Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

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    Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

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    Rumeye
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    Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Rumeye on Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:59 am

    I don’t know if this has been discussed or not but what the hell! I’d like to see what you guys think.

    What i’m talking about here is the advantage from the mental/ psychological side, and in terms of preparation too, this might sound like im digging too deep but bear with me will yea. From my experience playing this game i came to notice that when i’m hosting i have more confidence, i can read my opponent more accurately and come up with better ways to approach the fight, on the other hand when im invading i find myself most of the time just engaging them in battle without putting much of a thought into what im doing.

    As a host i’m playing on my home ground, he might know the place but its my world, i think that way of thinking is actually an advantage to hosts, while the host is waiting to be invaded all prepared full of confidence, the other guy is looking at the screen saying "invading another world etc..", he might be prepared too but all in all hes leaving his world to fight an unknown someone.

    This is all from my personal experience it might not apply to any of you, but i actually asked some friends that play this game and they agree with me. The point being...i think a host has the psychological advantage, and i’m talking about the ones that actually wants to be invaded, and thats a huge advantage in my opinion as someone who might be not as skilled as you are may beat you easly if he had enough confidence, he’d surprise you with a few attacks and you’ll think alright im gonna counter him in a second but next thing you know is that he has already owned that fight in the strangest way because you were busy being surprised while the other guy is thinking im gonna kill this bastard.

    I found a way to counter this when invading, which is don’t be formal, and when you’re forced to be formal keep you’re cool and remember your goal : kill the damned host!

    Now i know some of you might get a good lough reading this and its alright 8), but i thought i’d share my thoughts (no pun) with you all and see what you think.

    Last i want to say is yes, skill is important in this game but being psychologically and or mentally prepared is just as important, because you might be very good but in occasions you’d feel that this is just not your day, and it has nothing to do with your skill, but not always of course.

    EDIT: Poll added.


    Last edited by Rumeye on Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:21 am

    Hosts have an advantage because they can summon phantoms and cast buffs before the invader appears, and he can kill off all the enemies in the level to neutralize whatever advantage the invader would get from them.

    Psychological advantage? Depends on the person.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Rynn on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:40 am

    the host has the clear advantage. He does not have to engage. He has infinite time to summon phantoms, or wait for you to come back towards him. He does not have to play your game. You are at his mercy, he can heal, he can summon, he could camp the spawns with TWoP if neccesary. The advantages a host has available to him is in fact why most of the "Honor" rules exists.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Rumeye on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:28 am

    Saturday-Saint wrote:Hosts
    have an advantage because they can summon phantoms and cast buffs
    before the invader appears, and he can kill off all the enemies in the
    level to neutralize whatever advantage the invader would get from them.

    Psychological advantage? Depends on the person.

    Not always, sometimes it depends on the situation.


    Rynn wrote:the host has the clear advantage. He does not have to engage. He has infinite time to summon phantoms, or wait for you to come back towards him. He does not have to play your game. You are at his mercy, he can heal, he can summon, he could camp the spawns with TWoP if neccesary. The advantages a host has available to him is in fact why most of the "Honor" rules exists.

    This is exactly what i mean, you’re in his house you play by his rules, in most of the cases anyway.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Pilgrim34 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:42 am

    Depends on how capable the host is, if he has killed most of the enemies in the area, has phantoms with him, holds his ground and waits for the invader to attack first then they will always have a clear advantage.

    If they're foolish and allow the invader to dictate the pace of the fight by being lured into areas with enemies or environmental hazards then the tables can turn.

    I've had a lot of situations during invasions where I've managed to win a 3v1 against players who really should have beaten me. I think what happens is that some hosts and phantoms will get a rush of blood to the head when they see a lone invader appear, and this will disrupt their teamwork and discipline as they rush towards them, determined to go for a quick kill, and then get lured into dangerous situations ending with their deaths.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by User1 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:49 am

    I agree with everyone else. The host must have the clear advantage because of so many different things. I encountered someone spawncamping my RSS when trying to get summoned for a fight club. He had CMW on a Washing Pole, and would relentlessly attack me, until death.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:23 am

    If I'm sitting around randomly and someone invades me, I am not mentally prepared to fight them as well as if I were to camp at the spawn point expecting a duel. When I'm waiting for a duel however, I always feel like I have the best psychological advantage.

    When invading, I am always ready to fight because I can choose when to do so. Hosting doesn't necessarily allow you to do that unless you summon someone through the RSS.

    So for me, it doesn't really matter - as long as I know I will be fighting and my mind is on it I'll be fine. But if I get invaded while making a trade for example, I tend to fight very badly.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by WaffleGuy on Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:20 am

    I also feel that when I invade (or play as a summon), I have a lot less to lose than if I were a host. My skill in PVP varies quite a lot depending if I'm a host or not.

    I'd be one crappy king defending his homeland, that's for sure silly

    Could also be that I'm more prepared for a figt then. But the first sentence is the biggest factor for me


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by raecor14 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:23 am

    tbh they are pretty equal
    host has estus, invader has help, host has ganking, invader has running away then humnity healing.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by User1 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:58 am

    There was a point made earlier that the host can eliminate the factor of invaders running into enemies to heal. They can just kill them.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Kirk-Barb on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:54 am

    If you look at a the fights individually, the host does have the advantage. Usually higher level, can choose where to fight, and have up to 2 friends... etc...etc.

    But, if you look at it as an evening of fights. The invader has the advantage. The invader will have more fights. He is always ready to fight, while not all of the hosts will be. In fact some hosts will only be hosting because they just kindled a fire. The invader loses nothing when he's defeated, while the host does. So an invader can fight all evening no matter his skill, while the host better have some skill. Especially in the forest.

    So if I was to choose which is better for me, considering my skill level, I'd have to go invader.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:17 pm

    Host, clearly. They know when you are coming at least 1 minute before you show up. They can have up to 20 flasks and can almost instant heal their phantoms. They can summon, camp, speed run to the boss, hide. etc.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:12 pm

    Depends on the area, host playthrough number, and host build.

    -Host is at a disadvantage if they are not prepared for the area.
    -Host is at a disadvantage if monsters can do upwards of 900 damage per hit and are still alive when the invaders come (I'm looking at you, Darkwood Forest Bandit)
    -Host is at a disadvantage if their build revolves around castings/miracles for damage output; those are used up relatively quickly, and invaders can come in droves when they're out.

    Otherwise, host has the advantage. They can do everything the invader can (humanity, DB, etc) and more (estus, Phantoms, prep time).


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by GrinTwist on Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:19 pm

    Most of the time it depends on what the host is doing before the invader finally appears.

    Hosts are normally given a heads up when an invader is coming into their game because of walls of fog. That gives them enough time to clear out a few enemies in the area so they can keep the invader from ganking them and set up in an area where they can jump the invader.

    Let's not forget the host has estus flasks and humanity, while the invader only has humanity or divine blessings (if they have them).

    There is also the issue of the host camping by the spawnpoint either alone or with a phantom or two.

    Let's not also forget that the host (if questing or a coward) can simply run towards a boss gate if they want to either get done with a level or don't like the idea of losing.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Dibsville on Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:23 pm

    IMO, the invader ALWAYS has the advantage.
    It's more of a psychological factor than anything...
    An invader is supposed to hunt the host.
    This means that 95% of the time, the host runs from the invader. It's the fear factor.
    If you're dueling, all is fair.
    But in random invasions, invaders have the clear advantage. And they have better equipment augmented to PvP, hosts will have PvE equipment.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by User1 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:25 pm

    I use a Broadsword in PvP. I use it in both PvE and PvP, so I don't know if that point about equipment inclined for use in PvP always works, but it is the vast majority of the time.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by GrinTwist on Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:27 pm

    Dibsville wrote:IMO, the invader ALWAYS has the advantage.
    It's more of a psychological factor than anything...
    An invader is supposed to hunt the host.
    This means that 95% of the time, the host runs from the invader. It's the fear factor.
    If you're dueling, all is fair.
    But in random invasions, invaders have the clear advantage. And they have better equipment augmented to PvP, hosts will have PvE equipment.

    That kind of depends on the person that you're invading. I agree, that if your invading a new player chances are they will panic.

    But as of right now, most players that you invade are the experienced players that are already confident in their PVP skills or new hosts that have summoned phantoms that know the area much better than most other people. It's because of the phantoms that the invaders can be put at a disadvantage.

    The phantoms know where to go when "______ has invaded". Unless they are just as new as the host they will probably know how to set up an ambush on the invader.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by Paragon on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:03 pm

    Im Probably a little weird in that I almost never host. I like invading way too much. When you are the host you typically know exactly where the invader is gonna be. But when your invading the Host could be anywhere, literally anywhere. I like that excitement. The rush of hunting down my prey, spotting the target, and then engaging. You can't do that to the same extent when your hosting.

    I have split my builds for both sides of PvP. I have Host builds which rely more on weaponry and arrows for combat. I also have invader builds which use spells and buffs.

    In my experience I had more of an advantage as a host because of Estus flasks. As long as you back up to a wall before taking a swig, Dem flasks can make all the difference. There is some advantage to being an invader, especially if you have a buff. In my case I play better as an invader but my greatest challenge is fighting a host who chugs and who ganks with two phantoms. You can't do either of those as an invader.

    Both have advantages but Host has potential to have greater overall advantage.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by User1 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:04 pm

    Can we come to a conclusion? Which I think is that the host has the advantage.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by GrinTwist on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:07 pm

    It seems as though most people would agree on this, I think this thread needs a poll just to make sure.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by User1 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:08 pm

    Will the owner of the OP put it in though? We are yet to find out.
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by GrinTwist on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:10 pm

    The suspense is killing everyone.


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by User1 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:14 pm

    I am dying right now. Can someone help me up?
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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by GrinTwist on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:18 pm

    Here, I'll give you my :00042:


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    Re: Who has the advantage ...Host or Invader?

    Post by User1 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:20 pm

    Thanks. I feel much better now. I'll give you mine too.

    :00042:

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