Explain English Comp. please.

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    EeAyEss
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    Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:53 am

    I'm learning about all these various American authors from the 19th and 20th century and their impact on the art of writing a damned book.


    WHY IS THIS NECESSARY?

    Not only does it bore me to death, but I see no practicality in knowing this information. So what if Mark Twain wrote books that were good and inspired authors? So what if Moby **** was experimental in the fiction genre? Why is this information a standard requirement for school?

    As much as I like learning stuff, this is of no interest of me, and currently serves me no purpose whatsoever.

    Jesus. They should substitute this **** for a crash-course on Common effing Sense. This would be way more beneficial.

    In fact, why not make it mandatory to have home economics, economics, Common Sense, Critical Thinking, and government classes mandatory? Teach people how to function properly in society, don't teach them to become some random douchebag who rants about the greatness of some obscure author from 18XX who wrote some *** book with no purpose but to entertain that somehow has sentimental value and revolutionary concepts. *** you. *** this.


    ***.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by User1 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:02 pm

    School is indoctrination by the government. End of.
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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by densetsushun on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:04 pm

    Mark Twain wrote:The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.



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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by User1 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:05 pm

    Good thing I read a lot of books then.
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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Longshot on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:19 pm

    Good intentions, bad execution. They are of value but they don't teach you why. Students end up seeing the tree instead of the forest.

    You should understand economics and government. One day you will be ***** and moaning about it after watching some news without actually knowing what they mean. You might vote, you might not. But if you do without said knowledge, you will be an irresponsible voter and perpetuate shi*ty government. If you're a citizen, it is your civic duty to understand, be informed and exercise your rights. The converse of freedom is responsibility. Without the latter YOU end up turning the society I live in into crap. So please, even if your school sucks in teaching you stuff, don't be ignorant. The topics are important.

    That being said, I feel for you. The education system is flawed. They teach you garbage in the guise of higher education. Most of the time systems are taught over substance so you have no idea its implications.

    Also, on a side note, schools should teach: taxes (why, how to, who actually pays, and WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T), property ownership/rental, how to apply for jobs/career management, how relationships work (economically and legally), and apprenticeships.

    De-stigmatize not going to college and teach the differences and benefits of going to a 4yr school, the military, community college, straight into workforce, technical schools, etc.

    Teach basic values. Don't be a prick.
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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by densetsushun on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:19 pm

    I'm ironically using that Mark Twain quote to point out the importance of literacy silly


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by densetsushun on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:21 pm

    Longshot wrote:Good intentions, bad execution. They are of value but they don't teach you why. Students end up seeing the tree instead of the forest.

    You should understand economics and government. One day you will be ***** and moaning about it after watching some news without actually knowing what they mean. You might vote, you might not. But if you do without said knowledge, you will be an irresponsible voter and perpetuate shi*ty government. If you're a citizen, it is your civic duty to understand, be informed and exercise your rights. The converse of freedom is responsibility. Without the latter YOU end up turning the society I live in into crap. So please, even if your school sucks in teaching you stuff, don't be ignorant. The topics are important.

    That being said, I feel for you. The education system is flawed. They teach you garbage in the guise of higher education. Most of the time systems are taught over substance so you have no idea its implications.

    Also, on a side note, schools should teach: taxes (why, how to, who actually pays, and WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T), property ownership/rental, how to apply for jobs/career management, how relationships work (economically and legally), and apprenticeships.

    De-stigmatize not going to college and teach the differences and benefits of going to a 4yr school, the military, community college, straight into workforce, technical schools, etc.

    Teach basic values. Don't be a prick.
    Very nicely put. I agree 100%, +1


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:22 pm

    Longshot wrote:Good intentions, bad execution. They are of value but they don't teach you why. Students end up seeing the tree instead of the forest.

    You should understand economics and government. One day you will be ***** and moaning about it after watching some news without actually knowing what they mean. You might vote, you might not. But if you do without said knowledge, you will be an irresponsible voter and perpetuate shi*ty government. If you're a citizen, it is your civic duty to understand, be informed and exercise your rights. The converse of freedom is responsibility. Without the latter YOU end up turning the society I live in into crap. So please, even if your school sucks in teaching you stuff, don't be ignorant. The topics are important.

    That being said, I feel for you. The education system is flawed. They teach you garbage in the guise of higher education. Most of the time systems are taught over substance so you have no idea its implications.

    Also, on a side note, schools should teach: taxes (why, how to, who actually pays, and WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T), property ownership/rental, how to apply for jobs/career management, how relationships work (economically and legally), and apprenticeships.

    De-stigmatize not going to college and teach the differences and benefits of going to a 4yr school, the military, community college, straight into workforce, technical schools, etc.

    Teach basic values. Don't be a prick.

    I did not mean to come off as a prick. I only stated my opinion that:

    I feel and think that there is little to no practical use in teaching people about old novels that influenced the landscape of literature at the time they were published.

    You said, "don't be a prick." Why did you say that? Are you pointing that statement at me?

    I meant to point out that instead of this literature stuff, teach basic values such as government, economics, civics, etc. Practical stuff that WILL be of use. Not this highly specialized information.

    I agree with your statements about school.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by WandererReece on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:19 pm

    EeAyEss wrote:In fact, why not make it mandatory to have home economics, economics, Common Sense, Critical Thinking, and government classes mandatory?

    They are manditory the USA and most european countries.

    Longshot wrote:Also, on a side note, schools should teach: taxes (why, how to, who actually pays, and WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T), property ownership/rental, how to apply for jobs/career management, how relationships work (economically and legally), and apprenticeships.

    De-stigmatize not going to college and teach the differences and benefits of going to a 4yr school, the military, community college, straight into workforce, technical schools, etc.

    Those are manditory too.

    EeAyEss wrote:You said, "don't be a prick." Why did you say that? Are you pointing that statement at me?

    Probably.

    Back on topic: English class is important. The obvious reason is it's our language. The not so obvious reason is it helps explain how we think. It shows what our culture is like. It also lets us make fun of everyone that is currently ripping off Shakespear.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:32 pm

    Common sense and critical thinking classes are mandatory in highschool? Really. I want proof, Reece.

    I understand that English is important, but I've completed my grammar lessons. All the English class is now is background on the various types of novels that were in existence throughout history and their authors. I'll admit, you can cipher information about our culture from various novels of eras long gone, but I already have a course in Sociology and Psychology to figure out why some people are just plain stupid.


    I don't need a book for that.



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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:38 pm

    On the subject of schools and teachings, I am 18 and coming to the end of a 2 year Uniformed Public Service course, and I have to say that I have learnt more in these 2 years about the real world and preparing you for it (the mind set, the qualities etc ) than I have in the rest of my educational years including a year of A levels.



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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by WandererReece on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:44 pm

    EeAyEss wrote:Common sense and critical thinking classes are mandatory in highschool? Really. I want proof, Reece.

    They don't have their own seperate class, but common sense is tought in every class LOL. Look at economics. That class is almost nothing but common sense.

    Critical thinking is taught in about every class that requires you to use your brain. Why do you think they ask questions about events and ask you how it could've ended diffrently?


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:50 pm

    All courses are a foundation. They allow the next step if a person seeks to take it. English Comp. isn't a class that is universally going to be of high value but remember what kindergarten through high school (at least in the US) is intended to be:

    Life skills (home ec, technology, physical education, civics or other variation, basic math, basic sciences, language, etc.) is the primary goal but the secondary goal I would call...

    Life choices. School (at least in the US) through high school is intended to get people ready for adult life. In addition to life skills classes named above, they seek to show students what things there are as possibilities in life. What value is there in art class? Music class? Calculus? How many people go on to make rubber stamps for ink art, or play the recorder or perform calculus for a living? Not many.

    English Comp is in the same boat. It's just in case that someone in that classroom will be writing someday. That person will greatly benefit from the evolution of writing, the structure and how it's changed, etc. English Comp is there for future English Majors, Communications Majors, etc.

    I've done a lot of training for others in my adult life and I used to be constantly surprised by what I felt people should have already known but had to be shown. Until it hit me....and I still tell people this phrase everytime they tell me "Thanks, that's pretty easy actually."

    I reply: "Everything's easy once you know the option exists."

    English Comp won't likely be the only class that bears little value to you, it's just there to show students an option or two they wouldn't necessarily find on their own.

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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:53 pm

    WandererReece wrote:
    EeAyEss wrote:Common sense and critical thinking classes are mandatory in highschool? Really. I want proof, Reece.

    They don't have their own seperate class, but common sense is tought in every class LOL. Look at economics. That class is almost nothing but common sense.

    Critical thinking is taught in about every class that requires you to use your brain. Why do you think they ask questions about events and ask you how it could've ended diffrently?
    I'm not sure where you're from, but they didn't do that in my school. I taught myself. Never once did any class except japanese and 9th grade chemistry (I suspect because the teacher was good) require any real degree of thought on my part. I have put more effort into my pokemon team than it took me to get through highschool.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by nsane32 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:54 pm

    after you hit high school there is really no need for it not like it really matter the failure rate is at an all time high and the education system brilliant idea is to make it more difficult


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:02 pm

    Right. Pardon my little rant, I was a bit angry at English Comp. I still do it, and I plan on finishing it, however I don't see why it's mandatory. Teach me all the grammar rules, basic writing skills, etc. Make learning about old novels and their respective authors optional. That is all I wish for, temporarily.


    And Reece, while it is true that common sense and critical thinking are IMPLIED in every class, half the youth of America shows that only using subtle teaching methods for those skills doesn't work. We need dedicated classes for critical thinking and common sense. Make it a year course, it's really not that much, once you clump it all together. Keep those skills in other courses, to be sure, and maybe increase the usage, or at least make it more obvious.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Longshot on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:12 pm

    EeAyEss wrote:Common sense and critical thinking classes are mandatory in highschool? Really. I want proof, Reece.
    It's not.
    EeAyEss wrote:I understand that English is important, but I've completed my grammar lessons. All the English class is now is background on the various types of novels that were in existence throughout history and their authors. I'll admit, you can cipher information about our culture from various novels of eras long gone, but I already have a course in Sociology and Psychology to figure out why some people are just plain stupid.
    It's substance. If you have teachers with a personal agenda you'll have certain kind of books shoved down your throat that will make you see only a particular facet of society. If you have a legit teacher who is teaching you literature, it will engage you. Don't let HS make you lose your appetite in reading. Reading is good.

    'Don't be a prick' is just a good advice. The school's role as a 'daycare' and secondary 'parental figure' has grown and its influence is big; however it fulfills neither of those roles well. Schools are raising pricks by perpetuating political correctness, targeted omission/addition of topics, lack of disciplinary measures. A lot of things you can only understand once you're out of HS, and you're out paying your own rent/tuition/etc. (or you have someone pay it for you and don't learn the value of... oh nvm. Don't be a prick. It's a good advice.
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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by densetsushun on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:12 pm

    It's my understanding that one of the best ways to test and improve on literacy is to read outstanding pieces of literature. Sure, sometimes it edges towards the crazy speculative side, but that doesn't mean that good literature doesn't test your understanding of a language.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:48 pm

    Ouch, looks like this future teacher, possible author, and lover of literature is pointless. sad
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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:32 pm

    FYI, I'm homeschooled.

    Awww, I'm sorry, Tolvo.

    This is all my opinion. I do not care for the background of literature. Doesn't mean you don't, and I'm not trying to say that you are pointless.

    Unless you are pulling my leg. I can't tell; I don't know you well enough.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:29 pm

    Jon Milton changed my life. 😢
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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:56 am

    I don't think anyone was saying reading is pointless. I love reading. I read all the time.

    That said, I see no point to such classes for most of the population. They don't teach anything relevant to understanding the language, at least the versions I took in high school, but instead focus on meaningless trivia. (eg moby **** was experimental.)

    Try teaching vocabulary at a rate of more than 1 word per day, and focus more heavily on grammar and comprehension, and I suspect the general population would benefit far more than they do being taught that mark twain was a remarkable author. They might even figure it out themselves, having been taught the knowledge to understand his books.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by densetsushun on Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:40 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I don't think anyone was saying reading is pointless. I love reading. I read all the time.

    That said, I see no point to such classes for most of the population. They don't teach anything relevant to understanding the language, at least the versions I took in high school, but instead focus on meaningless trivia. (eg moby **** was experimental.)

    Try teaching vocabulary at a rate of more than 1 word per day, and focus more heavily on grammar and comprehension, and I suspect the general population would benefit far more than they do being taught that mark twain was a remarkable author. They might even figure it out themselves, having been taught the knowledge to understand his books.
    I feel for all of you. My secondary education literature assignments and tests were used to test our comprehension of written English. It was one of the best ways to do so as well, as it's so much different compared to textbook English.


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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by Spurgun on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:12 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'm not sure where you're from, but they didn't do that in my school. I taught myself. Never once did any class except japanese and 9th grade chemistry (I suspect because the teacher was good) require any real degree of thought on my part. I have put more effort into my pokemon team than it took me to get through highschool.

    That's how it is for me (at least so far, i still have ~7 weeks left of highschool). School has always been really easy for me, i can't remember the last time i studied for a test(except for briefly looking through what subject the test was about) and i can't remember the last time i got anything else than a 8,5-10. Hell, i already spoke semi fluent English before they started teaching it to us (in 4th grade).

    I over heard a conversation between my mom and one of her friends. According to her, they have a ton of extra help and programs for people who are worse than the average. But have barely nothing for people who are over the average (she apparently thought that i was an above average student), so they (the students) can't really achieve their full potential.
    I'm not sure if i agree with everything they said. But there are some classes where i wish that my classmates were better. For example, I (and a girl in my class) don't have anything to do 2/3 the time in English and math because we finish everything way before all the others do. And then the teacher doesn't have anything else for us, because they don't expect us to be that fast. So when we could be learning more, they tell us to sit down and stair at the desk for half an hour.
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    Re: Explain English Comp. please.

    Post by WandererReece on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:17 am

    Spurgun wrote:So when we could be learning more, they tell us to sit down and stair at the desk for half an hour.

    That's not how they do it in my area. Each class is about 50 minutes, and the teachers usually spend 40 minutes teaching.


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