Finally...?

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    alchemydesign
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    Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:05 am

    So, I've been watching and watching the gameplay video that IGN released and there's one thing that I noticed that has me super super excited (other than the fact that its looking to be a beautiful game and its DkS2). Throughout the whole video, never once do we see one shield-parry. The only thing close to a parry we see is where he tries to bat back the axes that the troll thing throws. I hope, sincerely, that they are making parries completely dependent on the weapon. I've always disliked shield-parries as that's not really how parries work.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Juutas on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:04 am

    Actually parries with shields are somewhat realistic ( of course it's not realistic to parry HUGE greatsword with a shield, but neither is swinging one ).
    Distinct weapon parrys would be a cool concept though, but it would have to be well balanced.

    There are lot of things the character doesn't do in the tech demo (running, jump attacks, backstab, plunging attacks...) but it's highly likely all of these things will still be there including parrys.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by MistahrFox on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:09 am

    Well the character does seem to die from a "Backstab" (more like back-breaker) From one of the turtle enemies.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:37 am

    well i know there are a lot of things not done, but parrying is rather an integral part of the game and he had several opportunities to do it. The fact that he didn't leads me to believe that they are, in fact, changing it up a bit...ie the axe batting.

    also, yes shields are used to parry but its more expected, in that, well, shields are meant to block things...weapons, parry, riposte, death death stab stab, etc.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:42 am

    If parries are returning, the player wouldn't have shown them anyway. We already know what parries are and how they work; no reason to show it off with all the new combat etc.

    I'd like to see a few things changed up, like the riposte window shortened significantly and ripostes only working using small-ish weapons, but otherwise I think the parry/riposte system is great. It's a well-balanced reward for a player who has invested a lot of time learning precise timing. And it punishes failures harshly.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:53 pm

    I've done quite a bit of independent arms research and from what I've read nearly every weapon ever made post 1500's had methods to parry. Including shields. Parrying is simply taking the energy of your enemies attack and using it to divert the energy away from you. This is why swords have the cross guards shaped the way they are, why rapiers often have guards designed to catch the blade of another rapier. This is also why shields have their bowed shape. You even see axes and maces with facets or guards designed to catch the enemy weapon and throw it aside so that you may counter.

    What I'd love to see is options to parry if you are 2handing a weapon. Though I'd also love to see the riposte window shortened. When you get parried and the person has 3-4 chances to attack and land a parry its a bit ridiculous.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Exalted Oreo on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:17 pm

    I think that it might be a good idea to change up how ripostes work like it looks a bit silly when you riposte with a great/lifehunt scythe as you shove the blunt end of a stick (basically) through a persons body.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:25 pm

    Lol, I'd love to see something like Lancelot's parry from First Knight where he takes his opponent's strike, turns it against itself, and flips it from his opponent's hand. And while you may be right, it may be unchanged, but I still hope.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:48 pm

    I'm pretty sure the lack of parries is due to the fact that he's fighting giant enemies throughout the preview, he fought like 3 normal enemies and even then it was probably to show what variety the game had.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:39 pm

    Yes, as I noted, *shrug* perhaps its just me, but if it were ME playing the demo the first thing I would have done is hit the first parry to show the, as THEY SAY, "more realistic reactions."
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Brigade on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:54 pm

    I can't imagine them removing one of the most iconic mechanics of the series. That seems more like something Blizzard or Activision would do.

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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:48 am

    Never said they did, just added better versions.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by ShadowStalker on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:35 am

    i was rlly excited about dks2, but after i saw this video i wont rush to buy it sad
    hopefully when more vids comes out, smt looks good in them, so i can get a little excited again :p

    edit: i cant be the only one who thinks the game looks bad so far, can i?

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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Aevun on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:18 am

    ShadowStalker wrote:i was rlly excited about dks2, but after i saw this video i wont rush to buy it sad
    hopefully when more vids comes out, smt looks good in them, so i can get a little excited again :p

    edit: i cant be the only one who thinks the game looks bad so far, can i?

    You're one of the very, very few.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Halicarnassis on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:38 am

    I think it looks great and better everytime I watch it.. for an alpha version. A bit like demons souls


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:47 pm

    Holy crap, how can you NOT be excited for it? I'm not judging, to each their own, but wow.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:42 pm

    I'm sorry, but I like parries in game for a few reasons.
    1. They do more damage then backstabs. You may not like this, but I'll cover it in a second.
    2. To do a parry, you must see the attack coming, if you sit there and spam the parry button, chances are people will anti-parry you and backstab you.
    3. Parries leave you open to attack. Whether you like it or not, if you miss a parry, you're going to take damage. Not only that, you will be open to the next attack.
    4. Parries make medium and small shields useful. If every shield in the game did a shield bash, there would be no reason to even use a small or medium shield, everyone would use greatshields.
    5. Parries are a good punisher. If it weren't for parries, you would see A LOT more Gold Tracer users. The only reason the game isn't COMPLETELY filled with them is because a few of them know they risk getting parried and losing the fight right from the start.

    Parries are important to the souls games, and I DO NOT want to see them taken out. Backstabs are one thing, but parries are a necessity.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:44 pm

    ...I think people are misunderstanding my post...

    I LOVE parries, but I would rather see more impressive WEAPON parries than SHIELD parries as shields are the obvious for parrying but to use a weapon to turn the opponent's attack is WAY more skillful.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:49 pm

    Most weapons that people even consider viable in the off-hand can parry. Katanas and Curved swords can parry, Gauntlets can parry, Daggers can parry, really the only two weapons that I would even consider using in the off-hand that can't parry is a Straight Sword and an Ultra-Greatsword. But that's just me.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:54 pm

    *sigh* A parry isn't just an off-hand technique, it's a tactical skill that one uses with the weapon at hand or shield to take the attacker's energy and turn it against them.

    What I envision is say Left Hand: Shield....Right Hand: Longsword, while blocking I can take the incoming attack, hit the parry button, drop the block and use the Longsword to turn the attack away leaving them open to the riposte.

    Hope that makes what I'm talking about clearer....I'm not meaning the game mechanic as it is, but the way it works in real life. They are touting the more realistic reactions that the new engine allows for, it would only make sense to make combat more intuitively weapon based.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:56 pm

    If you're saying you should bash their weapon away with your main weapon, that would not be as realistic, and Dark Souls 2 obviously seems to be a try-hard for the realistic point of view. I would love if they added that, but I don't see it happening for one, and even if it did, I don't think many people would use it. Especially when a giant greatsword is about to smash your face in, I'd rather hit it away with a shield than a weapon.


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:06 pm

    I don't think you have a very strong grasp as to what a parry really is....I don't mean just bash away a weapon, a parry is finesse and strategy, not just bashing a weapon.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:11 pm

    A parry is a strength mechanic that was used way back to counter a stronger attack and punish people who were careless with their weapon. A parry consisted of a bash or push of the user's weapon or shield to leave their opponent open to an attack, normally by knocking their weapon out of their hands. Although people would parry with both swords and shields, it was more a matter of mindset. If a warrior did not BELIEVE he could blow away and enemies weapon, chances are they would simply fail like an idiot and die. It has nothing to do with finesse, it was strength and mindset. I realise I may be off the point here, but if you would, please try to clear up what question you're asking, because the topic is called "Finally..." and then you talk about how it seems like parries have been taken out, so my conclusion was that you thought "Parries were finally gone!".


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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:24 pm

    There was no question, and I never once said parries were gone...the name of the post was "Finally...?" as in "Finally they may have changed parries to include main hand action!" and no parries are about strength at all....sure they could be, but I stick to my guns here.



    1
    : to ward off a weapon or blow

    2
    : to evade or turn aside something

    As defined by Merriam-Webster, and honestly I would rather turn aside a blow with finesse rather just blindly hope I could bash someone's weapon away with a random strike.
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    Re: Finally...?

    Post by Dibsville on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:28 pm

    I consider blowing away a 30lb sword with your weapon a sign of strength, but I guess that's just me.


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