Infinite time loop

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    Infinite time loop

    Post by Hue on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:41 am

    The chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus...

    How do you explain this? Are there infinite Dark Souls playthroughs going on in Lordran simultaneously?(excluding the chosen undead who hasn't bought the DLC)


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by FirstOfTheDead on Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:25 am

    A question of some sort i asked early and still no answer...I think the time loop stops when you finish first time your game, afther that is just fun...because your character is the one that replays the game, not other chosen undead...so one time kill Manus and that's it...Don't know if it makes sense to you but...


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:48 am

    "Go then, there are other worlds than these"
    -Jake, from The Dark Tower series by Stephen King

    actual spoiler if you're interested in reading these books:
    Fittingly, Jake says this line as he's about to fall into what has been described as an abyss


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:20 pm

    Think of time in a mathematical sense, consider that between every N there is an infinite real number Z. For example:

    Between the integers 1 and 2 there is an infinite 1.nnnnn...nnn

    Now, there is a proof for this but I won't go into it here. Now, the fact that 2 exists mean that you can't be stuck in the infinite, it simply illustrates that there are an infinite web of possibilities that will play out and not just in that one situation but in the one after it, otherwise it would all collapse.
    For example:

    Say you start at point 0, from this point you have a literally infinite amount of decisions to make which would act as 0.(a1)(a2)....(aN) so even though there are an infinite amount of choices, once you make one you must progress through to point 1, at which point you have a similar issue with 1.(a1)(a2)...(aN) which once you make a decision you move to point 2.

    So, every possible real number Z is representative of a chosen undead and a path they take, so while it seems like a loop it is merely a specific set. ALL specific sets playing out in ALL dimensions at ALL times.
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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by EverlastingRat on Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:48 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:"Go then, there are other worlds than these"
    -Jake, from The Dark Tower series by Stephen King

    actual spoiler if you're interested in reading these books:
    Fittingly, Jake says this line as he's about to fall into what has been described as an abyss

    Shhht, I remember i read that series back in High school, takes me back

    But yeah I think I made a joke about how this shht is similar to the whole Terminator time travel issues hahaha


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Hue on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:04 pm

    alchemydesign wrote:1.nnnnn...nnn
    For som reason, this retained my attention when i tried to read it out loud


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed May 01, 2013 12:53 am

    Lol, i didn't feel like typing out all of the (a sub n)'s....I hope I made some sense at least?
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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by LunarFog on Thu May 02, 2013 12:32 am

    It states that the timeline in lordran is all screwy. So I suspect that there are a countless number of different timelines and universes where different things happen.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by alchemydesign on Thu May 02, 2013 6:26 am

    Yep, lol, but really I don't think it's the multiple world theories' problem, but either the First Flame dying, or perhaps the failed creation of Izalith's that probably caused bleed-throughs. In my opinion, that is.
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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by SadPanda on Sat May 11, 2013 6:53 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:"Go then, there are other worlds than these"
    -Jake, from The Dark Tower series by Stephen King

    actual spoiler if you're interested in reading these books:
    Fittingly, Jake says this line as he's about to fall into what has been described as an abyss
    THAT SERIES IS THE ****. Finally, I've met someone else who has read it.
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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Dibsville on Sat May 11, 2013 6:55 pm

    Soulception


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:22 am

    I think it's a gameplay mechanic, considering that FROM isn't going to put the DLC on the market, just for one person to beat it and then it's over for everyone.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Scurrilous Straggler on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:23 am

    Hmm, I've always thought it was just a loop of some kind. When my character wakes up in their cell in a ng+ all they remember is that they were a mage or a knight or a hunter or something and something terrible happened and they ended up here without memory. As the story goes, I don't see how, within the mythos of the game, any action taken at the 'end' of the game would actually be a good outcome in any sense. It would lead to some kind of repetition which would end up in the same way. I don't think there's anything that can be done, in the game, which would bring a true end to the cycle in a permanent way. It will always repeat until the old gods, or whatever, decide the outcome is favourable.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:38 am

    Hachouma wrote:The chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus, many years later, in that timeline, a chosen undead goes back in time to stop Manus...

    How do you explain this? Are there infinite Dark Souls playthroughs going on in Lordran simultaneously?(excluding the chosen undead who hasn't bought the DLC)

    Exactly the same mechanic is in the normal game anyways..

    Lordran is said to have distorted time. We are all the chosen undead, and all follow the path of the chosen undead, but each of our worlds are separate and distinct from each other.

    They basically made the whole invasion/white soap concept make sense by saying we all live in almost identical parallel universes, which are made possible by lordran's time distortion.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:39 am

    Scurrilous Straggler wrote:Hmm, I've always thought it was just a loop of some kind. When my character wakes up in their cell in a ng+ all they remember is that they were a mage or a knight or a hunter or something and something terrible happened and they ended up here without memory. As the story goes, I don't see how, within the mythos of the game, any action taken at the 'end' of the game would actually be a good outcome in any sense. It would lead to some kind of repetition which would end up in the same way. I don't think there's anything that can be done, in the game, which would bring a true end to the cycle in a permanent way. It will always repeat until the old gods, or whatever, decide the outcome is favourable.

    Personally I don't think NG+ is meant to be built into the lore, I just think it's there for an extra challenge for players.

    The only explanation I could think of is NG+ could make sense if your character was reincarnated post link the fire ending, but for dark lord ending it makes zero sense, as the age of fire and lords would have been destroyed.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Scurrilous Straggler on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:54 am

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Scurrilous Straggler wrote:Hmm, I've always thought it was just a loop of some kind. When my character wakes up in their cell in a ng+ all they remember is that they were a mage or a knight or a hunter or something and something terrible happened and they ended up here without memory. As the story goes, I don't see how, within the mythos of the game, any action taken at the 'end' of the game would actually be a good outcome in any sense. It would lead to some kind of repetition which would end up in the same way. I don't think there's anything that can be done, in the game, which would bring a true end to the cycle in a permanent way. It will always repeat until the old gods, or whatever, decide the outcome is favourable.

    Personally I don't think NG+ is meant to be built into the lore, I just think it's there for an extra challenge for players.

    The only explanation I could think of is NG+ could make sense if your character was reincarnated post link the fire ending, but for dark lord ending it makes zero sense, as the age of fire and lords would have been destroyed.

    Both endings I believe were unfavourable outcomes for the reigning gods and you /are/ reincarnated or rebirthed with lingering memories of your previous lives.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:05 am

    Thing is in the dark lord ending you live on as the dark lord- you don't die in that ending, and seeing as undead are timeless is makes no logical lore sense- in that case NG+ is just a game feature really.

    Also link the fire is actually meant to be a positive ending for the gods- you continue the age of fire so the gods- Gwyndolin using the embodiment of his sister in thi case- will continue on.

    In my honest opinion though, NG+ is just a feature for challenge, there's no story meant to be linked into it- otherwise there would be subtle story changes and differences in people's attitudes for the player to take note on, not to mention the world would be completely different..

    I think this case of trying to link NG+ into the lore somehow is again people trying to take too much from very little information. Admittedly lore is pretty much only speculation as that is how FROM designed it, but there are some things people just presume without any true basis as fact (like the firstborn)


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Scurrilous Straggler on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:22 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Thing is in the dark lord ending you live on as the dark lord- you don't die in that ending, and seeing as undead are timeless is makes no logical lore sense- in that case NG+ is just a game feature really.

    Also link the fire is actually meant to be a positive ending for the gods- you continue the age of fire so the gods- Gwyndolin using the embodiment of his sister in thi case- will continue on.

    In my honest opinion though, NG+ is just a feature for challenge, there's no story meant to be linked into it- otherwise there would be subtle story changes and differences in people's attitudes for the player to take note on, not to mention the world would be completely different..

    I think this case of trying to link NG+ into the lore somehow is again people trying to take too much from very little information. Admittedly lore is pretty much only speculation as that is how FROM designed it, but there are some things people just presume without any true basis as fact (like the firstborn)

    The vast majority of everything is a speculation based on little evidence in this game.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:47 pm

    There are two kinds of extrapolation for lore analysts. One is where logic is considered (as well as it can be in a fantasy game) and evidence is weighed. The other is where someone gets an idea in their mid and triea to force the lore to fit.

    That said, there is still a whole lot of different takes on the story. It is pretty well documented that I find the Dark Lord ending to be basically the stupidest decision ever, but others stand by it, even though I have provided a significant amount of evidence.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:58 pm

    The Fire ending:

    You link the fire, so that the spread of the abyss can be temporarly stopped, you are killing yourself for a temporary solution. So why not choose the dark ending? This is why.


    The Dark Ending:

    You leave after killing Gwyn, and become the dark lord and let the abyss spread quickly... Hooray? Not in the eyes of these people who had dealings with the abyss.

    >Oolacile
    >New Londo
    >Four Kings
    >Artorias
    >Manus

    Everyone we know who tried messing with the abyss, besides the only person who wants it to spread, was negatively effected by it!

    Oolacile resident's humanity went wild, and they became monstrosities.

    Manus's Humanity went wild and... yeah...

    New Londo was destroyed when it's kings turned to dark, and their royal knights corrupted and went hollow. (They hit their own buddies.)

    Four kings turned into ghost things when offered the power of the abyss.

    Artorias was possesed when trying to stop it, and tries killing Dusk's savior.

    Is the dark ending the way to go? No.

    Is the Fire ending the way to go? If you're an "Honourable" pet to the gods.

    My ending?

    Doing gesture dances with Patches.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Shkar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:49 pm

    I personally stand by the facf that the only real reference to the God's "rulership" is an obviously depressed person, and we know there are human rulers.

    That said, either way everyone benefits from the Age of Fire.


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:56 pm

    I find it amusing how the DLC completely changed the position of the endings.

    Pre DLC the dark lord was the way to go- age of man, elimination of the god's reign.. though it still does that.. In the absence of the flame the abyss spreads and ravages...

    Lol neither ending is any good now! one you're a slave, the other you cause destruction- lose/lose situation


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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:17 pm

    Maybe the key to being the dark lord is to only have one humanity, to reverse hollowing, then you will have 0 in your humanity storage, and will not go hollow. Humanity can't go wild then!



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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Gollumseverywhere on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:26 pm

    Or maybe your character is a psycho and wants to cause as much destruction as possible. This is actually part of the story I envisioned for my faith character. Driven insane by the realization he had killed the bieng he had spent his entire life, and death, fighting for.
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    Re: Infinite time loop

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:11 pm

    I say, partner up with Frampt and keep the undeads linking the flame, so you and him can troll together forever.


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