Dragons in RPGs

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    Dragons in RPGs

    Post by DaFarmerProject on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:38 am

    Is anyone else getting tired of the "Dragon" theme in recent RPGs? It's starting to get obnoxious in my opinion. Reason this is posted here is because I was watching the DkSII trailer, and it urked me a little when I saw a lot of dragon things toward the end.

    I am sick of dragons.
    They are so overused... Need a more original theme.
    Anyone know if that's a main theme in DkSII? Opinions? Maybe it's just me.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by RANT on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:47 am

    dragons are awesome dude, maybe it's because I only play games that I know I will love(like ni no kuni and dark souls) those are the only games I've played so far that have dragons in them. but really how can you get sick of dragons? maybe go play something else other than an rpg.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:50 am

    Go play Soul Sacrifice. After a little bit you'll be sick of Cerberus.

    But to be serious, they're just part of the endless idea cycle. Dragons used to be huge. Then Vampires. Wolves. Vampires. Zombies. Now Dragons again.

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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Azul on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:03 am

    Dragons are a recent thing? Last I checked back in the early nineties and even earlier, RPG's had a big thing for dragons.

    Nothing is really 'overdone'. It's that things are usually done poorly. Dark Souls accomplished in making dragons acceptable within the story and gameplay-wise, and Dark Souls 2 looks to be taking that and making it large scale. Be it dragons, zombies, vampires, anything, it's not a matter of them being overused, it's a matter of them usually being done in a poor way. We have countless zombie themed games.

    But how many are legit good zombie games? Same here, only with dragons. And in my opinion, Dark Souls handles dragons perfectly well so far, we'll see how it goes in Dark Souls 2 before calling it out for being cheap and generic.
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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by DE5PA1R on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:33 am

    Azul has it right.

    Dragons are a symptom of the faux epic style plaguing modern games. They're a trope employed to yell at the player "Look! You're awesome! We promise!" to try and distract the fact that the player is just mashing attack and drinking potions until it dies.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Shkar on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:33 pm

    Even Dark Souls could make rhe dragons better IMO. They need more diversity in their attacks; in many fantasy worlds, dragons are highly intelligent, but they typically seem liks animals.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:37 pm

    Seath is pretty smart. He's just a wimp.....


    Tougher than Skyrim dragons though.

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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Halicarnassis on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:41 pm

    What about Bunny-rabbits? We should campaign for a revival of the Monty Python killer bunny. Lets see you take this beast on then!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Jim Jam 94 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:01 pm

    Wow! Thankgod I'm not the only one who is bored of the theme of Dragons. When I heard about skyrim and saw gameplay I wasn't impressed because I thought the dragons made it seem absurdly generic. It took me a year before I bought Skyrim and when I played it I did really enjoy it, however I hated the whole dragons coming back to life, the end of the world revolved around an almighty dragon (That I two hit killed on hard difficulty, my weapon wasn't even fully maxed) The boss fight was lame, underwhelming, didn't live up to the hype that the story portrayed, he supposedly did many bad things, wtf did he do? He destroyed Heglen which helped you escape! That was this "Almighty" dragons mistake, he helped the person that would 2 hit kill him! Boring. The random dragon fights were just an annoyance, tedious and some were clearly scripted in certain areas, I was afraid they would become an annoyance, they did just that. Enough about Skyrim and sorry for the rant, but skyrim (although a game I enjoyed despite being piss easy on Master difficulty) I am even more opposed to a game revolving around Dragons, I am damn well looking forward to Dark Souls 2, I havent even completed the Dark souls yet and I'm looking forward to the second! I haven't been this hyped for a game Since the Original Bioshock and Halo 3 Ps, sorry for the lack of paragraphs, im on my phone!
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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by KazooieBanjo on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:12 pm

    Dragons are a big part of Dark Souls. The prologue is all about the dragons in the Age of the Ancients.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:27 pm

    I'll point out again my love of the Dragon God from Demon's Souls. Kalameet is pretty well done too. He's big, he has a variety of attacks, he has waaaaay more life than what seems reasonable and a single mistake or flaw in your preparation can lead to your death.

    Dragon God is done better though in my opinion.....
    Essentially, in Demon's they're admitting you can't take this guy on. You can't just take a sword and beat him. The only reason you have a chance at victory is because;
    A. He's confined in an area that doesn't allow him to actually come at you bro!
    B. He's in an ideal situation to fight, that includes mechanisms to injure him and contain him, built with only that in mind.

    Essentially it's like a mortal going up to the Fenris Wolf. It's good to be lunch. Put gleipnir on him though and now you're talking.

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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by DE5PA1R on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:45 pm

    I think that's the first support of Dragon God I've ever seen. That was such a terrible fight.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:02 pm

    It's not a fight at all. Which is what I love about it. It's basically From telling you, you can't win. There are entities which are beyond you, no matter what. Rather than hinting at that idea, like telling you how great Gwyn used to be, in Demon's Souls they show it to you. Hey lookie here, see this guy? Yeah, you're gonna need some help....


    I think the biggest complaints about this boss stem from the lack of adrenaline but to me, the first time had plenty of adrenaline. Here I am, exploring and BAM! Dead. What...the...****...was...that!?! Next time I come in, I'm like....where do I hide? Where do I hide? I find a hiding spot and then see.....uhhhh....can't go anywhere. Crap. Then HE breaks the barrier for me. I start trying to egg him into doing that. Turns out it's likely to get you killed. Then I learn, hey...I can break these too. It's like you're a sneaky mouse just trying to somehow do the impossible. No other fight in that game or any has made me feel quite like that.

    It's not as fun the second or tenth time but which fights are? Old Hero? He wasn't a challenge the first time. He telegraphs the rage so much it's crazy. Vanguard? Moving=victory. Any boss in the Valley? Please....jokey jokersons.

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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Halicarnassis on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:59 pm

    @jimjam: aaaah maaaannnn! I haven't even seen or played Skyrim yet. And to think you have just ruined the ending for me. Guess I won't be buying that next. Dude sad

    Lol


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:22 pm

    The main story is always the worst reason to play Elder Scrolls games so you're good

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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Emergence on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:29 pm

    Dragons are the most powerful archetype for individuation and integration there is. Since RPG's are so frequently about inner growth and empowerment, Dragons and other dragon like beasts will always be a constant thematic element.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Marionx on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:14 pm

    Maybe there should be more different types of dragons besides the ones we have.

    How about a dragon version of a dog? Or arctic dragons with fur on their scales? Sort of like what Priscilla was. Or maybe a butterfly with dragon like qualities in it? Not like Seath, but an actual butterfly.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by DaFarmerProject on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:25 pm

    Okay.. so it's me. I got put on blast by everyone silly. But really, I think it's when I think of dragons I think of Skyrim. I'm sick of Skyrim.

    But I just feel like dragons are generic. They've been done in so many RPGs that they're just overused. You can MAKE them cool, if you stop making them like another enemy or animal. Maybe try something more unique with them. I don't know what.. But hey, I'm no game developer.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Marionx on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:33 pm

    I've played Skyrim and sometimes I found that the dragons were rather an annoyance than a threat. They had cool designs, but still... They can't compare to Kalameet.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by DaFarmerProject on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:37 pm

    Marionx wrote:I've played Skyrim and sometimes I found that the dragons were rather an annoyance than a threat. They had cool designs, but still... They can't compare to Kalameet.


    Church. They're just one of those.. "D*mmit.. come on." things. You just don't wanna waste your time on them. So that's why I just don't like dragons.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:11 pm

    Yeah I'm pretty sick of Dragons too. Just as I was sad when I saw the Manticore to see it wasn't the cooler more ancient version, the one where it's head is an old man and yet it still eats the flesh of people and can talk. I would have loved a talking old man face on a manticore talking to you then eating your corpse when it wins.

    Or I'd love to see a Rat King.

    Basically I'd love to see more old school mythology that aren't as over-used.
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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by DE5PA1R on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:11 pm

    Emergence wrote:Dragons are the most powerful archetype for individuation and integration there is. Since RPG's are so frequently about inner growth and empowerment, Dragons and other dragon like beasts will always be a constant thematic element.

    lolwut. I think you mean "cliche," not archetype.

    Clever segue

    If we're waxing philosophical I recommend we separate animal-intelligence dragons and smart dragons. They serve very different purposes, though both are played out and/or let down by the disappointing junk that passes for video games these days.


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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by GenericUsername on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:10 am

    I wont mind dragons in Dark souls 2 so long as they get rid of that bull bridge dragon fight. I know they already have a giant bridge with dragons but good god if I actually have to fight one...

    I'm sick of getting one shot by those damn things.
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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by R3dlace on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:46 am

    Battlefield 4 is going to have a dragon as a last boss.

    Yes, Dragons are part of the lore in Dark Souls. A big chunk of it actually, yet they are not what we portray first when thinking of Dark Souls. Why? Because the world of Dark Souls is really not about a specific thing. Sure, they play a big role but are they the only theme around? No, there are also Gods, Undead ; actually, the whole curse of the undead is unrelated (as far as we know) to the dragons and the gods who fought a war that created the world Dark Souls is set into.

    Sorry if I write like crap, it's late and I haven't practiced written English in years.

    My point is, even though the theme is set on Dragons and Drakes (Wyrms, wtv), I do believe the underlying lore will be emphasized on a lot. It is what makes a Souls game truly Souls-like.

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    Re: Dragons in RPGs

    Post by Aevun on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:47 am

    Dark Souls > Skyrim. Even when Skyrim's biggest selling point is concerned.

    Skyrim had a pretty damn long hype train. As I said, dragons were it's biggest selling point besides just being a TES game. Biggest disappointment of 2011. They felt like bigger draugirs with a bit more health and a bigger hitbox. Horrible implementation. HORRIBLE. Add on top of that Skyrim's "press button to win" gameplay, and you got yourself an overhyped piece of s***

    Now let's talk about the dragons and drakes in DkS. They weren't talked about pre-release except in the prologue. I was pleasantly surprised by the big (and pretty original) role they had in the lore and story. Then one of the most worthwhile DLC's in quite some time was released, and it contained Kalameet. Best dragon fight in gaming. Nuff said.

    I am quite confident that the devs will implement dragons correctly. Intimidating, ferocious beasts with an actual history.


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