Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

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    Animaaal
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    Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:50 pm

    What kind of 'leaderboards' would you like?

    I'd like something similar to what Demon's Souls had.

    I'd like to see a S/A/B/C/D/E rating system with some tweaks.

    If you (as a phantom) either killed an invader or boss, then the host could only give you a S/A/B rating.

    If the host died before you could do either of those, you get a B rating by default.

    If you die before killing an invader or boss, then the host could only give you a B/C/D/E rating.

    Maybe there are some holes in this, but you guys get the idea.

    What kind of "leaderboard" would you like to see?

    This is post number 11, I just wanted to put it in the op:

    Animaaal wrote:Okay, I never discriminated the rating system in Demon's Souls. However, I havent played DeS in a looong time.
    Those points are inarguebale at this point. I concede.

    How about this:

    Prostration The Book of Blessings Prostration

    It would work this way:

    1) There is a count for every boss and invader you kill/have a part in killing.

    2) There are points or "blessings" awarded for every kill, varying on which boss you kill and their difficulty. This is assuming the end game bosses are actually harder and not like Gwyn's infamous "parry for the kill" reputation.

    3) Those points are then tallied into a total blessing count which anyone can look at. Similar to the Book of the Guilty.

    4) Furthermore, the individual statistics are further broken down when you look at "your" account.

    5) When looking at your account, it would tell you a more in depth statistical analysis. Such as" favorite weapon / number of deaths (maybe even to which bosses) / favorite armor combo /etc.

    Something like this maybe?!?!



    Last edited by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Seignar on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:01 pm

    Leaderboards are useless. There is no need for one at all, actually.

    The problem is that opinionated leaderboards are unreliable. Phantoms could bribe hosts with items. You could be summoned as a phantom by someone who you just invaded and be given a bad rating. You could be a friend and instantly have good rating, etc.

    The problem with statistical leaderboards is that it could lead the same issues with a K/D on a non-deathmatch play. It is, looks over efficiency. The rating system served no real purpose in Demon Souls other than for the hosts to hog all the souls if he/she pleased.

    Even if that was changed so that in Dark Souls 2, you got the same souls with a D or with an A, it would prove to be a useless system because it would only make some people not summon you because your ratings aren't up to standards:

    "Oh, hey help. Oh wait, he has bad rating! No summon"

    In Dark Souls 1 you would take any help and all players got fair chances to get summoned. If we had a rating system, certain players would immediately get discarded as option summons, hindering their experience. I know, because I would do selective summoning, I have in Demon Souls.


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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:02 pm

    Opinion.

    I like leaderboards, it adds a dimension to the game...in my opinion.
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by ublug on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:05 pm

    I prefer none, they tend to bring out the worst in people.
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Seignar on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:09 pm

    I would prefer personal statistics over leaderboards. Total deaths, NG cycle, Play time, invasion count, invasion wins, invader kills, host assistances, etc.


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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:14 pm

    True, but not always.

    Think outside the box guys. The Demon's Souls rating system was an example.

    Try this,

    1) Player has killed O and S (obviously insert boss name here). X amount of times and has died X amount of times and has X win ratio.

    2) Who has the most multiplayer victories, better yet, seperate them by: killed bosses / invaders killed / etc.

    The question was not, what kind of leaderboards would you like to see that would be just as useless as the hacked Book of the Guilty, or the Arena Board hacks, but something people would LIKE to see.

    That implies something (a new idea) that would work, be hack free, and be somewhat indiscriminate. I thought that was implied in the op. I apologize fornot being more specific.

    @Seignar

    Now we're getting somewhere. I like that idea too...obviously ^.

    Again, sorry for being so unspecific.

    New ideas and discussion of those ideas is the premise...continue please.
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:22 pm

    None, no leaderboards please do not have these things. These things are nothing but trouble. They bring out the worst in people, give people the right to insult others, and generally bring negative attention and make the concept of winning is everything stronger in this game. We all seen what happens when winning by any means is applied in Dark Souls. However I do like the idea of personal statistics.


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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:27 pm

    I dont believe that to be the case all the time.

    Take the arena board for example. A positive side-effect? It validated that Dark Souls is not as balanced as people think, and certain builds win the day.

    Also, we have rep here...should we get rid of that?
    ^I'm reaching....I know it.

    ***EDIT***

    Also, I'm changing the title a little. I didn't realize how misleading it is was until now....done.
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Phoenix Rising on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:37 pm

    I would love to see some kind of stat tracking system in place, that would be pretty interesting/useful. No leaderboards whatsoever though. I'll agree with everyone else and say it does bring out the worst in people, and will inevitably be hacked.


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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:40 pm

    The Demon's Souls rating system though was seriously flawed in that the players voted, it prompted people troll others and *** with their ratings. It's kind of like if hosts could indict their summons, imagine helping a guy a ton then having him give you an F.

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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:48 pm

    Okay, I never discriminated the rating system in Demon's Souls. However, I havent played DeS in a looong time.
    Those points are inarguebale at this point. I concede.

    How about this:

    Prostration The Book of Blessings Prostration

    It would work this way:

    1) There is a count for every boss and invader you kill/have a part in killing.

    2) There are points or "blessings" awarded for every kill, varying on which boss you kill and their difficulty. This is assuming the end game bosses are actually harder and not like Gwyn's infamous "parry for the kill" reputation.

    3) Those points are then tallied into a total blessing count which anyone can look at. Similar to the Book of the Guilty.

    4) Furthermore, the individual statistics are further broken down when you look at "your" account.

    5) When looking at your account, it would tell you a more in depth statistical analysis. Such as" favorite weapon / number of deaths (maybe even to which bosses) / favorite armor combo /etc.

    Something like this maybe?!?!
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:51 pm

    It might not be all that useful for players later into the meta, but that would probably be very handy for people new to the game so they can tell who to summon.

    The only issue I can see is that people who want experience with Co-Op may be left in the dust so that someone better can get summoned. That's and aspect I like of dark, is if you are new or experienced generally you have a similar chance of being summoned, outside of those that recognize gear. That way the people new to co-op can get experienced at doing it.

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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:55 pm

    People can still black crystal you to see your multi-player victory count.

    In Mario Kart Wii (i know i know), it tells you all kinds ofthings.

    How far you traveled, favorite character/car, etcetcetc.

    I had a couple characters that I would have loved to see some statistics on.

    Also, not everyone would discriminate. As a matter of fact, when I couldtell someone was new, I'd use the black crystal, and then maybe even friend them and help them with some drops.
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Seignar on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:32 pm

    I think that the book of blessing has a flaw in the sense that we'll get "Blessing farms". Player A goes Hulk on an early level and just speed runs to the (easiest boss) to farm blessings.

    For example, Player A would lay sign down in the Catacombs. Host summons and Player A just goes and shows of the shortcuts (implying host doesn't know them). They quickly get to Pinwheel and Player A, with his trusty (and OP) Dragon Greatsword, Getsuga Tenshos Pinwheel to death.

    What would happen is that the Catacombs would have more summons that it is needed because you hardly need help.




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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:42 pm

    What about a system that follows how you play without being influenced by people? Like the number of people you helped clear a certain area, invasion kills, etc. The success of the player and not a rating system by others who met the player?


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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Phoenix Rising on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:44 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:What about a system that follows how you play without being influenced by people? Like the number of people you helped clear a certain area, invasion kills, etc. The success of the player and not a rating system by others who met the player?

    This sounds very similar to world tendency from DeS. I like that prospect.


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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:50 pm

    Seignar wrote:I think that the book of blessing has a flaw in the sense that we'll get "Blessing farms". Player A goes Hulk on an early level and just speed runs to the (easiest boss) to farm blessings.

    For example, Player A would lay sign down in the Catacombs. Host summons and Player A just goes and shows of the shortcuts (implying host doesn't know them). They quickly get to Pinwheel and Player A, with his trusty (and OP) Dragon Greatsword, Getsuga Tenshos Pinwheel to death.

    What would happen is that the Catacombs would have more summons that it is needed because you hardly need help.




    Excellent point. You receive my thanks. Bow ...rethinking...

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:What about a system that follows how you play without being influenced by people? Like the number of people you helped clear a certain area, invasion kills, etc. The success of the player and not a rating system by others who met the player?

    This says a lot towards what I was thinking.

    I guess, the only type of "leaderboard" I would love to see, is one I can brag about in a "non-arena" way.

    I would love to see an extensive statistical description of my character so to speak.

    I would like to see how many enemies I killed with a certain weapon, my successful parry %, and my kill rate ratio against boss xyz.

    Then of course for bragging rights (its in us all a little), I would want a way to say,
    "Well look at the Book of Blessings...I do have a xyz "puffs chest" kill ratio. Joy "

    BUT, how would something like that be implemented and avoid the problems Seignar mentioned without fully submitting to Soris's idea???... :suspect:

    ***edit***

    I owe soris 1 point. <---this is to remind me.
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by WandererReece on Fri May 10, 2013 10:10 pm

    Animaaal wrote:Also, we have rep here...should we get rid of that?

    Yes, I can easily find at least a dozen examples to prove it too.

    We shouldn't have any leaderboards or voting in this game, and both games proved it.

    Demon's Souls had a rating system that was totally abused. Random players, including good ones, got Ds, and friends got Ss. I wonder why it's not in Dark Souls?

    Dark Souls had the Book of the Guilty, and it became the Book of Hackers. It also gave invaders the motivation to be bigger jerks then the biggest jerk.

    Dark Souls 2 needs to just stay away from these. In my honest opinion the closest thing it can afford is a success percentage.

    This will be displayed when the player's sign is touched. If the player defeats a boss or another player, then it's a success. If the player dies, then it's a fail. If the player leaves, then it's a fail. If the player is kicked out, then the ratio is unaffected. The totals are hidden. Only the success percentage is shown to other players. However, even this system can be abused, so people will obviously abuse it.


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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by GenericUsername on Sat May 11, 2013 3:05 am

    I actually quite liked the demon's souls way as well. However I can see how it can be abused with people just throwing out the worst ratings they can, because people are ****.
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    Re: Leaderboards/Statistics That Work (title changed)

    Post by WandererReece on Sat May 11, 2013 11:36 am



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