Kaathe/Darkwraiths/The Abyss--Hold On, What?

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    ExplodingPenguin
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    Re: Kaathe/Darkwraiths/The Abyss--Hold On, What?

    Post by ExplodingPenguin on Thu May 02, 2013 1:33 am

    Shkar wrote:
    ExplodingPenguin wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    ExplodingPenguin wrote:
    Oh man, I remember that show. But that's just a design; a two headed serpent is fairly common in our world, much less Lordran. Other shields have fancy designs, but they offer no lore insight in most cases, they are simply artfully designed.
    I don't mind debating; Dark Souls has a lot of debatable aspects.
    But as you said, Undead are occuring regardless of the Age remaining the Age of Fire. Time to move onto the next age to see if we can sort things out then, as it is we are just delaying the problem.
    I never stated Kaathe tricked Dusk into waking up Manus; in my opinion it wasn't him, just another serpent. They seem to be a fairly cunning and capricious bunch. And no, I'm not sparing the blame from the serpent, but Dusk is ultimately the one who woke up Manus, not the serpent so it's mostly her fault.
    Still, the Kings accepted. If they were any kind of competent leader and so trusted by Gwyn, they wouldn't have been easily seduce by Kaathe. I'm not saying he's utterly blameless in this scenario, but in the end the Kings accepted of their own free will.
    There are other Undead who remain sane and coherent. I would assume the Kings, being as they are, would be able to fight it off. But then, we don't even know if they are humans or are like Ciaran or Ornstein.

    I'm sorry, but your claim that the majority of the blame rests on Dusk just doesn't hold water. First off, the idea of it just doesn't hold up. By the way you present your logic, at least, I can only assume that if someone were to hire an assassin, it is the assassin who would get the punishment. The serpent has just as much, if not more, blame than the people of Oolacile.

    Which may not be all that much. Yes, it is made abundantly clear that the whoever awoke Manus had some indication that they shouldn't have, but we don't really know how they were tricked. Remember, this wasn't "walk into a cave and wake a guy up;" They opened his tomb, in essence "grave-robbing" Manus. For all we know, the serpent told them that Manu's pendant would give them the power to overthrow the gods. It certainly seems to be the Serpents standard method of converting followers. And we don't even know for a fact that Dusk was the one to do the act; the monster kidnapping the princess is too big of a trope for the possibility to be ruled out.

    ...well yeah, since the assassins is the one who actually killed the person. And I do not think the person who hired the assassin is blameless. I don't know how you got that from my comments since I stated the serpent isn't blameless yet he ultimately wasn't the one to wake Manus.
    But the serpent didn't actually free Manus; Dusk was stupid enough to do so, and her stupidity resulted in Oolacile dying. It's mainly her fault. Yes, the serpent tempted her, but she could have easily told him to screw off or not go crawling around in Manus's tomb, pissing him off. He certainly wasn't happy when he found out his amulet was gone.

    He was buried in a tomb. That's a pretty big indication to leave him alone. You would figure in Lordran people would understand that grave-robbing is a deadly pasttime. Dead people don't like being woken up.

    Dusk is the Princess of Oolacile- she holds the power and no doubt gave permission to upend Manus's tomb or the serpent approached her directly since she could make it happen; after all, even is some renegades tried doing it on the sly, digging up under the city is far from subtle.

    I agree that the people likely were aware that graverobbing isn't right, or in this case, smart. However, there is no indication of the undead at that time, so it's not even as if that would be an indication. Besides, phrase something right and you can get someone to do just about anything. That fact even applies to real life; confessions gained from police interrogations aren't automatic case enders. Why? There's a specific manner of going about an interview that can get a confession something around 80-90% of the time, even if the person didn't commit the crime.

    As for the digging, the cave seems (mostly) natural to me. We really have no clue what the actual exchange between the Oolaciains and the Serpent was, nor do we know what came between that and us showing up. And too be honest, I think From intended that.
    Um, Lordran is a lot different from real life so I don't think that applies. We don't know how Oolacile (adfjkj stupid name) law enforcement worked before they turned crazy. Or who or when the serpent tricked them and why Manus was so upset when he found out someone stole his amulet (or why that theiving snake Seath had it)
    True...seems we are just using our own headcanons and assumptions now lol Ahaha no matter, I think I'll stop now since we are mostly going in circles.

    They certainly seem to love vague...it's one of the reasons I love Dark Souls so much lol. But apparently they are getting rid of that in Dark Souls 2 :I For better of worse...


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    Re: Kaathe/Darkwraiths/The Abyss--Hold On, What?

    Post by prophetteonit on Thu May 02, 2013 5:13 am

    ExplodingPenguin wrote:
    They certainly seem to love vague...it's one of the reasons I love Dark Souls so much lol. But apparently they are getting rid of that in Dark Souls 2 :I For better of worse...

    I dunno. I heard that the only thing we know about the character you play is that s/he's been cursed and is searching for a cure. That's the kind of ambiguity we've come to know and love!


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    Re: Kaathe/Darkwraiths/The Abyss--Hold On, What?

    Post by ExplodingPenguin on Thu May 02, 2013 5:25 am

    prophetteonit wrote:
    ExplodingPenguin wrote:
    They certainly seem to love vague...it's one of the reasons I love Dark Souls so much lol. But apparently they are getting rid of that in Dark Souls 2 :I For better of worse...

    I dunno. I heard that the only thing we know about the character you play is that s/he's been cursed and is searching for a cure. That's the kind of ambiguity we've come to know and love!

    I think they meant in terms of overall story- like all the other characters, situations and how they occured. I mean, we all have different variations of one story-Like with the destruction of Oolacile since it's vague with the information. Apparently it will be more clean and clear in the sequel. Kinda happy and....apprehensive at the same time.

    But I've seen some of the leaked footage and damn I'm impressed.


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    Re: Kaathe/Darkwraiths/The Abyss--Hold On, What?

    Post by prophetteonit on Thu May 02, 2013 5:54 am

    ExplodingPenguin wrote:
    prophetteonit wrote:
    ExplodingPenguin wrote:
    They certainly seem to love vague...it's one of the reasons I love Dark Souls so much lol. But apparently they are getting rid of that in Dark Souls 2 :I For better of worse...

    I dunno. I heard that the only thing we know about the character you play is that s/he's been cursed and is searching for a cure. That's the kind of ambiguity we've come to know and love!

    I think they meant in terms of overall story- like all the other characters, situations and how they occured. I mean, we all have different variations of one story-Like with the destruction of Oolacile since it's vague with the information. Apparently it will be more clean and clear in the sequel. Kinda happy and....apprehensive at the same time.

    But I've seen some of the leaked footage and damn I'm impressed.

    Yeah, we'll have to wait and see, I guess. I'm cautiously optimistic!

    I'm especially impressed with the dual-wield special attacks. I always wanted dual-wielding to be a viable option in Dark Souls but it just wasn't working for me. Looks like you can attack with both weapons at the same time now, so that's cool.

    Hopefully they'll keep the lore somewhat intact though--it's not like it was the lore that was hurting the fanbase, it was the difficulty and the ambiguity. We'll just have to wait though!


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