A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

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    Will you use this new "bbg?"

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    EeAyEss
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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by EeAyEss on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:39 pm

    I'm against it too. I wish it never came about. I can't deny its convenience, so I will use it.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Nybbles on Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:17 pm

    Walter_White wrote:@Nybbles: what are u doing in burg at sl18? With my last build i was at O&S at sl 18.
    There is nice Co-Op and PvP at low SL and it feels like the old times, when u have to do your playthroughts awake and with cautious, instead of running throught and kill the boss in a rush, while looking TV.

    And one of my low SL builds got taurus alive and i grief there the griefer simply by hosting (dried finger)...but i could have been the guy who invaded you. Don't be there at that SL, if u don't want low lvl pvp.

    i was there for the loot and the merchant so i wasn't in the area for PVP per say, but i was in the dragon cov at the time and i always leave a dragon remnant behind in the off chance that i'll get summoned. i'd also only just started the character (been playing for like 30-45 minutes) and hadn't gotten past using base gear yet.

    now i know that there are players that like hang out in the burg and in the parish at a low level, i'm one of them, at least when i'm starting a new character anyway. but i can honestly say that it is pretty rare to run into another player that has cleared Anor Londo at sub SL20, never mind someone who has cleared NG++++ it's not impossible, just unlikely.

    personally, if i have a low level character that is in NG+, i hang out in darkroot basin and invade players that are usually much higher level than i am but are on par as far as gear goes (usually players that are rsting at the bonfire between forest gank runs), it's just not a challenge to hang in the burg with end game gear on a low level character.
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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Jansports on Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:34 pm

    Animaaal wrote:^^^


    BUT WHAT ABOUT SAVING TIME FOR PVP BUILDS?!?!?!

    ^^^sarcasm

    The side of this whole ordeal that offers players a way to save time is not the problem. The problem is that with it comes to potential for impossible stats and infinite health/stam and the like.

    Just because 99 of every stat at SL1 is undesirable Doesn't mean EVERYTHING that this technique provides is evil.

    What you're doing is the Fallacy of Division. Assuming that what is true of the whole (the whole in this case being the save editing) is true of all of it's parts (the part being access to items quickly) While it's becoming clear the Whole is going to cause problems (I ran into a guy who cast WoG 26 times in the parish, while flipping in giants, CLEARLY something fishy was going on) However the prospect of saving time is not degenerative to the community.
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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Automancer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:25 am

    EeAyEss wrote:I'm the only one who is actually going to use the thing for a mule?


    But yeah, the forum is only a small chunk of the community. The general populace sucks so much. sad

    I've used it to test out 2 new builds and i'm extremely happy with the outcome. Once i've fixed them, They'll be made from scratch with my original account. I would say that's a good compromise, using the mule for spare weapons and varied tests for those that lack the time to spend hours grinding.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Jwebby6 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:48 am

    I'd use it if I knew how. I'm making a SL 55 build now for the forum event comin up. Someone just dark beaded the Taurus demon in one hit. However, I do get invaded once on the bridge. (Edit: the invasion happened while I was typing this post. I ended up winning. Stun locked him with the falchion. He was running with some rapier and a dark hand. note: my falchion was base level and I was wearing wanderer starting gear. These guys aren't a serious threat to people who are experienced in PvP)
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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by O1va_ on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:04 am

    Jwebby6 wrote:I'd use it if I knew how. I'm making a SL 55 build now for the forum event comin up. Someone just dark beaded the Taurus demon in one hit. However, I do get invaded once on the bridge.

    I think one of the biggest problems (and one of the best things if not abused) with this new bbg is that it contains all magicks. Its a pain in the... bottom to get the spells you need for caster build, if you need multiple copies of spells aquired once per playthrough. With this bbg you hae most spells x5, so i'm really worried about the rising number of spambuilds in random PvP. Its not hard to dodge a dark bead, its damn hard to succesfully dodge 18 of them, one of them is bound to connect with lag involved. Same thing with GC and black flame. Very few people are going to go through multiple playthroughs just to make magickspamming build, now they don't have to.
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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Jwebby6 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:59 am

    O1va_ wrote:
    Jwebby6 wrote:I'd use it if I knew how. I'm making a SL 55 build now for the forum event comin up. Someone just dark beaded the Taurus demon in one hit. However, I do get invaded once on the bridge.

    I think one of the biggest problems (and one of the best things if not abused) with this new bbg is that it contains all magicks. Its a pain in the... bottom to get the spells you need for caster build, if you need multiple copies of spells aquired once per playthrough. With this bbg you hae most spells x5, so i'm really worried about the rising number of spambuilds in random PvP. Its not hard to dodge a dark bead, its damn hard to succesfully dodge 18 of them, one of them is bound to connect with lag involved. Same thing with GC and black flame. Very few people are going to go through multiple playthroughs just to make magickspamming build, now they don't have to.

    Oh I'm definitely right there with you on that. But what can you do? When I encounter them I'll just do my best to teach them that ridiculously obnoxious strategies don't always work.
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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Walter_White on Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:10 am

    Nybbles wrote:
    now i know that there are players that like hang out in the burg and in the parish at a low level, i'm one of them, at least when i'm starting a new character anyway. but i can honestly say that it is pretty rare to run into another player that has cleared Anor Londo at sub SL20...
    Don't know how they made it to have endgame gear, but it's pretty common in burg at low SL for 90% of everyone there exept the Quester who is starting. I also think this came from the closed bbg, but nothing changed inbetween. Still 85% of the guy who invade me there at low sl got endgame gear and 95% of the guys who summon me via rss got endgame gear.

    They just went through the game on low sl - you have no problem to get pretty much coop and pvp in every area of the game on low sl.

    Nybbles wrote:
    it's just not a challenge to hang in the burg with end game gear on a low level character.
    Invader are in most cases really bad at pvp and the cool gear doesn't replace basic pvp skill, but Duellers via rss are pretty good in most case and i had there very good fights.

    Forget the burg/parish low level griefer - they never where away, nor will they ever go away. Just adapt and try to get fun out of that strange war.


    The Problem is, that the copy protection is broken on PS3 and people got the safegame files on their pc. They WILL start to try out the Stats99/SL1 Hack!
    If they got the tools to do it, they will do it....well thats human.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Halicarnassis on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:45 am

    Right, so the moral of the story - always carry Vow of Silence on all my faith builds.. 2 slots too which is a kick in the Harris but it works a dang side better than the other magic defensive spells.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by O1va_ on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:54 am

    Walter_White wrote:The Problem is, that the copy protection is broken on PS3 and people got the safegame files on their pc. They WILL start to try out the Stats99/SL1 Hack!
    If they got the tools to do it, they will do it....well thats human.

    I'm not sure if this is going to be that big of a problem. When you have griefers running in full giants and chaos shotels does it really matter if they have all stats at 99? New players get killed either way.
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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Dutchy on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:06 am

    I havn't been keeping up on this but, But I think they should have a BBG glitch available, but with a certain threshold you have to pass. It's impossible, but one can dream. I've put at least A thousand hours into DkS and I wish I could just think of a build and go bam


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:53 am

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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:08 pm

    I disagree. Planning ahead is the essence of the souls series. If you don't plan ahead you get brutalized.

    If it only works in the arena, with items you've earned in the main gaim, and after one has beaten NG then its not impeding anything or detracting from the main experience, just giving duelists the freedom to make pvp builds without spending 15 hours beating pve for the 900th time.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:22 pm

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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:49 pm

    Not with farming slabs, and definitely not with farming spells.

    You also seem to be laboring under the delusion that a build can be tested before its done. In my experience, an accurate feel for the effectiveness of a pvp build takes at least 5 hours of pvp, after the 8-25 hours of building.

    You are also recommend a dedicated pvper be penalised 25 (top end) hours became they had an idea for a pvp build that didn't pan out. Thats as is now, but thats really extreme.

    And I would imagine no more people would just do the arena than just duel in places like the moon pit now. Its essentialy the same thing. If there's anything that the FC's and arena have shown its that people like invading. There are still plenty of invaders outside dueling areas. I'm quite fond of the thrill of the hunt, and the random aspect of regular invasions. For those builds, it would be do it the normal way. No reason to penalise duelists.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Walter_White on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:50 pm

    O1va_ wrote:
    Walter_White wrote:The Problem is, that the copy protection is broken on PS3 and people got the safegame files on their pc. They WILL start to try out the Stats99/SL1 Hack!
    If they got the tools to do it, they will do it....well thats human.

    I'm not sure if this is going to be that big of a problem. When you have griefers running in full giants and chaos shotels does it really matter if they have all stats at 99? New players get killed either way.

    No, the average, not hacked giant/chaos shotel i killed with a new toon with a normal Claymore+5 and with better weapons i loot them naked in burg only with my lightn. clay+5 and my grasscrest shield.
    With Stat99/sl1 they with eventually kill me and i won't learn anything from that long fight (some of them even don't manage to land one hit).

    We already have that situation, as i stated several times.


    But i also see pretty much of those funny, but annoying builds i've seen on muggenmonkey in the future ps3 pvp. Like the Hatemail Generator V2 (ninja flipping giant, spamming dark orb/bed at SL125 - extreme END/INT Build), or Ganker Killer (extreme VIT build with giant and spear/leo ring).

    Don't get me wrong, i also love my giant and my family masks, because i like big weapons and tank build with big weapons just seems to be right with this armor i combine with havel gaunlets and if i need a helm the black iron (looks great).

    But those builds i found on muggenmonkey are hard to build, because they are really extreme in the stats and only good for a joke, not for serious duel or fight club. They will win a lot, but are trying hard builds with annoying tactic. Now you get them in a blink of an eye...


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:51 pm

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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by roanispe on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:02 pm

    I swear you're being intentionally disingenuous, and argumentative.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:23 pm

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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by crbngville2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:23 pm

    I agree with you Roan. And BTW thanks for the duels in PW acouple of weeks ago. The moonsword build of your is tough, and you got mad skills.Please stop by PW any Friday night, would love to get some rematches (no matter how many times I lose).


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Emergence on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:41 pm

    I disagree empaphatically that the wiki and mugen tell you everything you need to know. I may test drive a car on the merit of its specifications but I reserve judgement until I've actually felt how it handles. There are entirely too many subtle parameters in Souls Series combat to be satisified with an on paper presentation, amd this is further intensified by individual playstyles. Assuming otherwise is narrow. Street Fighter, Tekken, BlazBlue, KOF and every other fg has a roster of dozens of preplanned characters to choose from and more are always added to cater to styles and tastes. I don't fight with Blanka because he looks cool, or because I read his dash distance, or saw a vid on his zoning. I fight with him because he fits my approach to the game, and I choose him after spending time with many others.

    This game is 2 in 1 and it's time for people to realize that. It is an open world 3rd Person action rpg. It is also a 2D fighter in a 3D shell. There is and always has been two overlayed comunities who co-exist, and the meta pvp community has always been the one to make adaptations to achieve their goals of carving out a niche with like minded folks.

    I adore PvE. I also adore PvP. PvE is plug and play. So is environmental PvP. Organized PvP outside of the arena is not as easy, and it is also the crucible of vibrant build discussions, which infuse life and fervor into this game.

    I am open to whatever ideas increase the enjoyment and shelf life for this game. A NG+ respec option (at a soul cost) could work, ensuring that people still play the game at large. The point is that without a quick way to make builds, we are being deprived of the beautiful tapestry that innovation leaves behind. One way or another people are going to find a way to make quick builds. It is being done now and at no detriment to the game's activity ecosystem. PvE and environmental PvP are astoundingly still active almost 2 years after release, and it co-exists with a large organized PvP community who are overwhelmingly using glitches/exploits/hacks to make dozens of builds. So that is proof that the situation is sustainable, and if the game makes it so that those exploits are not needed we will be more protected against the more unsavory side effects of hacked gaming. Environmental pvp will not suffer because there are enough people interested in the hunter/hunted vibe.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:28 pm

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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by crbngville2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:52 pm

    @ Animaal
    You are very opinionated person, who seems to very passionate and pro-form. Amazingly, I can not ever remember seeing you at a forum event. One begins to wonder......Are your opinions just that. The opinion of someone who talks better than they fight? Or are these opinion rooted in an indepth knowledge of game mechanics and skill? One really begins to wonder?

    For everyone on this forum that it is tired of your blatant, over the top opinions and unwillingness to see anything but your own way.....I am calling you out. I want to see if your toons can back your mouth up. There is plenty of time for you to build a Sl55 before the next event. Maybe bring a Sl100 to the Wiki Fight club. Or meet us in the PW with a Sl120-130 for Friday Night Fights.

    You have talked the talk. Let's see if you can walk the walk. Your such a fan of the Forum. Show up and participate with something besides your opinion.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by Automancer on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:26 pm

    ^Can anyone participate in these Friday night fights?
    I'd like to join since i rarely have anyone else to play with except randoms in the burg.


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    Re: A serious can of worms. Namely, the new "bbg"

    Post by crbngville2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:51 pm

    All are welcome at Friday Night Fights. There is a post, with the same title, if you would like to see the rules.

    Just send me friend request tomorrow and I will send a chat invite.


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