Mages, my realization

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    ted1023
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    Mages, my realization

    Post by ted1023 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:14 pm

    I have had this game since it came out and never built a mage before. I read people from all forums complainig on how mages were OP especially since the Dark Magic came into play. I was on the other side of the fence, I felt that there is a counter for every spell and they can be dodged fairly easily.

    I have created my first mage build and Holy Crap are they OP..lol.. I built it mainly for PVE but have delt with some invaders and at first I wasn't used to fighting as a mage, but after sometime, I just destroyed invaders one shotting them with crystal, darkbead , hell even 2 shotting them with soul spear. When you can do over 1100 damage on a single hit and over 1500 with boosts on. i'm sorry it's OP..LOL... this is just my observation on a level 120 mage toon..


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by LunarFog on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:23 pm

    Um...I believe calling things OP isn't allowed on these forums anymore.

    Although I agree with you 100%

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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:28 pm

    But are you finding just the Dark Magic to be OP or the pre-DLC soul sorceries to also be OP?

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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by WandererReece on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:33 pm

    Emergence wrote:All threads that are framed as so are to be halted completely:

    "X and Y is OP"
    "I hate X and Y tactic/weapon/setup"

    They are to be reborn as:

    "Need help countering X and Y"
    "How should I approach beating X and Y"


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by mugenis4real on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:41 pm

    Neither of the Soul Spear spells are OP. They are much too slow for PvP, making them practically useless outside of PvE.

    On the other hand, Dark Bead is without a doubt powerful at any SL.

    Sounds to me like you either encountered a few players fat rolling with no greatshields, or you just discovered the DLC spells.
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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:45 pm

    Ooh ooh.....me me....I can help counter these things.

    I just fought what I would consider a semi-skilled mage and wrecked his night pretty good despite the "OP" factor.

    Enter mage. Starts off "innocent" with HCSM. Then he turns into a bush. Oh noes....whatever will I do without my lockon?

    Oh yeah, two hand my great scythe (blueberry buff not lemon buff since it was on my dueling toon not my main) and run right at him. Roll through the HCSM, show him that that running attack ain't no joke son! Ouch, what happened to your life bar buddy, feeling a little low aren't we.

    He of course realizes that I will not allow time to cast those spells again as I'm right on top of him so out comes the MLGS. Not a problem. Easy to dodge, let him get some space to think he's working it hard. In comes the run again. A couple R1 chips just to show him I can. Off he goes. A few energy waves, easily dodged and I can almost feel the panic. So I charge again. He's ready for that. With Dark Bead.

    I'm ready too. I ran unlocked at him and went slightly to his side. Not much. Out of six beads he was counting on he hit one, maybe two. Nowhere near as hard of a hit as my Great Scythe. Thank you sir.....I do so enjoy your humanity.

    Some statistics:
    I have about 350 hours between all my characters combined. I am not a veteran at PvP

    That night, with about two hours of playing, I had maybe three fights in PvP. My connection SUCKS and therefore I get little practice some nights.

    I have done barely any PvP since the DLC was released and have fought Dark Bead users maybe three or four times.


    Conclusion: In a test against persons of similar skill level, my fast rolling, endurance overpurchased Tarkus build decimated his pure caster. So there you go....a few tactics for others (since you're the mage) to successfully combat mages.

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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by Dibsville on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:51 pm

    The Soul Spears are strong, yes, but definitely NOT OP. You have to remember that, unlike other spells such as Dark Bead, and some strong miracles such as Wrath of the Gods, the Spears take a HUGE amount of Intelligence in order to use, so much that you almost have to base your build around INT. 36 INT for Soul Spear is quite a lot considering that it only hits about 900, Crystal Soul Spear takes a HUGE 44 INT in order to use. If anyone levels something that high just to use something that can be easily dodged and only has four casts, (assuming they're not using Tin Crystallization Catalyst), then that's fine by me. Now, Dark Bead is OP, yes, as it only requires 16 INT to use, but the thing about it is if you don't level up your INT to around 30, Dark Bead only caps at around 700 damage, even with Sorcery Boosts. Although, at extremely low levels this can be huge, at any medium level, Sorceries are not the strongest things in the game...


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by mugenis4real on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:01 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:Conclusion: In a test against persons of similar skill level, my fast rolling, endurance overpurchased Tarkus build decimated his pure caster. So there you go....a few tactics for others (since you're the mage) to successfully combat mages.
    You fought a Caster, not a Pure Mage. A PURE Mage wouldn't have bothered carrying a Moonlight Greatsword.

    Still, sounds like you kicked A$$. winking
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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by Emergence on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:06 pm

    Magic hits hard, but rather than a black and white declaration that it is op, I ask that the focus be on the mechanics at play and how it can be countered/improved.


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by Pilgrim34 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:31 pm

    The times that I've come up against mages/casters on invasions, I have noticed that they generally have far less HP than other types of builds (probably because of all those points in INT or the Dusk Crown which reduces HP), so if you have a fast-rolling character with decent stamina you can easily get behind them and bs them for a OHK even without a rapier or hornet ring. Keep close to them and keep the pressure on so that they can't cast. A +5 crest shield is also good if you're not too confident in being able to dodge the sorcery, with decent stamina it will keep you alive against their casting.


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by swordiris on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:35 pm

    Best counter to mages.

    Great Magic shield.

    Yet I never see it.


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by BusDriver210 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:41 pm

    Try Crystal Ring Shield or Gargoyle's Shield. As stated above Great Magic shield is also amazing.

    Most people don't even prepare to fight mages and often just get flat owned by one mistake. Try to counter with strong magic defense.


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by ted1023 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:41 pm

    Lmao.. easy there.. What I mean by OP is I never realized the true amount of damage that a single cast can do and so easily. Like I said I never built a mage before and this was interesting to see. I still think and know there is a counter for everything. I'm strictly a dex build. Melee all the way for me in pvp, so I'm not use to seeing these kind of hit numbers from a single blow, aside from the usual great club crystal buff hornet ringed users..lol, normally in melee fights you can get hit with maybe 500/600 damage and still have health left to recover and make it interesting. But when you get hit for 1500 dmg from a sing blow cause you missed stepped.. wow that's a lot.. Dark Bead is in a class all its own..lol


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by swordiris on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:53 pm

    BusDriver210 wrote:Try Crystal Ring Shield or Gargoyle's Shield. As stated above Great Magic shield is also amazing.

    Most people don't even prepare to fight mages and often just get flat owned by one mistake. Try to counter with strong magic defense.

    Those work as well.

    Just remembered great magic barrier for faith builds. Very underrated self buff. I'd pick it over green blossom.
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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by The_Red_Drifter on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:58 pm

    Was having issues with a gimmick regen build against sorceries and buffs, so I decided to say screw it and used Great Magic Barrier over Bountiful Sunlight. The very next duel was against a pure mage. He didn't stand a chance. Also preceeded to win every fight that night involving a caster/buffer. Funnily enough it was other gimmick builds that were destroying mine afterwards.
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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by RANT on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:04 pm

    the only thing tha makes it 'op' is lag, and there's a lot of lag in dks.


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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by mugenis4real on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:25 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:the only thing tha makes it 'op' is lag, and there's a lot of lag in dks.
    If we go down that road then EVERYTHING is OP. So many lagstabs...

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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by Nybbles on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:28 pm

    ^^ yup

    when a Crystal Soul Spear cuts a swath of destruction 40ft wide or dark bead can hit you even though you are already behind the caster, you're in a world of hurt because it no longer matters how good you are.

    this is an extreme case but i've actually seen soul spear hit two players at the same time even though we were on opposite sides of the caster. the spell actually missed us both yet somehow one shot us at the same time, try doing that with a backstab…*** magic.
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    Re: Mages, my realization

    Post by RANT on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:35 pm

    mugenis4real wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:the only thing tha makes it 'op' is lag, and there's a lot of lag in dks.
    If we go down that road then EVERYTHING is OP. So many lagstabs...

    yep, it's the reason i dont bs only after they bs me.


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