand. Please be respectful of each other's opinions.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon May 13, 2013 1:17 am

    1. No flaming. Debates and disagreements are fine and even encouraged, but incendiary comments and insulting posts are not. This also extends to abusive and offensive language, and circumventing the language filter.
    Let me put this here to remind people that we do not do anything that falls under this rule and keep it civil here.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon May 13, 2013 1:20 am

    I'm sorry I dont view it as different.

    Participating in a FC, invasions, or soap sign summons, I will fight the same and kill you. It does not matter to me how you wish to call it, how the fight commences or anything else.

    It does not matter to me if "rules" are agreed upon, for the things being restricted are not things I use anyway, so therefore it is redundant to me.

    None of these communal definitions matter to me.

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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon May 13, 2013 1:23 am

    I can see where you are coming from. You goal is to kill the other person. So, that is the same.

    For me, they are very much different. It is similar to an underground fight club vs boxing. Both goals are the same. The fighting rules are different.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 1:26 am

    How can someone say a duel and an invasion do not have different definitons???

    Even if you define them literally, IRL scenarios, they are completely different.

    Even after 4 or 5 posts were respectfully saying, "Play how you want bro, no one cares...its cool.", the guy still insinuated that we are calling him out.

    No one called him a name, no one, said "you're doing it wrong", no one said "Only noobs gank"...nothing. Nothing was said in that regard at all.

    They are different BY DEFINITION and he/she was going off-topic on purpose for noooooooooooo reason.

    2 things I cant stand:
    -racial/ethnic/religious slurs
    -name calling

    I'm %$#@ing fine with getting ganked...been fine with it since Demon's Souls. Back then you had to spend souls after getting ganked...usually. %$#@ing Scraping Spear. :x
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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Thedeadships on Mon May 13, 2013 1:27 am

    Dibsville wrote:-I only backstab if I can clearly see my opponent going for one or I'm being ganked
    -If I see a 1v1, I decide whether to join depending on the location I'm in and each person's setup
    -If I see a Giantdad, I do "Well! What is it!", then proceed to slaughter him
    -Only heal if my opponent heals, I'm being ganked, or it's obvious they don't deserve their kills (Ex. someone backstabbing me while I'm Waving, or someone who's spamming Gold Tracer)

    That's about it.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon May 13, 2013 1:27 am

    goober0331 wrote:I'm sorry I dont view it as different.

    Participating in a FC, invasions, or soap sign summons, I will fight the same and kill you. It does not matter to me how you wish to call it, how the fight commences or anything else.

    It does not matter to me if "rules" are agreed upon, for the things being restricted are not things I use anyway, so therefore it is redundant to me.

    None of these communal definitions matter to me.


    Thats better. There was no need for any of that crap.
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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon May 13, 2013 1:31 am

    Animaal - it is a matter of perspective. The end goal is the exact same. How you get the goal is the difference. Some people don't distinguish between the two and take the same path to reach the goal. Others, like you, take different paths based on your situation.


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    Re: What are your personal rules in a duel?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon May 13, 2013 1:34 am

    goober0331 wrote:Jesus christ. I now fully understand why I have left these forums before.

    I have said so many times, I dont view duels and invasions as separate. That does not mean I dont understand how the community defines things, I just wont conform to their levels of redundancy.

    I dont need to play this game with all these imaginary rules that somehow make fights fairer, or I dont need to set-up "duels" with other players to make all the "overpowered" things about this game a non-factor.

    And yes I have participated in FC. Please stop assuming I dont know anything about this game, I've been very active since it came out.


    And I am the kind of Smash Bros player who doesnt like any items being taken away. All's fair in love and war.
    Idk who downrepped you but you didn't deserve it. I just gotta say that all rules are imaginary and my fights are more fulfilling when I duel, it's not about hating "cheap" tactics. It's just about playing the game me and another person want to play instead of the one that came in the box.


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