I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

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    Serious_Much
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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:21 pm

    Zechk's on?! what?

    where you been? silly


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:33 pm

    I'm not sure exactly how the testing and debugging works in the gaming industry, but I would think that this would have been resolved if it really was a glitch.


    It could have nothing to do with lore and simply have been place to make creating pvp characters.

    Just the fact that you keep covenant ranks and sins keeps me on my toes about this.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:58 pm

    the description does say it is derided as an object of unbridled greed... sorta fits with its use eh? plus things even out as theres now a plethora of twinked out sunbros and other phantoms willing to help, if you invade honestly expect to get one shotted by the phantoms with the host.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:09 pm

    Also, in pve, the box has very little use. I use it in pvp to narrow my inventory down to the few items I actually use so I can switch my equipment on the fly during an invasion. But without item burden like in DeS there's no need for it.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by strangejoy on Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:14 pm

    If the covenent of artorias and the charred ring were not copied over, than I might agree with OP. However, both of these are copied over, and they can theoretically break the game by allowing lava walking at plot inappropriate times. There are videos of people attacking Ceaseless Discharge's feet and crotch before even opening the sealed lord gates. You can kill 4 kings without even touching Sif. You can't even do this stuff in NG+, which is when your character actually carries over.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by djgq42 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:24 pm

    ErrJon6661 wrote:Also, in pve, the box has very little use. I use it in pvp to narrow my inventory down to the few items I actually use so I can switch my equipment on the fly during an invasion. But without item burden like in DeS there's no need for it.

    actually the box in pve cuts down on farming and grinding dramatcially. it also allows you to open up areas earlier.

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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:32 pm

    Domhnall wrote:I don't wan't to break any rules saying how to do the glitch or anything, but really? They must have the single worst testing squad out there if no one caught that. It's so easy to do, and to do it is such a casual action, I'm surprised most people don't just figure it out on accident. I think it's intended, but like SeriousMuch said, gotta wait till the next patch to find out.
    *cough*skyrim*cough*

    OT i don’t really know what to think about it, it seems a little to convenient but im going with that it is a glitch until someone proves that you can discover something new with it.
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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by xXDaemonarchXx on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:18 pm

    It's a glitch....imo. glitchy stuff happens in the asylum after doing it. Like the 2 red titanite, and the estus guy.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Toastfacekillah on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:39 pm

    xXDaemonarchXx wrote:It's a glitch....imo. glitchy stuff happens in the asylum after doing it. Like the 2 red titanite, and the estus guy.

    ^^^^ This.

    I use it all the time to make new sl120 toons and dish out a little punishment to invading griefers in the burg/parish on the way. I'm under no illusions tho - its clearly a glitch (imho) and I'm not kidding myself that its isn't. I don't think its game-breaking tho as has been suggested previously by some, as you've still got to get the stuff in the first place. I just think its probably not at the top of Froms list of things to fix.

    my 2cs


    Last edited by Toastfacekillah on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by DxV04 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:47 pm

    I always have thought that the dragon head glitch was not a glitch but intentional. How convenient that the cloranthy ring is right on the way to the dragon covenant. It would not surprise me that the BB is also intentional. However, it is all speculation on my part.
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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Sunbro4evar on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:00 pm

    I really cant decide on the matter but I'm sort of leaning towards glitch. :?:


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by CrackSouls on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:16 pm

    Glitch.
    Why would they make Slabs and such so rare? Every playthrough seems to insinuate that you need to work hard to achieve fully maxed gear. Now I find myself facing +10 everything armor at SL 30 all the time... wah? I highly doubt From intended this, or else they'd just make Slabs and other drops more common.
    I don't mind playing through the first several bosses alone, but I also feel bad for all the new players who have to deal with this Griefer and Anti-Griefer metagame... It's not game-breaking, but it's annoying as hell for newbs and probably worsens their first-playthrough experience compared to people like me (before all these glitches were discovered on a broad scale).


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Emergence on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:58 pm

    Preparing a patch is not as straightforward as it seems and depends on game architecture. We have to first assume, that what they are trying to patch is indeed patchable and if so the devs have to determine if it is worth the time/cost. In this particular instance, there is not enough urgency to patch because although griefing has resulted, it is safe to say the game has not been broken for the large majority. In Demon's, duping was likely not looked on highly by From, but it was not worth the investment to patch. Now with Dark, there are two consoles to patch for.

    Whether it is connected in some way to lore, the bottom line is that it is still being used for less scrupulous means. Secrets in coding also don't seem like From's MO, in my opinion. I keep going back to King's Field on that thought.

    We will see if we can get some sort of answer about it.





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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:15 am

    i'll have to agree. its very convenient but no real good has come of it thats not reactionary to the bad thats come of it. @ hello. if youd like to glitch test a game with trillions of variables and make it perfect and glitch free, go ahead. I eagerly await the result.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Reaperfan on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:53 am

    There's no contesting that it's a glitch. The matter is if FROM wants to remove it or not. Seeing as how they never removed Stockpile Thomas duping from Demon's Souls I can imagine them keeping this as a time-saving method for those who wish to use it.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by zRegulas9z on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:18 am

    Toastfacekillah wrote:
    xXDaemonarchXx wrote:It's a glitch....imo. glitchy stuff happens in the asylum after doing it. Like the 2 red titanite, and the estus guy.

    ^^^^ This.

    I use it all the time to make new sl120 toons and dish out a little punishment to invading griefers in the burg/parish on the way. I'm under no illusions tho - its clearly a glitch (imho) and I'm not kidding myself that its isn't. I don't think its game-breaking tho as has been suggested previously by some, as you've still got to get the stuff in the first place. I just think its probably not at the top of Froms list of things to fix.

    my 2cs

    I agree with pretty much all of this as yeah its not game breaking but its certainly damaging. And on the note of how you still have to get all the stuff in the first place while that is true but they then go on to use the glitch to transfer it all over to a sl1 character to invade low levels with seriosly over powered gear that unless you spent hours upon hours struggling at sl1 to endgame you just wouldnt have acces to it and that is the part of the glitch that tiptoes on the borderline of gamebreaking
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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:28 am

    I wasn't really intending to have everyone discuss the ethics of the "glitch".


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:46 am

    I know errJon, I thought it was a decent idea too...

    Make a poll for whether people think we should use it or not? I will if you don't silly

    and everyone please stop discussing how to perform the glitch, the forum doesn't encourage it's use happy


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:38 pm

    I don't know much about game-making--I just play them! But it seems to me like this would be one easy as hell fix. Without going into too much detail about how to perform the glitch... When you press triangle at the character select screen to see its stats, all it has to load are the character's stats, not the whole freaking contents of his bottomless box!

    NOTE: if you do not know how to perform the bb glitch and want to try it out after reading my above comment, you will probably lose your character. So don't!

    About the ethics of the glitch (are we not discussing this too?): I don't see the BB glitch being the problem itself. The problem, in my opinion, is that you can bring such high level gear to the beginning areas of the game at all and stomp everyone and everything. Since I could always obtain everything I wanted at however low a level I wanted before, I don't see the glitch making much of a difference. It has changed the number of people with high level gear... but doesn't change that we could always do that anyways. And without the bb glitch, I would never have done the research on Catalysts Mag Adj, for example.

    About lore: so from what I've said so far, if it's easy to fix, and doesn't change anything we could do without it... there must be a reason From hasn't patched it! I can see 4 possible reasons:

    - They're lazy (unlikely)
    - They don't want to put out another patch just for this (patches are costly, it's possible)
    - They encourage lazy playing by giving this shortcut (I wouldn't think so... since everything else in this game screams the opposite)
    - It's tied to lore

    These are the possible reasons I can think of why From has left the BB glitch in.


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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:53 pm

    I'm not sure if it was meant to be tied to the lore. The description pointing to greed might be that or it could be they're referring to me who still picks up items from hollow soldiers because MAYBE it will be a shard and not another set of leggings and ultimately stores it all in the box. However, look at all the discussion in this and other threads. Part of what makes a "great" game rather than "good" is the response from the community. While perhaps not an intentional in game lore item, it's definitely part of the lore as created through practice. Similarly, From may not have anticipated a truce between gravelords and forest covenant members but the community that participated in this made it so. This also has become lore. I think that From may have just decided it's now a part of the story, intended or not. The griefers fit in with the concept of greed. Warriors who can't let go of their possessions.

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    Re: I'm going to come out and say something kind of controversial.

    Post by Yukon on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:59 pm

    I think more likely than not they just dont have the money to address every little issue with the game, sure they would like to but lets face it FROM is a small company, their sound room is a closet. They didnt fix the stockpile dupe in demon's I doubt they will fix this, atleast not anytime soon. And if they dont fix it I dont think it means its plot related at all, it's just because they dont have the money to spend on a glitch that really isn't that big of a deal once you leave the parish behind.

    Sure bb glitching sucks when you are making a new character legitly and want to co-op with a friend, but its not game breaking in any manner. it just means there are people without the skill to low level run the game.. low level griefing the begininners. Once you aren't a beginner who cares?


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