Bow Damage

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    ksac42
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    Bow Damage

    Post by ksac42 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:00 pm

    I don't understand how bow damage works.

    I have a +5 divine shortbow with 13 dex and 35 faith. Because it's divine, it should scale on faith and not dex.

    When I try to snipe creatures from a distance with heavy or standard arrows I only see it doing really low damage - usually single digits. This doesn't make sense given my faith score. Am I misunderstanding the mechanics? Is the number only showing the physical damage and not the magic damage?

    Note that the damage gets respectable with moonlight arrows but they cost 500 souls each!

    Thanks!
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    skarekrow13
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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:37 pm

    Any bow that uses magic or elemental damage is usually terrible. The reason is that for every type of damage it does, it has to go through the applicable defense as well.

    So for instance (I'll make some numbers up to illustrate), if a normal bow/arrow combo does 300 damage, purely physical and the person's physical resistance (thrusting/piercing in this case) stops 110 of it, the bow would do the remainder or 190.

    Now let's assume equal splits. The bow/arrow combo does 150 physical and 150 magic.
    Same physical resistance stopping 110. So the physical part of the bow does 40 damage. That leaves the 150 magic damage. Assuming their magic resistance is less (which is common) and stops 75 damage, that means it still reduces the magic damage to 75. This, added to the 40 physical damage means it would only do 115.

    I made magic resistance lower in my example since it is common and explains why the magic damage arrows still perform ok. Using those arrows might unbalance your damage split. So instead of 150 physical and 150 magic, it might be 100 and 200 respectively. While the physical is completely negated we only deal with magic. 200 minus the 75 the resistance stops means the magic arrows still outperform the physical ones.


    Edit: I forgot to mention that range might be an issue as well. I would have to look up Moonlight arrows, but large arrows have shorter range, meaning that there is a faster damage drop off with distance. If you want physical damage and range, feather arrows on paper do less than large but will do 100% of their damage at a far greater range. So at major distances it's better to do 100% percent of a feather arrow's damage rather than say 50% of a large arrow's



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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by ksac42 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:42 pm

    I bet you the problem is the range as you mentioned. Do feather arrows actually extend the range of your bow (50 for a shortbow), or just allow for greater damage up to 50 at which it does zero like any other arrow?
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    skarekrow13
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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:03 pm

    They extend the range, therefore the damage. I don't recall the numbers but think of range as maximum distance at which you get the full damage. Feather arrows have a 20% increase I think meaning you get their full 50 damage at a much further range. After max range is exceeded the drop off is sharp. Most distance shots in my experience are out of even the feather arrow range for max damage meaning you're experiencing drop offs even with your best setup. So by that time/ distance your large arrows are waaay out of range

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    Seignar
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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by Seignar on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:42 pm


    I have a +5 divine shortbow with 13 dex and 35 faith. Because it's divine, it should scale on faith and not dex.
    When I try to snipe creatures from a distance with heavy or standard arrows

    The problem. Bows have such a strange way of calculating damage. The magical AR of bows does not apply to arrows if arrows do not have magical AR themselves. This means that the magical AR of the bow is not being used unless you use Moonlight Arrows. The damage you're dealing is purely physical.

    If you want to see numbers: Use Moonlight Arrows. Otherwise, most people would recommend Elemental Bow paths (Fire) with the use of Fire Arrows; it is the best cost-efficent non-scaling Bow usage.

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    Elifia
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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by Elifia on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:11 pm

    Seignar wrote:The problem. Bows have such a strange way of calculating damage. The magical AR of bows does not apply to arrows if arrows do not have magical AR themselves. This means that the magical AR of the bow is not being used unless you use Moonlight Arrows. The damage you're dealing is purely physical.

    Are you absolutely 100% sure about that? Because I am 100% sure that I have done more damage with lightning bows than regular bows, even though the regular bow had more physical AR than the lightning bow, while using regular arrows.
    My theory:
    The reason you see such a significant increase in damage is because the elemental damage has already gone through the defense, so extra damage of that element will no longer be affected by it that much. And fire/moonlight arrows and lightning bolts actually have a pretty high total AR.


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    skarekrow13
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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:24 pm

    That would also be news to me. Not that I'm saying it's wrong. This game has a way to surprise me. Probably test it tonight for fun

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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by Brigade on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:27 pm

    Elifia wrote:
    Seignar wrote:The problem. Bows have such a strange way of calculating damage. The magical AR of bows does not apply to arrows if arrows do not have magical AR themselves. This means that the magical AR of the bow is not being used unless you use Moonlight Arrows. The damage you're dealing is purely physical.

    Are you absolutely 100% sure about that? Because I am 100% sure that I have done more damage with lightning bows than regular bows, even though the regular bow had more physical AR than the lightning bow, while using regular arrows.
    My theory:
    The reason you see such a significant increase in damage is because the elemental damage has already gone through the defense, so extra damage of that element will no longer be affected by it that much. And fire/moonlight arrows and lightning bolts actually have a pretty high total AR.

    The longbow has a base damage of 90 at +15. Lightning is 165/180. Lightning weapons will always outperform +15 with base stats. I'm almost completely sure that no weapon does more base physical damage at +15 than a Lightning weapons physical damage at +5, with several weapons having more at +5.
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    WandererReece
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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by WandererReece on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:31 pm

    Seignar wrote:The magical AR of bows does not apply to arrows if arrows do not have magical AR themselves.

    I've done some tests that claim otherwise.


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    Re: Bow Damage

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:35 pm

    Brigade wrote:
    Elifia wrote:
    Seignar wrote:The problem. Bows have such a strange way of calculating damage. The magical AR of bows does not apply to arrows if arrows do not have magical AR themselves. This means that the magical AR of the bow is not being used unless you use Moonlight Arrows. The damage you're dealing is purely physical.

    Are you absolutely 100% sure about that? Because I am 100% sure that I have done more damage with lightning bows than regular bows, even though the regular bow had more physical AR than the lightning bow, while using regular arrows.
    My theory:
    The reason you see such a significant increase in damage is because the elemental damage has already gone through the defense, so extra damage of that element will no longer be affected by it that much. And fire/moonlight arrows and lightning bolts actually have a pretty high total AR.

    The longbow has a base damage of 90 at +15. Lightning is 165/180. Lightning weapons will always outperform +15 with base stats. I'm almost completely sure that no weapon does more base physical damage at +15 than a Lightning weapons physical damage at +5, with several weapons having more at +5.
    You're forgetting about scaling and added damage, a longbow at +15 will have a good 300 damage with scaling.


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