Rant about the new gameplay trailer

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:46 am

    Sentiel wrote:because I want the game to be more than perfect.

    Girls say that to me all the time when we're making love. silly

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Frank_White on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:54 am

    @Sentiel

    2. Agreed.

    4. That's exactly what I was just saying, you will get wrecked in PvP if you use an axe. Axes and maces were as viable as swords in DeS PvP, and they should be again. Yes you can combo with an axe if you're strong enough. No one in a real fight with medieval weapons would use it like in DkS, because that would leave you open for counter-attacks and you would die.

    6. It definitely was an overleveled character with good gear. In the IGN interview video published along with the gameplay one, Tanimura seemed surprised when the interviewer mentioned 'accessibility' and said the game will have no such thing. He also said it will be as hard or harder than DkS.

    8. I don't think there's any reason to believe enemies don't respawn. It would be absolutely foolish and would lower their fanbase by a large amount. Of course they respawn, it doesn't even need to be argued about. Either the soldiers didn't respawn for demo purposes, or the game is so unfinished they haven't yet implemented the respawn mechanic. The demo player was also playing badly on purpose, this is to display different types of scenarios for the viewer.

    9. I don't think the animation is bad, if you fall to your death you're bound to do a barrel roll or two. But the fall speed is unrealistic, I hope they realize that.

    10. Tanimura said Estus flasks will be in the game, so they are the main healing method. Why would they add another heal item that you can hoard, making the game really easy? The answer: They won't.
    It's not a grass type item you can collect heaps of, it's most likely a very rare item, otherwise the game wouldn't be "as hard or harder than Dark Souls".

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:58 am

    It is not common at all for games in general to be released in this sort of state, a good deal of things have little textures on them.

    The only games that do release like this are MMO's, and those are known for having glitchy as *** lunaches, Dark Souls doesn't fall under the genre.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Emergence on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:58 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    The new fall animation looks ridiculous and the fall speed is very slow, especially for a guy with full armor.

    Not to nitpick here Sent, but aside from whether or not the fall speed is too slow or too fast, just wanted to point out that according to laws of physics the weight of an object has no effect on how fast it falls. All things fall at the same speed in the natural world, feathers and bowling balls alike. happy


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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:07 pm

    I do hope though that are tall levels you can fall from and that the game has real gravity, so you fall faster the longer you go. I'd love to invade a world at the bottom and have a body fall from the *** sky and just slam into the ground in front of me.

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by DE5PA1R on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:24 pm

    Sentiel wrote:Let's face it. What boss can handle a three man ganksquad? None. This would balance it out. Bossfight would still be easier with phantoms, but still hard enough that you can't make a cakewalk out of it...As I said, co-op would get harder and when I hear Dark Souls and harder together I hear heavenly bells ring...

    I'll just address this point.

    Dark Souls II bosses and Dark Souls bosses are apples and oranges. The AI has been vastly improved and it's extremely likely that bosses will adapt to multiple attackers. I doubt that co-op'd fight will be such a steam-roll here on out.


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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by morte on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:27 pm

    You know what's interesting about the trailer. It showed enough enemies that I've already started creating counter-plans in my head. Like luring the armored turtles into back-jumping and crushing their underbelly. Anybody else thinking about this?


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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:47 pm

    @ Pendant:
    Too much info. :affraid:

    @ Frank_White:
    4. Some days ago, Rob wrecked me with an Axe. They are viable, just harder to use. People don't use them because they're not easy mode weapons like Curved Swords, Katanas, Spears, Greatswords and well...lot of other weapons. Yes, they could be better, no arguing there. The axe swhon in the demo was cool because of it's size. Dark Souls has no medium sized axes. Either tiny Hand Axe, or huge *** Battle Axe and even bigger up to the ridiculous BKGA.

    6. I'm glad they shed some light into that accessibility issue. I'm happy they said it's going to be even harder than DkS. That's exactly what I want from the game. twisted

    8. I'm creating my opinions on what I saw and I didn't see any enemy respawn. Shrug

    9. It's not bad per se, but if the character does that barrel roll every time, it does look silly.

    10. So how do you explain multiple version of the said healing item?

    @ Tolvo
    lol mate I envy you your naivite in this matter. I saw games so bad and incomplete released for full price that even if it was my job to sell them I rather took them away and tried to hide them in the basement of our shop.
    But knowing From, they will finish the game and make it perfect. And if not, I will get some Souvenirs of Reprisal to my collection. twisted
    Spoiler:
    Actually, I will just hide in a corner and cry. sad

    @ Emergence
    I have tested your theory.
    Law of physics aside, my bowling ball landed way before the feather. So here's that.
    Explaining the hole in the neighbours car's roof is a different matter. big grin


    @ DE5PA1R
    WHere in the name of Gwynevere's bra did you get these informations about DkS II bosses? We hardly even saw any of them.
    Perhpas you're secretly one of the devs?! :shock:

    @ morte
    I'd first try to lure it into the light, so I can ditch that annoying torch. Then I would probably test it's damage to my HP and on block. Then I would try to parry it, since I obviously can't backstab it. If all fails and I don;t have any spells for the situation, I would either crush it with a bigass Str weapon, try to aux it, or just use Legolas tactic and start shooting arrows in it's knees.
    If all of that would fail, I would nod in the admiration of the skills of the dsigners of this particular enemy and probably just run away. big grin

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:57 pm

    And I like to be in the know in the gaming world, as I regularly keep up to date on the industry. Cash in games made off of children's movies might end up getting released in that sort of state but a game made by an actual company with a focus on producing a game would normally not release it at its current state. The only case where a normal company would release a game like that is generally if it was extremely rushed as is the case with Sonic 06.

    Please do not assume I am naive because I share a different view than you in regards to what the game will be released like.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Frank_White on Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:36 pm

    @Sentiel

    Do you mean how do I explain the amount of stones of healing he has? Obviously because they can just add 20, 99 or however many they want with a console command. They made the game, they can cheat to make testing easier.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:00 pm

    Tolvo wrote:The only case where a normal company would release a game like that is generally if it was extremely rushed as is the case with Sonic 06.

    Please do not assume I am naive because I share a different view than you in regards to what the game will be released like.
    sad Joke failed. sad

    So...played anything by BioWare, or Bethesda?
    Their games are sometimes released in states I wouldn't dare call beta.
    Nothing against their quality, the games are good, but the state they're in, all the bugs, glitches, unfinished stuff, system crashing. Tsk tsk tsk...

    That is what I meant and while games like that are playable and enjoyable, they can't even compare to the quality of the Souls series.
    Yes, we have online gameplay glitches and there is framerate bollocks, but that's the worst Souls games have, rest is at the top of the industry.
    Frank_White wrote:@Sentiel

    Do you mean how do I explain the amount of stones of healing he has? Obviously because they can just add 20, 99 or however many they want with a console command. They made the game, they can cheat to make testing easier.
    I should've phrased it better...

    I wasn't talking about the number of Stones carried (individual uses), but about their type.
    There were two types of the Stones shown in the demo. That is the reason why I assume they are Grass-like healing items, as it wouldn't make any sense to create two types of Divine Blessing class of healing item.

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:07 pm

    Those games often focus on a lot of scripts with modifiers based upon player actions, causing so many variables that glitches are to be expected. This however doesn't count in regards to certain versions or parts of the series, Fallout New Vegas was absolutely broken and especially on the PS3. However those aren't simple things like texture issues which will be ironed out.

    It would be like seeing that a character has no pupils and going "Yeah I'm not going to get this game, the humans don't have pupils." Obviously they will have pupils but they aren't a part of the models yet.

    I haven't seen actual glitches or bugs in the gameplay, I've only seen things which aren't likely finished.

    Currently the game looks better than Dark Souls in regards to graphics, if you want evidence of this go around Blight Town and really zoom in on the textures of piles, or in New Londo the textures of the corpses. A lot of things are flat in the game with artwork to make them look more jagged at a distance, a common issue with this generation of consoles and even a good amount of PC games. I've noticed a lot more fidelity watching the current gameplay available.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:00 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Those games often focus on a lot of scripts with modifiers based upon player actions, causing so many variables that glitches are to be expected. This however doesn't count in regards to certain versions or parts of the series, Fallout New Vegas was absolutely broken and especially on the PS3. However those aren't simple things like texture issues which will be ironed out.
    Yeah, I quit New Vegas after one of the first missions, that bugged out and I had to do it three times.

    Tolvo wrote:It would be like seeing that a character has no pupils and going "Yeah I'm not going to get this game, the humans don't have pupils." Obviously they will have pupils but they aren't a part of the models yet.
    That's more, or less how I pick my games.
    Not pupils, but there are things, small things and details, that I care about so much that they determine whether I will buy the game, or not.
    For example, I quit Heavenly Sword after a few minutes, because I learned that my character cannot walk, only run.

    Tolvo wrote:I haven't seen actual glitches or bugs in the gameplay, I've only seen things which aren't likely finished.

    Things that aren't finished are glitches and bugs, if the game is finished, they wouldn't be there. Glitches and bugs mean that the devs suck, overlooked something, or rushed.

    I am aware that making games is far more complex than it used to be, thus there are much more issues to resolve and mistakes happen. Even though, I expect the games to have a general standard of quality. It's 2013 and another generation of consoles is closing upon us, so things, like not minding steps on stairs and ice walking are a major issues, for me. It's not like I want them to create something new, if one game can do it, any game can do it as well. Especially if the said game is the predecessor of the game in question.

    Tolvo wrote:Currently the game looks better than Dark Souls in regards to graphics, if you want evidence of this go around Blight Town and really zoom in on the textures of piles, or in New Londo the textures of the corpses. A lot of things are flat in the game with artwork to make them look more jagged at a distance, a common issue with this generation of consoles and even a good amount of PC games. I've noticed a lot more fidelity watching the current gameplay available.
    Yes, Blighttow is really a...blight stain on the reputation of Souls series. The location itself is fine, but the framerate and other issues, like the graphics, as you mentioned are terrible. No arguing there.
    The rest...I dunno, I never really inspected corpse textures, or looked at the piles, of...whatever in Blighttown. I'll rather not, so I'll believe you that they suck. big grin

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:21 pm

    You also remember right that this is Alpha, Pre-Alpha may even apply here?

    It isn't even in beta yet, and the purpose of a beta is to help notice bugs/glitches and remove them.

    I just don't understand why you are upset about a project that is not near completion being incomplete. Of course it isn't otherwise they'd be releasing it soon Sent.

    If it was end of the beta time and things looked this way I could get concern but I just can't see where you are coming from on this.

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by ak1287 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:49 pm

    This entire thread is irrational, knee-jerk hate for something the OP hasn't even seen.

    Which I realize is the point of a rant. Which is also why I dislike rants; no logic.

    I don't see a single positive aspect to this thread, and while I can respect Sentiel and his post count, there is no reason to respect this thread.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by O1va_ on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:28 pm

    Emergence wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:
    The new fall animation looks ridiculous and the fall speed is very slow, especially for a guy with full armor.

    Not to nitpick here Sent, but aside from whether or not the fall speed is too slow or too fast, just wanted to point out that according to laws of physics the weight of an object has no effect on how fast it falls. All things fall at the same speed in the natural world, feathers and bowling balls alike. happy

    You forgot the part about vacuum in your equation. Air resistance does wonders to your feather, bowling ball not so much.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:35 pm

    Tolvo, I'm upset, because that's what I do. I was eagerly anticipating many games in the past, only to be given something...different than what I expected, given the standard the series established.
    That only lead to my despair and loss of game series that I liked. So far, I lost EVERY game series, except for Metal Gear (although Rising was a letdown) and Souls series. It's why I try to defend both from all and any changes. While it will halt the improvement, I feel that there is no need for any, given the risk that the changes bring, which may lead to change of the series standards and me, losing one of the few games I like and cherish.

    Devil May Cry
    Resident Evil
    Dead Space
    Final Fantasy
    ...
    I could continue like this for a long time. sad

    That's why I'm automatically skeptical to any and all changes and dislike them, until proven of their quality. That way, if the series goes down, I won't be dissapointed as much, and if the changes turn out to be good, I will be even more pleasantly suprised.

    ak1287, I've already explained the whole reasoning behind the thread and it's purpose.

    The problem is that I'm hating not only on what I haven't seen, but also on what I already saw. The hate on my part needs not be rational, as I never said it will be. Hate itself is an emotion, thus is to be expected from it to be irrational.

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by DE5PA1R on Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:08 pm

    Sentiel wrote:@ DE5PA1R
    WHere in the name of Gwynevere's bra did you get these informations about DkS II bosses? We hardly even saw any of them.
    Perhpas you're secretly one of the devs?! :shock:

    It's obvious. They wouldn't spend so much time on AI and apply it only to mobs.


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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by ak1287 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:53 pm

    ak1287, I've already explained the whole reasoning behind the thread and it's purpose.

    The problem is that I'm hating not only on what I haven't seen, but also on what I already saw. The hate on my part needs not be rational, as I never said it will be. Hate itself is an emotion, thus is to be expected from it to be irrational.

    I guess that's the issue, then. I don't respect irrational positions, at all.

    But I can laugh at them.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:36 pm

    I'm skeptical myself Sent, but you should focus on the actual changes rather than the process of developing a game. If you look at a game that is still early in production you should expect it to look like it is early in production.

    Now a reasonable concern would be towards the effects of moving with a bow. Given how bows were treated in Dark Souls this could cause a big balance issue and change how bows fundamentally operate. Their damage or accuracy may need to be reduced to offset the movement which could cause them to become interesting but worthless in PvP or PvE. Bows are able to deal a lot of damage in Dark Souls but they may be reduced even further and given the purpose of merely drawing enemies out. That's a concern I can understand based off of a change.

    Metal Gear Rising also isn't Metal Gear Solid, that's a different part of the series. So if you are disappointed it was a Hack and Slash they were up front about that all along. If you just didn't think it was a good hack and slash okay then I understand disappointment there.
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Cartod on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:03 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:@ DE5PA1R
    WHere in the name of Gwynevere's bra did you get these informations about DkS II bosses? We hardly even saw any of them.
    Perhpas you're secretly one of the devs?! :shock:

    It's obvious. They wouldn't spend so much time on AI and apply it only to mobs.

    You and I are gonna get along just fine.

    I'm super stoked for the new AI, because it'll allow fights to be harder in new ways.

    By that, I mean that instead of being hard in the Ornstein and Smough way (2 bosses acting independently of each other that both just charge you until you're dead) or in the Artorias way (Small attack windows and difficult to read tells), we can have fights that are hard in a whole new way.


    Last edited by Cartod on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:09 am

    Tolvo wrote:I'm skeptical myself Sent, but you should focus on the actual changes rather than the process of developing a game. If you look at a game that is still early in production you should expect it to look like it is early in production.

    Now a reasonable concern would be towards the effects of moving with a bow. Given how bows were treated in Dark Souls this could cause a big balance issue and change how bows fundamentally operate. Their damage or accuracy may need to be reduced to offset the movement which could cause them to become interesting but worthless in PvP or PvE. Bows are able to deal a lot of damage in Dark Souls but they may be reduced even further and given the purpose of merely drawing enemies out. That's a concern I can understand based off of a change.

    Metal Gear Rising also isn't Metal Gear Solid, that's a different part of the series. So if you are disappointed it was a Hack and Slash they were up front about that all along. If you just didn't think it was a good hack and slash okay then I understand disappointment there.
    Perhaps you're right...

    I admit that I was so focused on the hit effect of the arrows that I forgot to notice the damage dealt and well anything else, except for the fact that the character wields the bow differently and seems to shoot a lot faster.
    I would love to see bows becoming serious PvP weapons, but in PvE, I'm quite satisfied with how they are in Dark Souls. I did a bow only run and it was a lot of fun. happy

    Hmmmm... I should've chosen a different game for the example. No, I never considered Rising to be a part of the series ever sinse Platinum Games were anounced as the development team. The original Rising concept and design were closer to the core of the series than the current one. Anyhow, what I meant was that the game was a bit dissapointment for Hack&Slash genre, although it had great graphics and awesome OST. It was a letdown, because I was sincerely hoping that Rising will explain the part of the story, where Raiden gets his cyborg body and saves Sunny from Patriots, Also, the game didn't have the quality of details, options and narrative I excpected. Even though it's not a MGS, it still has the series name, so I hoped it would have some of it's core features, even if the genre is different.

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:@ DE5PA1R
    WHere in the name of Gwynevere's bra did you get these informations about DkS II bosses? We hardly even saw any of them.
    Perhpas you're secretly one of the devs?! :shock:

    It's obvious. They wouldn't spend so much time on AI and apply it only to mobs.
    Agreed, but applying superior AI to bosses is actually more difficult than in case of mobs. Bosses have limited space in their arenas and unless there's multiple of them, like O&S and Four Kings, there is little way to improve the odds fighting against superior number of players.

    You can see some improvement in DLC bosses.
    Artorias focuses on host and refuses to ger aggroed by phantoms a lot.
    Manus tends to switch his attacks to hit different player then was originally aimed for.
    These are some slight improvements, but I can't imagine what more improvements can you do, while not resorting to using artificial difficulty, cheap mechanics etc.

    But I have hope in this regard. I was pleasantly suprised by the enemies shown in the demo. The turtle-like enemy that falls on the player when he tries to backstab it. That was very original and something I was missing in the series, so I have high hopes when it comes to enemy design and expect to run into mobs that will make me think "Damn, how do I defeat this?"

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by hey its andres on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:11 am

    Sometimes I feel like the only thing Dark Souls 2 has to worry about is it's fans.


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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:18 am

    hey its andres wrote:Sometimes I feel like the only thing Dark Souls 2 has to worry about is it's fans.
    We plan to beat it, defeat it, humiliate it and reduce it's infamous difficulty to a child's play, just like we did to both previous Souls games.
    So yes, it has a lot to worry from us, fans. lol

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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

    Post by CarverUpqik on Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:12 am

    Sentiel wrote:I haven't been here for a few days and when I found out about the new trailer and gamepley interview I immediately knew I will need to let off some steam.
    So before I will read what everybody else wrote, I have to let the hate flow.
    Here you have it guys. big grin
    These are my comments to the video that popped in my head as I was watching it.

    They say they imrpoved the graphics and I admit that I'm happy to see the clothes of the character moving. Finally! However, the graphics themselves, while improved, seem to have less amount of details and just don't have that "feel" of previous Souls games. Frankly, it looks like something made by colaboration of BioWare and Behtesda.
    Hopefully with less bugs and glitches. big grin

    They also said they want to make the game more realistic, so why does the character hides his shield in thin air and has no sheath for his sword?

    The damage received seems sometimes very low and sometimes very high. I worry for balancing issues.

    Characters movement seem VERY sluggish. I really don't like how it ignores stairs and slides on the floor while walking. Character movement was always well made in Souls games, why make it worse?

    The fighting seems slower than in DkS, which would be a shame and a big letdown, especially after the first trailer, which seemed to have a faster paced combat. I really dislike the movesets shown in the trailers. The character moves smoothly and elegantly, but it seems like the character is not fighting, but just swinging at air. Especially that axe, you can't swing an axe like this and expect to kill something, other than yourself.

    The lack of numbers upon hit is a bit of a dissapointment. I really like to know how much damage I do. On the brighter note, there's chance that it can be just turned off, instead of it being completely removed.

    The HP and Stamina bars got me a bit worried. I would really hate if they had locked lenght. Meaning that none of them would get bigger with leveling up, but the amount that gets depleted gets reduced. That would be really lame imo.

    I hate the new Soul aquisition and Lock On. They have bright blue colours that are quite distrubing to the surroundings and the atmosphere. I see no reason to change those. White, or transparent lock on works perfectly and Soul aquisition was never an issue, so why change that?

    Love the turtloid enemy that fell on the lplayer when he tried to backstab it. Finally an enemy unexploitable by bs.
    Axe throwing dwarf with his perfect headshot, or should I say headsplit deserves a medal. lol

    I really like the idea with the torch. Finally, I won't have the feeling that my character has glowing pants. big grin

    After descending the ladder, the player got attacked by some weak mobs, but after getting killed and returning to the same location, the player didn't get attacked again. This could mean that mobs no longer respawn under some circumstances, or don't respawn at all.

    In some of the screenshots, you could see Elite Knight and Knight set, with Estoc, Parrying Dagger and Target Shield. While I would love to see a lot of new equipment, I'm also glad to have the good old stuff from DkS.

    The new fall animation looks ridiculous and the fall speed is very slow, especially for a guy with full armor.

    Love the locations and the chariot and skeleton dragon were fantastic.

    Drop Stone of Healing...
    I smell trouble from this thing.
    It can be an item connected to the Bonfire, just like Estus Flask is, which would explain the number of uses. However, it could also be an item like Divine Blessing. I would be happy if those got completely removed, but I can live with that. What worries me the most is that it could mean that they returned to Grass system from DeS. That would suck big time imo.

    I really like how the character uses the bow and the damage, but the effect on arrows hit looks ridiculous.

    Most of the things I complain about are things that worked just fine in DkS, so I don't want them changed. Dark Souls should be better, not worse, nor different.

    A few of my friends defended the game by saying that it's not complete yet. While this is true, I have not seen a better version of the game, so I asume this to be the final product quality, which I am severely dissatisfied with.


    Well that's all I have to say about Dark Souls II for now.
    It's the usual Sentiel route of hating on changes made to the series I like, because the changes that were made to my favourite series so far NEVER improved them for me and always lead me to abbandon the series completley.
    I lost FF, DMC, RE and more of games I loved, so I automatically hate on every and all changes and want the series.

    You should not fix something that is not broken, nor enhance something working to the utmost satisfactory.

    all i have to say is that i agree with your statements buuuuut its also not a finished game they were just showing in general what the gameplay would be like. if it was actually finished they would probably be releasing it sooner


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    Re: Rant about the new gameplay trailer

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      Current date/time is Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:43 pm