Darkmoons are out.

We know this. Would anyone else be pissed if they had to host or be the bad guy to pvp? (main question)

My reasoning: Hosting is higher risk and higher cost than invading, and constant invasions can make recharging spells impossible, thus I shy away from it as my primary means of pvp.

And I don't like being the "bad" guy.

Bad being in quotes because of the subjective nature of the term.

The darkwraiths (as a cov) murder indescriminately, and this is not how I operate. I don't have the malicious streak in me, but I really don't want to put up with humanity farming/being trapped in a stream of invaders so I cant recharge to pvp.

remember now, the dark-moons are not good either. They just work toward Gwyndolin's agenda.

*Irritated sarcasm* Yeah. Way to pay attention.

I qualified why I don't dark wraith. As a darkmoon, most of my invasion are against darkwraiths, grave lords or forest hunters. All pvp covs, for 1, for 2 fighting me is entirely avoidable, without disabling co-op by staying hollow. I'll let you go about your business so long as you haven't been indicted (other sin can be absolved) as it generally signifys some level of intentional pvp experience.

I would probably stick to hosting as I don't mind it as much. It is risky being host, indeed, but it adds to the tension of the game.

What's the risk in hosting? You just suicide after your win when you want to restock.

and risk something, anything (stupid mistakes being a big one, depending on where you're hosting the potential for something stupid to kill you varies, like BP mushroom parent Ohko's), killing you before you get that humanity back.

Forum Pirate wrote:and risk something, anything (stupid mistakes being a big one, depending on where you're hosting the potential for something stupid to kill you varies, like BP mushroom parent Ohko's), killing you before you get that humanity back.

You have several options: suicide somewhere safe, use a homeward bone, quit and reload to break incoming invasions (need to quickly homeward out though), or just walk back to the bonfire. If you feel like it's risky going back to get your bloodstain, wear a Ring of Sacrifice.

and farm the rings? Its still more risky than invading, especially as a dm/fh, never mind the humanity farming to make up for losses.

Thats not really my point though.

Forum Pirate wrote:and farm the rings? Its still more risky than invading, especially as a dm/fh, never mind the humanity farming to make up for losses.

You'd have to die twice in a row (you can always retrieve souls as a hollow). Dying as an invader leaves your bloodstain behind as well so you're in the same boat.

I prefer Darkmoons as well.
At least I know I'm invading someone who is interested in PvP and I won't just interrupt someone's questing, or invade someone who's not interested in PvP and perhaps is only looking for help.

Darkmoon is the only way I invade so I'll be pretty annoyed if its gone.

Solid Knight wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:and farm the rings? Its still more risky than invading, especially as a dm/fh, never mind the humanity farming to make up for losses.

You'd have to die twice in a row (you can always retrieve souls as a hollow). Dying as an invader leaves your bloodstain behind as well so you're in the same boat.

only with the red ord, and even then there is no chance that mobs got involved killed you the first time. Ganker reds/blues exist as well, so there is always that possibly as a host. Invaders (of any kind) also don't have to re-go human every time they lose.


Darkmoons are gone. They handed punishing sinners to NPCs

Darknoons are gone?

How do you know this?

Seeing as how the main question is "Would anyone else be pissed if they had to host or be the bad guy to pvp?", there's always the Red Sign Soapstone. Unless they cut that out too, but that'd be silly.

As for the invasion PvP, I honestly don't think Darkmoon can be considered that 'good'. After all, you can easily be invading lower SL people who killed Lautrec prematurely. Darkwraiths can invade the 'innocents', but not lower SLs. Instead they may end up fighting 3vs1 gank squads that also have the advantage of a couple hundred SLs.

^again, way to pay attention. I didn't say DM's were the good guys, I said DWs are the bad guys, and then qualified what I ment by bad. I ment merciless, indescriminant, preying on people who've done nothing, because they might, eventually kindle the flame. Even in your example, such sin can be absolved, freeing the player from their mistake.

I'm not here to discuss "morality," I merely mentioned it so the reader understands my reasoning. If anyone is intent on arguing "morality," please do it elsewhere.

The RSS just gets me ganked.

It was in an Offical Xbox Magazine article a while back. Its mentioned in the sticky.

For the record, I check. You know how often I invade a character I can't find in the book of the guilty? Less than 1 in 100. Know how often I invade someone more than 10%+10 sl's (the wraith lower limit) below me? Maybe 1/10. 1/7 on a bad day, and even then (on my sl 100's) they're usually sl 78 or something stupid like that. Not to mention that most builds simply stop gaining additional damage/hp/defense at sl 80-100, they simply gain versatility, so a sl 100 wraith invading a sl 200 isn't nearly the handicap the SL difference would suggest.

Forum Pirate wrote:For the record, I check. You know how often I invade a character I can't find in the book of the guilty? Less than 1 in 100. Know how often I invade someone more than 10%+10 sl's (the wraith lower limit) below me? Maybe 1/10. 1/7 on a bad day, and even then (on my sl 100's) they're usually sl 78 or something stupid like that. Not to mention that most builds simply stop gaining additional damage/hp/defense at sl 80-100, they simply gain versatility, so a sl 100 wraith invading a sl 200 isn't nearly the handicap the SL difference would suggest.

Actually a DW can only invade down 10%, not 10%+10. 10%+10 is for the RSS.

I know for one thing that I was once helping out a SL1, and he got invaded by a DM WotG spammer. All the SL1 did was kill a single NPC. He hadn't killed Gargoyles yet (because that's actually what I was helping with), so he couldn't absolve.

If you want to kill the real scum of the earth, you need to be a DW or RSS user, because ganking isn't considered a sin.
If you want a fair duel against someone who is interested in PvP, maybe they'll reintroduce the Dragon Covenant.

But yeah, a covenant specifically designed for killing people who have killed NPCs or invaded players seems to be out, that'll be handled by PvE now.

Its not as if he can choose to invade a sl 1, unless he's griefing and is sl1 himself. It doesn't even work very well as a dm, newbies with sin arn't terribly common now that the old bb (it carried sin) is gone. It happens on occasion, but its rare, and he can't know it until after he kills them.

I don't think ganking is bad. They're entitled to play as they like, and I fight plenty in dark londo. I really enjoy fighting them in fact, I just don't want it to be every fight (which it is with the rss in my experience)

When did I say that I thought wraiths were the scum of the earth? Just that I don't have the mean/callous streak for it. The meanest I get is grave lording, because only people in NG+ get bps that way, meaning they are experienced, and they can ignore me if they so choose, or just wait a few because the stream of wraiths Gl's get will bring me down eventually.)

I'm ruthless in combat, but I'd prefer to invade people who know what they're doing, and DM's get me more of that (in randoms)

Forum Pirate wrote:Its not as if he can choose to invade a sl 1, unless he's griefing and is sl1 himself. It doesn't even work very well as a dm, newbies with sin arn't terribly common now that the old bb (it carried sin) is gone. It happens on occasion, but its rare, and he can't know it until after he kills them.

I don't think ganking is bad. They're entitled to play as they like, and I fight plenty in dark londo. I really enjoy fighting them in fact, I just don't want it to be every fight (which it is with the rss in my experience)

When did I say that I thought wraiths were the scum of the earth? Just that I don't have the mean/callous streak for it. The meanest I get is grave lording, because only people in NG+ get bps that way, meaning they are experienced, and they can ignore me if they so choose, or just wait a few because the stream of wraiths Gl's get will bring me down eventually.)

I'm ruthless in combat, but I'd prefer to invade people who know what they're doing, and DM's get me more of that (in randoms)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you said DWs were the scum of the earth. I was just saying, you seem to like invading people who have done something wrong (and I definitely consider being mean as wrong), and ganking is in my eyes the worst of the worst.

I'd like to state again, Dragon Covenant It is by far the safest way of getting a fair duel with someone who knows what they're doing.

Also, you can invade as a DW and just leave with the Black Separation Crystal if they're not a desirable target. With the significantly increased frequency of successful invasions you're probably gonna get more desirable fights than as a DM too.

How an I to know wether or not they're a desirable target? Looks? I lost to a naked guy with a club 2 days back, looks mean little.

I can only BC if I get the space, which few hosts allow.

Nobody summons dragons. The various dragon glitches killed that a long time ago.

From a lore perspective, yes I prefer to be what I see as the good guy. The morality in DKS is grey, but the dark wraiths are psychotic mass murderers, even if they're actually doing the right thing.

What I mean though, is that I want to fight people generally prepared to defend themselves. Dms invade sinners, primarily dws, so even invading random questers in new londo, I'm going to fight pvpers almost exclusively, with less (very little actually) of getting pve people/ co-opers who have no idea how to pvp, who dws are going to invade more often.

Forum Pirate wrote:How an I to know wether or not they're a desirable target? Looks? I lost to a naked guy with a club 2 days back, looks mean little.

I can only BC if I get the space, which few hosts allow.

Nobody summons dragons. The various dragon glitches killed that a long time ago.

From a lore perspective, yes I prefer to be what I see as the good guy. The morality in DKS is grey, but the dark wraiths are psychotic mass murderers, even if they're actually doing the right thing.

What I mean though, is that I want to fight people generally prepared to defend themselves. Dms invade sinners, primarily dws, so even invading random questers in new londo, I'm going to fight pvpers almost exclusively, with less (very little actually) of getting pve people/ co-opers who have no idea how to pvp, who dws are going to invade more often.

A good way to see if they're a desirable target is their location. If they are standing in a known PvP area or by a bonfire, there's a big chance they're looking for PvP. If they're somewhere in the middle of an area killing mobs, they're probably the questers you're trying to avoid, and you can see them doing this from quite far away, making it easy to crystal out.

I've invaded as DW often enough. Usually 50% of my victims are people looking for a 1vs1 fight, 30% are gankers, 10% are questers with phantoms and 10% questers without phantoms. And every now and then I get some idiot that went afk while human. I punish that by stealing their humanity with Dark Hand (even if I'm at 99 already).

I'm fine hunting questers. so long as they have a decent amount of pvp experience. Most of the questers I invade are DW's in NG+ and have experience, which is why I'm dming. Given the option I'd disable the sin from anything other than indictments.

Okay, but when you think about it, the most morally correct are the forest hunters. They are just defending their land. The other covenants are attacking people who either a) did something they did not like or b) have something they want.

No offence but most Darkmoons are A-holes.I'm not talking about a lore perspective,I'm talking in practice.I'm not sure if they take the lore too seriously or if they assume I'm evil for having sin.I just find that Darkmoons are very cheap,much more so than Darkwraiths,even to the point of using glitches and hacks to win.I am usually a forest hunter,my indictments come from killing gankers who farm people for souls,if that isn't morally wrong,I don't know what is.I for one won't be sad to see the covenant go.