Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

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    Derpwraith
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    Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Derpwraith on Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:36 am

    Lets just cut to the chase, Artorias is dead and we don't know why, and there are no remnants of the Abyss anywhere except for the ruins of New Londo. And with time being distorted in Lordran, this leads to the belief that the Chosen Undead already travelled back in time to free Artorias, kill Kalameet and stop the spread of the Abyss by destroying Manus, but in an alternate universe where all of that happened much earlier.

    But I must say, I don't think the Chosen Undead 'stopped' the Abyss, but rather make it flee to New Londo (Bridge in the Valley of Drakes that connects Darkroot/Oolacile to New Londo). And this is where the Four Kings fall to dark and their knights were transformed to Darkwraiths. After every former knight of New Londo failed Kaathe (He may have fled along with along with the abyss after Manus' death because he may have played the role of tempting the citizens of Oolacile to awaken Manus), he then believed that the Chosen Undead destroyed Manus and moved the Abyss to a safer spot as a sign of his/her return as the Dark Lord. He then waited for him/her to destroy the Four Kings, which would make sense since the Dark Lord would be able to destroy them other than Gwyn or his army. Whoever destroyed the Four Kings other than them would be considered the Dark Lord by Kaathe.


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Dibsville on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:56 pm

    I believe it's all set up to play out in one simple story. We already knew that the abyss had taken over New Londo, even before the DLC had come out. We knew that the Three Sealers sealed the followers of the abyss away by flooding New Londo, putting it in ruin. Thus, all the souls that died now roam as ghosts. But then, we get the DLC. Now we learn how the abyss spread and we can see just how tainted it is. I mean, look at Manus, he is a human! Anyway, New Londo, (and now that I'm thinking of it, is New Londo possibly Oolacile Township?), has been flooded in the future due to the spread of the abyss, but you stop it before it spreads... or so you think. Remember, Manus is not the ACTUAL cause of the abyss, but in fact, a slave of it. Therefore, we know that even though Manus has been killed, the abyss will still spread. In the future, New Londo is sealed to stop the spread, and thus, the Four Kings who were once in charge are now sealed away. Unlocking the Seal releases the Four Kings, and the chosen undead must fight them in order to proceed. But you have to wonder. You can not join the Darkwraiths if you do the DLC first, so maybe this is because the spread was stopped and Kaathe never came to be?


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Acarnatia on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:20 pm

    This assumes that where we find Manus is the heart of the Abyss, which it very well may not be. For all we know, the Abyss may actually lie in the underground of the entire world, and this is just the most important part in terms of location.
    We don't 'know' what Manus is, only theorize. There's actually pretty few item descriptions and dialogues regarding him, and those that do aren't detailed.
    In saying that the Abyss is evil because of 'what it did to Manus,' note that Gough states "... that awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad."Considering what Humanity can apparently do, (look at the Oolacile citizens) it's possible Manus may have altered shape to some extent as/after he became enraged.
    Also, because of that, I wonder how 'bad' the Dark and Abyss were before this incident? Manus, the Dark and the Abyss may very well have been benign before this event and/or others like it.
    At least one 'toothy serpent' convinced the people of Oolacile to awake Manus, strongly hinting that at least one Primoridal Serpent existed before these events. The title 'primordial' actually insinuates that they are older than the 'primeval Lords' because the word primordial is linked to the idea of first, fundamental or elemental, whereas primeval is just early or ancient. Only one other thing in the game ever has the word primordial attached to it-the Primordial Crystal, a treasure of the Everlasting Dragons. (who existed before Fire and thus disparity) This suggests that the Primodial Serpents are at least as old as Fire, if not older.


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Dibsville on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:56 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:This assumes that where we find Manus is the heart of the Abyss, which it very well may not be. For all we know, the Abyss may actually lie in the underground of the entire world, and this is just the most important part in terms of location.
    We don't 'know' what Manus is, only theorize. There's actually pretty few item descriptions and dialogues regarding him, and those that do aren't detailed.
    In saying that the Abyss is evil because of 'what it did to Manus,' note that Gough states "... that awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad."Considering what Humanity can apparently do, (look at the Oolacile citizens) it's possible Manus may have altered shape to some extent as/after he became enraged.
    Also, because of that, I wonder how 'bad' the Dark and Abyss were before this incident? Manus, the Dark and the Abyss may very well have been benign before this event and/or others like it.
    At least one 'toothy serpent' convinced the people of Oolacile to awake Manus, strongly hinting that at least one Primoridal Serpent existed before these events. The title 'primordial' actually insinuates that they are older than the 'primeval Lords' because the word primordial is linked to the idea of first, fundamental or elemental, whereas primeval is just early or ancient. Only one other thing in the game ever has the word primordial attached to it-the Primordial Crystal, a treasure of the Everlasting Dragons. (who existed before Fire and thus disparity) This suggests that the Primodial Serpents are at least as old as Fire, if not older.
    As stated by the Mushroom Queen, Manus is a "Primeval Human". I think it was, in fact, Frampt who was the serpent. He may have seen what the abyss was causing, and that is why he sided with Gwyn.


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by ublug on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:04 pm

    The only creature that speaks the truth about Artorias is Alwina, all the other Artorias information we come across is based on his legend and is most likely spun out of proportion over time. The Abyss in new londo is also more or less at the exact location where you fight Manus. I'm also wondering why there's an entrance to the Abyss in new londo, I guess they probably worshipped Kaathe or another serpent there, or he might have acted like a guardian and a guide for their civilization. We also learn from the serpent rings that they are covetous and are a symbol of the undead.
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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Dibsville on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:15 pm

    ublug wrote:The only creature that speaks the truth about Artorias is Alwina, all the other Artorias information we come across is based on his legend and is most likely spun out of proportion over time. The Abyss in new londo is also more or less at the exact location where you fight Manus. I'm also wondering why there's an entrance to the Abyss in new londo, I guess they probably worshipped Kaathe or another serpent there, or he might have acted like a guardian and a guide for their civilization. We also learn from the serpent rings that they are covetous and are a symbol of the undead.
    I'm going out on a limb here and saying that the long fall and the area surrounding it is Oolacile Township.


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:41 pm

    Serpents? You guys are crazy. Take a look at either Caduceus shield (1 of which is found literally a stone's throw away from Frampt). Kaathe and Frampt are probably 2 sides of the same creature.


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:54 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:Serpents? You guys are crazy. Take a look at either Caduceus shield (1 of which is found literally a stone's throw away from Frampt). Kaathe and Frampt are probably 2 sides of the same creature.
    The shield has nothing to do with the creatures.


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:02 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    DE5PA1R wrote:Serpents? You guys are crazy. Take a look at either Caduceus shield (1 of which is found literally a stone's throw away from Frampt). Kaathe and Frampt are probably 2 sides of the same creature.
    The shield has nothing to do with the creature.

    Fixed it for you.

    Says who?
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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:08 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    DE5PA1R wrote:Serpents? You guys are crazy. Take a look at either Caduceus shield (1 of which is found literally a stone's throw away from Frampt). Kaathe and Frampt are probably 2 sides of the same creature.
    The shield has nothing to do with the creature.

    Fixed it for you.

    Says who?
    Because a caduceus is a real thing, not something that was implemented into the game just to make you think that Kaathe, Frampt, and all the other serpents are one creature.


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:12 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Because a caduceus is a real thing, not something that was implemented into the game just to make you think that Kaathe, Frampt, and all the other serpents are one creature.

    Of course a caduceus is a real thing. So what?

    How and why do you presume to know the designers' intent?
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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:14 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:Because a caduceus is a real thing, not something that was implemented into the game just to make you think that Kaathe, Frampt, and all the other serpents are one creature.

    Of course a caduceus is a real thing. So what?

    How and why do you presume to know the designers' intent?
    If you can find any item in the game that the serpents don't talk about or hint at in any way that describes that the serpents are joined as one, I'll believe you. By the way, they resent each other, if they were the same creature, why wouldn't they work together?


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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:20 pm

    Dibsville wrote:If you can find any item in the game that the serpents don't talk about or hint at in any way that describes that the serpents are joined as one, I'll believe you.

    1. Caduceus Round Shield.

    2. Caduceus Kite Shield.

    Congrats, now you believe me. That was easy.

    By the way, they resent each other

    No, they tell the character that they resent each other. This is a very different thing than knowing that they actually resent one another, especially considering that we know both are liars. They certainly don't seem to resent each other in the closing scene of the Dark Lord ending.

    if they were the same creature, why wouldn't they work together?

    Who says they aren't?

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    Re: Oolacile, The Abyss, and New Londo

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