Japanese people telling it how it is.

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    nsane32
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:46 am

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:I would say in response to what you say nsane: 'Riddle me this, if you are so selfless as you say then why have you not forsaken your home or allowed homeless people to live with you?' Though I suppose that would be taking your statement far too literally.
    I dont own my home at current and I give them Food and water as alot of hobos are fake hobos


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:59 am

    Fun is relative, and not even innate in some people sadly.

    I'd play in a fight club all the time with rules like:

    -No spears
    -No CoD, MoM, Child's
    -No Balder Side Sword
    -No Pursuers
    -No TCC
    -No etc

    Why? Because I personally think it would be fun thats why. I dont even know if these would be all or any of the rules to begin with. I just know what my idea of fun is.

    AND I dont need anyone's validation of what I think is fun, NOR do I think I have a right to define someone else's idea of fun. If I think you're a cheap **** who cares? I dont care what you think of me....

    You can lose and have fun. Like when I agree with my wife for one reason and one reason only.....who really wins? :idea:

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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:09 am

    I love how this has turned into a thread bashing out ridiculous responses begging for rep..

    No need to read any other posts:

    Fun is all that matters, winning is obsolete.

    Now I'm gonna go sort out my nacho craving


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Rynn on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:10 am

    I disagree with the mindset displayed in that video.

    You might (lol) notice that despite how overpowered I feel spears are, and how stupid backstabs feel, I don't ever tell people to stop doing it, I just get annoyed when they use them on me.

    If it's in the game, use it, who the *** cares unless you're at a tournament where it -is- banned, but... you must keep in mind the developers are not perfect, and so they will make mistakes, and things they will do will get soft-banned by players. If you've ever played a game in the actual competitive setup (head to a tournament, get paid, etc), you'll see that things get banned from leagues. There is weapons in competitive TF2 that are banned, heroes in LoL that are banned, etc etc...

    Hell, I was playing an MMO (Jade Dynasty) that flew the best players in America out to China for a tournament where they were given stock characters with max power gears on them, and even in a tournament run by the games developers, certain skills in the game were removed from the tournament version, and an entire class was missing. (interestingly enough the skills I consider most OP in that game).

    Use whatever you want in a game, but I can say in full confidence that sometimes, you might have won the battle, but you've not really won, for all you've done is proven you don't have much skill, nor any sense of the word fun. You take as much blame as the developers for that: The developers *** up by putting it in the game, and you chose to abuse it.


    It is the developers jobs to make sure things like chainstabbing, or, as he does at the end of that video (2:06), chaining grab attacks, isn't possible. It is the developers jobs to make sure things like TWoP are not utterly broken in implementation, it is the developers jobs to balance weapons appropriately (which for the most part they do correctly, but in certain places they fail in this game)... and the playerbase unofficially makes it their job to shun certain tactics and weapons: which then brings it to the attention of competive leagues, which actually OFTEN DO follow up by banning it from their leagues.

    We do not look towards Gankers and Chainstabbers as the best Dark Souls players, we look towards the duelists and streamers that demonstrate the ability to play without abusing game mechanics that should not have been. This isn't because our opinions are wrong, it's because as a majority rule: This is how most people feel, and as such the most "correct" opinion,


    Last edited by Rynn on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by XachAttack on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:15 am

    "I've never considered myself weak, if I did, it would be discourteous to all the players I've beaten" (cleaned up a bit)

    I'm definently gonna take those words to heart.

    Not trying to start a fight, but nsane, it doesn't sound like you respect yourself much. Just sayin'.


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:19 am

    Saturday-Saint wrote:

    I am hideously sick of this attitude. It's dishonest and insulting and like 96% of why I don't play Dark Souls frequently anymore.

    I like playing to win. I like squeezing every bit of optimization out of a game and pushing every boundary it has. I like exploring the system handed to me, and I like bending it to my advantage, and if I can, I like to break it. I like to watch as my opponents put it back together, as they learn how to overcome whatever obstacles I've created for them. I like when I'm forced to do the same with whatever they put in my way. And I enjoy none of that for the purpose of coming on here and bragging about how *** great I am at Dark Souls.

    Just so we're on the same page, my signature is a joke.

    SO do you invade low level players with fully upgraded gear, noticing that they are knew and deciding to use Tranquil Walk of Death on them since it will get you a win? When you see they are knew do you do a spellswap glitch to buff a demon spear with Sunlight Blade then kill them as quick as possible?

    These things are in the game, so by that mentality you should be doing that every fight.
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:27 am

    XachAttack wrote:"I've never considered myself weak, if I did, it would be discourteous to all the players I've beaten" (cleaned up a bit)

    I'm definently gonna take those words to heart.

    Not trying to start a fight, but nsane, it doesn't sound like you respect yourself much. Just sayin'.

    actually I have more self respect thats why I dont need to win if you absolutely have to win no matter what that means your trying to gain self notoriety


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:29 am

    See now Forum Pirate has a much better mentality about this in my eyes if I'm to drop a name. He doesn't care if he's losing or winning, all he does is try to gather information and increase his own level of skill and experience with each battle. He'll actively seek out a battle he knows he will lose at the chance he'll learn something from it to improve himself. He strikes me as genuinely being interested in self improvement.
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Rynn on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:34 am

    Kokujin wrote:"I've never considered myself weak, if I did, it would be discourteous to all the players I've beaten"
    Oh yes, That's going in my signature, he has some great philosophical points even if I think he's got a **** opinion.
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:52 am

    There is no point in trying to win a battle in the quickest or easiest way possible.The entire point of games is to have fun.Winning by douche-y mean isn't much fun for either player,winner or loser.A lot of people see certain cheap tactics as outright disrespectful,further reinforced by gloating hatemail afterwards.
    An in game example would be if I attuned nothing but wrath and dark bead and spammed like there is no tomorrow.I could get 500 wins in a row with no losses,would anyone actually think me to be a pro player?I highly doubt it.
    Being skilled at a game actually requires that you put a bit of effort into playing,give your opponent a proper chance to beat you.Abusing game mechanics for an easy win pretty much means you are being a douche to other people.
    And when I see that Japanese guy blabbing about how awesome he is for figuring out how to glitch wins,I can't help but think he likely has no life and doesn't treat others very well.Humility is very undervalued these days.


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:54 am

    you deserve a Medal


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:55 am

    Not that I agree with the Japanse Fighter Player's view, but I would say just spamming those attacks would probably not get you too many wins against actual duelists. If you are invading people who are looking for duels or hosting against them they'd probably deal with that tactic.

    Now if you were to spam those things against questers or perhaps invaders at lower levels going for easy kills you'd see a good deal of success.
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:02 pm

    Whether it would actually work is not the point.The point is having skill requires you to actually win by skillful means,not cheap or easy ones.


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:06 pm

    This actually brings up an old philosophy of mine,

    "Winning through the utter failure of your enemy is simply the act of not losing."

    It's not something I entirely agree with myself, since there is a point where taking an advantage is the right way to advance. Hell, the enemy will use your flaw against you. However if I was say in a wrestling match with a friend and he slipped and fell I'd probably not just jump on him. I'd feel like that was a total accident and I wouldn't want to win because he accidentally slipped.

    Similarly if I'm dueling someone and a lag spike causes them to have problems generally I'll just back off till the connection smooths or they realize it too. However I need to work on it more since I don't have a catch all phrase for it and it is far too situational of an idea.
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:07 pm

    KrazykevS10 wrote:Whether it would actually work is not the point.The point is having skill requires you to actually win by skillful means,not cheap or easy ones.

    He never mentioned skill in the video. He said that it is only who wins. I like to say that skill matters, but it's irrevelant if it's not enough to beat those with "no skill."


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:08 pm

    I also consider that a sign of a game that shouldn't be played competitively.
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:10 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I also consider that a sign of a game that shouldn't be played competitively.

    And that's when you need to know where to draw the line for what takes skill and what doesn't. It's often the case that if something "takes no skill" it's just effective enough to get someone aggravated.

    I'm glad to see you didn't die, by the way.


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:12 pm

    Apparently I had sleep paralysis and was hallucinating. But that's for another topic. silly

    It reminds me of of Super Smash Brother Brawl, I loved to play it competitively because it had a decently high skill cap.

    But the game was not designed to be played like that, it was player rules that allowed it since items made competitive play a total game of chance.

    Not to mention tripping, Nintendo why the tripping!
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:17 pm

    This is what I don't get in gaming.. The idea of wanting to be more skillful has a downside that seem to me make it a silly thing to seek to achieve.

    1. The better you are, the easier playing seems
    2. Hard worn victories or well fought losses are more fun than easier victories
    3. Greater skill means you're more likely to find things easy, and have less fun.

    Maybe that sounds like complete bull to some of you, but to me investing the effort into a game to become able to just destroy people without trying takes the fun out of it :|


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:18 pm

    I feel the same towards Dark Souls. A lot of advanced tactics and whatnot can be incorporated and skill can be shown in some players' eyes.

    In spite of that, the person in the video stated he doesn't care about it; he'll use whatever he can to win, and others' silly rules don't bother him.


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:20 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Kokujin wrote:"I've never considered myself weak, if I did, it would be discourteous to all the players I've beaten"
    Oh yes, That's going in my signature, he has some great philosophical points even if I think he's got a **** opinion.
    That was actually written by KSK. Kokujin was quoting what KSK had written. It's from some foreword he wrote for a Street Fighter strategy guide probably over a decade ago. Also as a random note, that throw chain at 2:06 is probably like the least scary thing you can do after knockdowns in Street Fighter 4. There are set-ups after a knockdown where to get out of them literally you have to tap block with 1/60th of a second timing or you get combo'd for 1/3rd of your health and get knocked back down. Also, in simplified terms, there's basically a 50% chance more-or-less random chance that your block just won't work even if you time it right and you get combo'd anyways. And this is 100% tournament legal.

    Tolvo wrote:if I was say in a wrestling match with a friend and he slipped and fell
    I'd probably not just jump on him. I'd feel like that was a total
    accident and I wouldn't want to win because he accidentally slipped.

    Similarly
    if I'm dueling someone and a lag spike causes them to have problems
    generally I'll just back off till the connection smooths or they realize
    it too.

    I think there's a disconnect in these examples. In one, your friend made a mistake. In another, the internet randomly **** itself. I'd punish your friend in the former. And probably backstab the guy a bunch in the latter example, because I think it would be funny... I used to have a bunch of .gif's of when I had U-Verse internet of me BS'ing people who were frozen solid from lag.


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:22 pm

    Well Serious I actually do like that people seek to get that good at the game.

    However, I feel they should then seek out people of similar advanced skill levels and play against those people.

    When I played SSBB competitively I only gave my all against other people at tourneys or those were at that skill level.

    If I was just fighting against friends I'd just try to be silly and have fun, or put crazy limits on myself that they might notice. Such as playing Olimar without Pikmin, or using Toon Link, the only character I was bad at. Somehow, since I played Link just fine.
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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:24 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:This is what I don't get in gaming.. The idea of wanting to be more skillful has a downside that seem to me make it a silly thing to seek to achieve.

    1. The better you are, the easier playing seems
    2. Hard worn victories or well fought losses are more fun than easier victories
    3. Greater skill means you're more likely to find things easy, and have less fun.

    Maybe that sounds like complete bull to some of you, but to me investing the effort into a game to become able to just destroy people without trying takes the fun out of it :|

    Some people like seeing that final product of destroying everyone. I will never get to that point, but I know if I got close there'd be many people just as good as me. That's when you find those people and repeat the process.


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:26 pm

    I agree tolvo that you would do that.. but souls isn't quite as popular a game, and players of a really high skill level are few and far between (I don't claim to be good, I'm incredibly mediocre at best), so really if you're that good at this game.. I feel it could get quite lonely and boring, almost to the point of not wanting to play the game any longer.

    I can see how fighting with dumb stuff would be fun in it's place, but that's a bit of a novelty.. I'd rather be in genuine mediocrity just so i can have the best of both worlds really..

    Its a strange philosophy i have there silly


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    Re: Japanese people telling it how it is.

    Post by Virulas on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:29 pm

    some people have their entire lives revolving around winning, some have their lives revolving around having fun, wether you win or lose. Sure i like winning, who doesnt, but i can have just as much fun losing as i can winning. At the end of that day, winning or losing doesnt matter to me, what matters to me is having FUN

    my simple 2 cents


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