Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

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    steveswede
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    Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by steveswede on Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:33 am

    While I really like how the system was simplified from DeS to DkS, I really feel the way you do it should be changed again. One of the things that feel should go is basic upgrade stones. You should not have to upgrade to a +5 before you can then change it to say a magic or elemental path. You should from the get go upgrade to what ever path you want so if you want to say turn a base level mace into a dex scaling weapon then you don't have to invest 9 titanite shards to do it, just start using blade stones.

    Another idea is to make weapon upgrading modular. You can basically upgrade say with lighting and fire stones but depending how many stones you use will determine the damage output. In other words the physical damage could be 15%, fire 15% and lighting 70%. There would be a limit to how many times you can upgrade and probably be the same amount of times you upgrade the normal path.

    Blacksmith will sell embers (or you can kill them for them) so you can smith your swords at bonfires and prevents you from smithing paths (only the certain paths you don't have embers for) on weapons if you don't have them.

    EDIT

    (Just edited the percentage values as I put 30% in both instead of 15% and changed 60% to 70%.)


    Last edited by steveswede on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by prophetteonit on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:43 am

    I agree with this. It's easy to forgot that titanite is native only to Lordran, so whether we like it or not, there will have to be a different upgrade system in DS2. I particularly enjoy the idea of being able to deal fire/lightning/magic etc. all at the same time as well, but I'm not sure how that might affect scaling...it would be kind of cool to add additional levels of upgrade paths with concurrent NG+, ++, etc. (e.g., in the first playthrough you can do up to +10 or the proposed DS2 equivalent, in NG+ you can do up to +15, then +20 and it caps there, similar to Mass Effect 3--that way the player spends less time farming in-game because they can only go so far, so they enjoy the game more). Strictly theoretical, but I like the idea of stepping away from the Dark Souls upgrade methods. Frankly, I don't see FromSoft simply reskinning the process by renaming the upgrade materials and calling it good--that would be uncharacteristically shallow of them.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by FungalPsychosis on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:16 pm

    I hope to see a system more similar to Demon's Souls than Dark Souls. I dunno, I just found the upgrade system in Dark Souls to be ugly. Divine, Occult, Magic, etc hardly see any use, simply because +15 can be buffed. I also dislike that we have two base damage types along with Chaos that is basically fire base damage that scales with humanity. However, I think if it were to be made more like Demon's Souls, it would have to be simplified, just not in the way it was with Dark Souls.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by Myztyrio on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:47 pm

    I disagree. The path is called "normal" for a reason. That should be the route which most weapons are upgraded, and all weapons besides uniques should start there.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:26 pm

    I'm with bringing back the DeS upgrade system. It really made you think about what YOU wanted to do with the weapon. The various magic pathways actually had distinct differences and the various physical pathways had massive pros and cons. Then there were the status effect paths and the path that effected critical hits.

    It was a bit convoluted but with some work it could be a lot better. I would just hate to see the system over simplified and turn into a linear upgrade system.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by MosquitoPower on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:38 am

    steveswede wrote:...Another idea is to make weapon upgrading modular. You can basically upgrade say with lighting and fire stones but depending how many stones you use will determine the damage output. In other words the physical damage could be 15%, fire 15% and lighting 70%. There would be a limit to how many times you can upgrade and probably be the same amount of times you upgrade the normal path....

    Wow that would be sweet!
    Im all for options overload, let the player make a custom weapon for each zone....each monster.

    I know this gets crazy when it comes to balance issues, but the top end of upgrading needs to be higher for special weapons.
    Example, lord soul from newgame1 used on lordweapon = unlock path to +10

    Also I want to see effects on weapons, even if its just cosmetic I want my fire sword to be on fire!


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by Pulleylube on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:41 am

    prophetteonit wrote:I agree with this. It's easy to forgot that titanite is native only to Lordran, so whether we like it or not, there will have to be a different upgrade system in DS2.

    According directly to item descriptions, only titanite chunks and slabs are only native to lordran. Both the large and reg titanite shards make no claim to be specific to lordran. (Neither do green shards, dragon scales, or twinkling titanite)

    "Not found outside of lordran..... With the discovery of chunks in Lordran, the race to discover the legendary slabs has begun" -titanite Chunks

    Also blacksmiths have been said to exist outside of lordran, as blacksmith Rickert says, "Let me show you what made me one of the best blacksmiths in Vinheim." Also when refering to the Large Magic ember, "That's the first I've seen since my banishment from Vinheim."

    Since he was once one of the many blacksmiths of Vinheim it only makes sense that Andre of Astora was one of the many blacksmiths from Astora. And since I would imagine that since both can work with regular titanite shards without any embers one would assume they learned the trade outside of lordran. But then again I am problay missing something blatantly obvious that invalidates everything I am saying.



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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by GreatLordNero on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:56 pm

    FungalPsychosis wrote:I hope to see a system more similar to Demon's Souls than Dark Souls. I dunno, I just found the upgrade system in Dark Souls to be ugly. Divine, Occult, Magic, etc hardly see any use, simply because +15 can be buffed. I also dislike that we have two base damage types along with Chaos that is basically fire base damage that scales with humanity. However, I think if it were to be made more like Demon's Souls, it would have to be simplified, just not in the way it was with Dark Souls.

    I agree there needs to be more balance like so sort of benefit for following a certain weapon path. In DS only fire and lighting were ever really useful.
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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by prophetteonit on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:14 pm

    "I agree there needs to be more balance like so sort of benefit for following a certain weapon path. In DS only fire and lighting were ever really useful."

    Yeah, that really bugged me since it seemed like there were so many possible applications for the other branches but in reality they never presented themselves as worthy adversaries to fire and lightning. I wanted to see divine/occult playing a bigger part since they have the strongest links to the gods.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by WandererReece on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:33 pm

    I think they should combine the Demons' Souls' and Dark Souls' weapon upgrade systems. It would have the structure of Dark Souls, but the choices of Demons' Souls.

    The structure would have to be changed a little bit, but it would be very similar.

    The alternative would be a completely new and unique system that's mindblowing.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by MosquitoPower on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:50 pm

    prophetteonit wrote:...I wanted to see divine/occult playing a bigger part since they have the strongest links to the gods.

    Not to go all LORE on this, but could it be thought of that the power of divine/occult is linked to the power of "the fire"?

    The fire is about to go out... so divine/occult and the boss weapons just don't hit very hard anymore?


    But back on the game code type mindset, the divine weapons should always knock skellitons type enemy apart or something.

    Occult should hit any/all/some bosses for extra damage (that is noticeable!), or should have higher stun rate against silver/black knights.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by prophetteonit on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:31 pm

    MosquitoPower wrote:

    Not to go all LORE on this, but could it be thought of that the power of divine/occult is linked to the power of "the fire"?

    The fire is about to go out... so divine/occult and the boss weapons just don't hit very hard anymore?


    But back on the game code type mindset, the divine weapons should always knock skellitons type enemy apart or something.

    Occult should hit any/all/some bosses for extra damage (that is noticeable!), or should have higher stun rate against silver/black knights.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I wanted to see extra damage or some sort of auxiliary effect on bosses (from occult), and it just wasn't done well for the amount of emphasis lore has on them.

    E.g., we suspect Havel had a falling-out with Gwyn, which is largely reinforced by an occult club being found in the room with his armor and weapon (occult weapons being "god-killers")--but occult weapons just aren't worth the effort to attain in order to kill god-based bosses because they aren't that great anyway.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by MosquitoPower on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:43 pm

    prophetteonit wrote:...occult weapons being "god-killers")--but occult weapons just aren't worth the effort to attain in order to kill god-based bosses because they aren't that great anyway.

    Maybe its a fake out by the gods themselves!

    gods: "Oh gee! I hope no one makes occult weapons! Those are god killers!"

    Havel makes a occult weapon. Sneaks up on Gwin...
    -boink!-
    Gwin terns around unfazed.
    Gwin: "Fooled you!"
    Havel locked in tower...


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by nsane32 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:39 am

    I just want to see some weapons effects like Fire Lightning Dark and Light so that the weapons look more bada**


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:47 am

    nsane32 wrote:I just want to see some weapons effects like Fire Lightning Dark and Light so that the weapons look more bada**


    Agreed. Along with texture changes for things like raw and crystal or anything else they decide to throw in. Nothing extravagant. Just like, a molten metal texture for fire weapons, a blue or yellowish aura around thunder weapons, white/black/blue for magic divine and dark weapons. Raw weapons darker maybe a bit tarnished. Normal would get cleaner as you upgrade and crystal would be even cleaner than the normal. Or maybe actual crystal.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by steveswede on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:47 pm

    GreatLordNero wrote:
    FungalPsychosis wrote:I hope to see a system more similar to Demon's Souls than Dark Souls. I dunno, I just found the upgrade system in Dark Souls to be ugly. Divine, Occult, Magic, etc hardly see any use, simply because +15 can be buffed. I also dislike that we have two base damage types along with Chaos that is basically fire base damage that scales with humanity. However, I think if it were to be made more like Demon's Souls, it would have to be simplified, just not in the way it was with Dark Souls.

    I agree there needs to be more balance like so sort of benefit for following a certain weapon path. In DS only fire and lighting were ever really useful.

    I think both of you have a lack of understanding of weapon scaling, resistances and stat investment, especially when you are limiting your level for builds, you are wrong to think they are the only paths useful. All are useful depending on your investment except one, which is the raw path which eventually gets outdone by the normal path when you get the very large ember. I agree on the part about fire and chaos paths but chaos is there from a lore standpoint. Perhaps it could have been applied differently to make it more useful, same goes for the magic and faith paths but it's no major deal breaker, just a bit of a wasted opportunity to make better differences.
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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by crbngville2 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:30 am

    I would prefer to see a return of the DeS upgrade system. Where not all upgrade paths are available to every basic weapon. It creates more specialization and rewards dedication to a 1 weapon approach in PVP.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:38 pm

    I just want to something more in depth, kinda like steve says.

    However, I'd like to see upgrades that mildly increase damage and drastically increase defense, resistances, etc.

    Some game have extremely complex upgrade paths that allow for almost anything imaginable, Dark Souls could be just as complex.

    It just seems rather..."simple" to me anymore.
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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by Dibsville on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:43 pm

    I don't want to see extra weapon options like this.
    Look back at Demon's Souls, we had TONS of weapon upgrade options.
    In Dark Souls, it was simplified.
    But in Dark Souls 2, having mixtures of options would ruin the game, as people would find a way to min/max their weapons instead of just their stats.
    For example: a Rapier.
    People may find that the Rapier does the most damage at 30% physical, 60% Fire, and 10% Lightning damage. Thus, any elemental builds will put that into their Rapiers. It's only going to make the griefing worse. And we all know that their will be griefers.
    Not at the very beginning, but they'll be there eventually.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:07 pm

    I appreciated the upgrade systemin Demon's Souls, but only because you could almost make ANY weapon and strength weapon, or a dex weapon.

    Some of the upgrade paths had potential, but were not really viable for pvp. Mercury for example.

    @Dibs

    I see what you're saying, but if you think about it, a 30/30/40 split on an ele wep, for example, would actually be very weak and unadvisable.

    That is, if the defense scaling works the same in DkS2.

    But ya, changing the system to the point of ruination would...well ruin it.
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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by Dibsville on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:48 pm

    Yes, I realise it would not be a good choice for the splits, I'm saying people will find a way to do the most possible damage against a person. We already know that a Chaos Rapier will do more damage then a Rapier +15 at 40 DEX without a buff. Looking at it that way, people will find a way to get the most possible damage out of a hit, say 70% and 30% physical.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:03 pm

    I don't see how that would change anything actually. It would if anything make it harder for people to find the weapon that will max their output. The problem you guys are talking about already exists.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by steveswede on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:21 pm

    I'm amazed some people here think that weapon optimization is a problem? That is what I'm reading here right? If that's the case then the only solution would be to remove upgrades, or at least make them only upgradable with twinkling titanite.
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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:36 pm

    What if they made it so that when you upgraded your weapon would change to make it less useful to yourself.

    So like if your build had high strength and you upgraded your claymore, it would begin to scale in dex as opposed to in strength. They should also make elemental weapons do just as much damage to the user as they deal that way if you plan on ganking you'd just die too.


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    Re: Dark Souls 2 weapon upgrade system changes

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:06 am

    steveswede wrote:I'm amazed some people here think that weapon optimization is a problem? That is what I'm reading here right? If that's the case then the only solution would be to remove upgrades, or at least make them only upgradable with twinkling titanite.

    I'm getting some of that too, so no, you're not delusional. :drunken:

    And ya, I don't get it.


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