BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by vatar5 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:41 am

    crbngville2 wrote:Backstabs are a part of the souls series. A mechanic that doesn't need to be removed or changed. With the exception of decreasing the hitbox back to the same size as it was in Demon's Souls. That, and the fact that DkS2 is going back to dedicated servers will get rid of the worst of the lag associated with the backstab in this current iteration. Thank goodness, no more P2P.

    This.
    Seriously,listen to the voice of reason.
    Backstab is an essential element of the Souls series,without it,the realism drops to minus.
    From my point of view,people complains about BS only because of the large window.
    You decrease the window and voila!
    I've myself never been backstab'd by a player in Demons Soul.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by ResIsBestStat on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:42 am

    Backstabs are easy to counter, you simply don't pay attentions to your surrounding enough...
    for example to counter a bs fisher you can feint a miss and the attack him behind to break his *** poise

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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:54 am

    crbngville2 wrote:Backstabs are a part of the souls series. A mechanic that doesn't need to be removed or changed. With the exception of decreasing the hitbox back to the same size as it was in Demon's Souls. That, and the fact that DkS2 is going back to dedicated servers will get rid of the worst of the lag associated with the backstab in this current iteration. Thank goodness, no more P2P.

    This is a huge misconception. The backstab hitbox in Demon's Souls was larger than it is in Dark Souls. It was that way when the game came out.

    Also, the hitbox has been reduced. Read patch notes.

    Lastly, the only problem with backstabs is the "lagstab" or "telestab".

    It existed in Demon's Souls, with dedicated servers, it will exist in Dark Souls 2 as well...unless...

    They make it so that when you press block you get a 1/2 second immunity to backstabs, and/or the make a "counter-backstab" animation/ move.

    Another idea is to turn the backstab into a "slicing throat" animation that does minimal damage, but slows bleeds you out, kinda like poison/toxic. Also, if you "backstab" again, you won't do any damage or increase the bleed out,it will only disrupt the flow of combat in your favor for wake-ups and buffings.


    Last edited by Animaaal on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammer)
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by vatar5 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:20 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    crbngville2 wrote:Backstabs are a part of the souls series. A mechanic that doesn't need to be removed or changed. With the exception of decreasing the hitbox back to the same size as it was in Demon's Souls. That, and the fact that DkS2 is going back to dedicated servers will get rid of the worst of the lag associated with the backstab in this current iteration. Thank goodness, no more P2P.

    This is a huge misconception. The backstab hitbox in Demon's Souls was larger than it is in Dark Souls. It was that way when the game came out.

    Also, the hitbox has been reduced. Read patch notes.


    Please,where is the misconception if the current window is smaller in Demons Soul than in Dark Souls?


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:31 pm

    It'll take me few minutes, but I'll prvide some proof here in a sec...

    I'm assuming you meant, "please show me" and not, "Ooooooooooh please"

    I'll be back.

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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:41 pm

    Dark Souls Without Backstabs - Page 13

    I'm not going to regurgitate the entire conversation, and it begins before page 13 and post #181.

    Also, I can't remeber which patch, but the notes clearly state the hitbox was reduced, or at the very least modified. I assume you can look that up yourself.

    For anyone who played Demon's Souls in it's prime, we remember the "sidestabs", lag from "mists/clouds" and other things that were related to lag.

    If you're truely curious, you could also go to some of the old Demon's Souls forums when Dark Souls came out. The general concensus of the hitbox in Dark Souls, was that it was shrunk, and lag creating "telestabs" with the addition of being able to poise stab made it seem larger than it was.

    Watch the video in post #181, the quality suks, but the results are plain to see.

    Dedicated servers will not fix the problem. Will they help it? Yes but almost to an unoticable degree.

    Atlus is a grade A company and I believe they maintained their servers and operated them with more than one IT guy living in the basement, but yet the problem still existed.

    Dedicated servers will allow for people to summon with less fails, I doubt it'll do much else, I hope I'm wrong, but history speaks for itself.

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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by vatar5 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:00 pm

    Oh I understand.

    You meant that BS's window was reduced for Dark Souls.
    I took it as it was for Demons Soul.

    Well then,I guess it is weird that I perceive that in Demons Soul the BS window is smaller than in Dark Souls when it's actually the other way.
    It even gets stranger since I've never been backstab'd successfully in DeS...
    And trust me,90% of the people I fought circled around me behind a shield to stab my posterior...


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:18 pm

    vatar5 wrote:Oh I understand.

    You meant that BS's window was reduced for Dark Souls.
    I took it as it was for Demons Soul.

    Well then,I guess it is weird that I perceive that in Demons Soul the BS window is smaller than in Dark Souls when it's actually the other way.
    It even gets stranger since I've never been backstab'd successfully in DeS...
    And trust me,90% of the people I fought circled around me behind a shield to stab my posterior...

    There is so much validity to what you said, it would take me hours to elaborate.

    Basically its the hitbox "tail" that follows us around because of p2p. It existed in Demon's Souls, but its like comparing the tail of a groomed doberman pincher, to a tiger.

    Thats why its actualized the way it is in game.

    Also, I want to make it clear that my opinion is based off experience and not preference. I really hope the servers somehow fix things, and if it was Atlus running the show...I'd be more optimistic...but its Bamco.

    Imho, FROM has already designed an excellent fix that we are unaware of. They do listen to us....somewhat. I just don't think this was an issue that went overlooked in the production of DkS2. I can't wait to see what they did, I just hope backstabs weren't removed.
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by carlucio on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:33 pm

    Back stab is the worst thing in Dark souls, i hope they are removing it.
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:56 pm

    I think a BS should only be done if the enemy player is standing still.
    If they are moving at all then the BS shouldn't take. Just a thought.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:15 am

    Oh_the_Humanity wrote:I think a BS should only be done if the enemy player is standing still.
    If they are moving at all then the BS shouldn't take. Just a thought.

    You mean like in healing, buffing, mossi.....oh God, are we really gonna start this up again? lmao.

    2 part move...all I gotta say...I'm a fan big grin
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:27 am

    Animaaal wrote:
    Oh_the_Humanity wrote:I think a BS should only be done if the enemy player is standing still.
    If they are moving at all then the BS shouldn't take. Just a thought.

    You mean like in healing, buffing, mossi.....oh God, are we really gonna start this up again? lmao.

    2 part move...all I gotta say...I'm a fan big grin

    Actually healing can be done while moving in DkS2.
    Which implies that buffs and moss may be done while moving also.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:40 am

    Oh_the_Humanity wrote:
    Actually healing can be done while moving in DkS2.
    Which implies that buffs and moss may be done while moving also.

    Wow really? Sweet. I knew you could shoot bows while moving now, but not healing...cool.
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:50 am

    Animaaal wrote:
    Oh_the_Humanity wrote:
    Actually healing can be done while moving in DkS2.
    Which implies that buffs and moss may be done while moving also.

    Wow really? Sweet. I knew you could shoot bows while moving now, but not healing...cool.

    Yeah in the 12 min demo, they show the hero using the drop stone of healing while moving. Whether or not that works with estus or moss idk, but it's definitely looking that way.

    Back to the topic. I really cant wait to see what From has done with BS's this time around. I highly doubt that they just left it alone due to all the talk surrounding it.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:57 am

    Thats right he did din't he? Thanks man I forgot all about that. That could open up a lot of different tactics.

    Also, I hope you're right.
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Myztyrio on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:10 am

    I believe that with dedicated servers and largely reduced hitboxes, backstabs will not be a problem. Some builds will still be focused on simply critical hits, and I am fine with this, as there are weapons that are meant just for these purposes, and this is appropriate as long as it is used in a fair manner(I will likely be making such builds, as I have always been the thief kind of guy). If it is made to function more like DeS, or possibly even a bit stricter, DkS2 shall be quite perfect.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:14 am

    I would like it if certain classes of weapons can't backstab at all, or have there own version of a quicktime critical that suits that weapon.
    Great Scythe comes to mind.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:15 am

    Oh_the_Humanity wrote:I would like it if certain classes of weapons can't backstab at all, or have there own version of a quicktime critical that suits that weapon.
    Great Scythe comes to mind.
    Great Club.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:17 am

    I would like it if pushing the block button gave you a 1/2 second backstab immunity.
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Oh_the_Humanity on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:19 am

    Animaaal wrote:I would like it if pushing the block button gave you a 1/2 second backstab immunity.

    Or maybe if you hit the block button at the right moment, like a riposte, your character does a spin around move or something like that. Just a thought, it may not be the best idea, but that what came to mind.
    Dont take anything I say about BS to seriously.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:26 am

    All I want is for backstabs to cancel if you roll right before them. It's not that *** hard to do.


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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:27 am

    It would be a fix for telestabs is all. It wouldn't fix the window.

    Also, I would love to see a turtler think their immune to backstabs by rapidfire blocking. I'd kick them repeatedly, then backstab them.
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    Re: BACKSTABBINGG!!!!!!!

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:30 am

    R3dlace wrote:Are we talking about Backstabs here or Lagstabs? Remember that DS2's online play will be dedicated, so no more huge lag spikes or, in this case, lagstabs. Most of the time, that is.

    Most of the "issues" I've seen so far are lag related issues. I'm not even going to start that though. There are plenty of threads talking about that.

    If you think that backstabs are the be all end all of pvp I suggest you go watch Phantom EWGF's videos on youtube. He has an entire series dedicated to backstabbing and counter backstabbing as well as NOT getting backstabbed. Its really some easy stuff.

    I use backstabs a lot. I can tell you that like 60% of my successful backstabs are due to the other player trying to cast, spamming r1 with a slow weapon or attempting to parry spam me. A good 10% are due to my actual skill in a combat situation and the other 30% are due to a successful ambush. The rest of my attempts are quickly foiled by experienced players who see backstabs coming from a mile away.

    Dark souls is about overcoming problems. Not complaining about them.


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