Effective PvP

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    Myztyrio
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    Effective PvP

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:50 am

    What's the best way to learn advanced PvP?

    Playing the same opponent repeatedly vs. invading/being invaded by randoms

    Using one weapon or class extensively vs. testing out multiple weapons

    Focusing on one strategy/tactic vs. constant experimentation


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:56 am

    Go to the forest and be invaded here you can learn 1v1 1v2 2v2 sneak attack using your envirement to your advantage how to come up with a set of weapons capable of helping you in many situations and if your real unlucky how to kill modders. You might come across one whod be willing to spar you a few rounds. Id also take a friend to have on standbye you dont have to jump people just even it up if you get two dark spirits or come close to dying from 1


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by ChillerHR on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:22 am

    I think it's essential to master one approach and then move to another...
    I never did that, always experimenting builds, weapons, classes and magic...never mastering anything compared to some masters of something that I come across...

    That's why I suck at PvP IMO...or maybe I just don't have it in me...lol
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    I'm master of spamming 2H R1's and Dark Bead!
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    There's this one thing though...you have to learn to use something to know how to counter it, weapon moveset, magic range and speed, dead angles and plunge jump attacks, not to mention backstabing variety and parry options...

    Basically long hours of joy, learning and teaching others...
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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:54 am

    Myztyrio wrote:What's the best way to learn advanced PvP?
    Find good PvP'ers and play against them a lot. Somebody kick your *** really hard? Send them a message, ask if they'd mind dueling you in a series. Maybe add them on your friends list. Hear about some totally kick-*** PvP'er who's the best pro MLG **** around? Send him a message. Maybe they're actually crap, but it's always worth investigating. And if somebody says no, or doesn't respond, at least you asked.

    Myztyrio wrote:Playing the same opponent repeatedly vs. invading/being invaded by randoms
    I find playing against the same person a lot is more helpful for learning. But you need to fight people above your level to really improve. Fighting random invaders is good if you want to practice executing some kind of particular tactic. E.G. if you want to practice instant-blocking, best to do that vs. **** players who are non-threatening to you.

    Myztyrio wrote:Using one weapon or class extensively vs. testing out multiple weapons
    100% preference. I think you should use every weapon class at least a little because having some insight into how something is used will help you to play against it, but beyond that it's up to you. In Dark Souls I play like Zweihander, Greatbows, and Uchigatanas and almost nothing else. In Demon's Souls, I was a little bit better with Dragon Bone Smasher and 2H Katana, but spent a lot of time using different weapons and could play everything proficiently. I don't feel at all like one method was better than the other.

    Myztyrio wrote:Focusing on one strategy/tactic vs. constant experimentation
    Definitely you want to experiment a lot, but that doesn't mean you can't focus on one strategy. Within a single strategy, or small set of strategies, you can do a lot of experimentation.

    I think the most important thing about getting better at PvP though is finding good opponents. Like if I had to choose one thing that will make you a better player, it's that. There are other things that will make you good. Being critical about what caused you to lose, not making excuses for yourself, being experimental in solving problems, etc., but none of those help if you're fighting crappy players all the time. Fighting against **** might make you good at fighting against ****, but it won't help you when a good player comes knocking.

    Also, people like to say that every time you lose, it's a lesson or whatever. But it's only a lesson if you choose to make it one. If you lose and you don't know what the problem is, or you aren't working to solve that problem, then you're not learning.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:12 am

    Follow Saturday-Saint's advice.

    And are you planning on getting better at dueling/fighting with rules or without any rules. Because if you want to get better under some restrictions you should not practice in the forest. It will destroy your dueling abilities. If you're going to randomly invade somewhere, go to designated dueling areas. (Once again, only if you want to get better while following restrictions)

    The best thing you can do is to set up some duels with someone, or multiple people better than you.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:30 am

    You learn to fight in the forest and kill 1v2 you can kill just about anyone but like x said it wouldnt be won through deuling and your style would be more barbarian


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:32 am

    the first step is to find a weapon you like and master it


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:38 am

    As much as I hate the gods and there ilk nsane couldnt be more right if you can master a weapon your a force to be reconned with master more than one and youll be ready for any situation


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:11 pm

    I'd suggest deciding which form of PvP you want to focus on, then just constantly do it. Generally speaking you will advance faster if you find one set to focus on, since spreading yourself too thin may cause you to be a sort of jack of all trades that doesn't excel in anything specific.
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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Juutas on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:42 pm

    My best advice: Don't be afraid of losing.
    Everyone loses at times and it is in the core of Dark Souls. Try to learn about your mistakes and the rest comes naturally after playing and playing and playing and some more playing.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:15 pm

    My best weapon is the Estoc, mostly because it has range, speed, and damage on normal attacks, while also having high crit damage. It also has a great running attack. I think all I can do for now is really practice with the Estoc against randoms for a while. But is there a particular place that's better to duel people? Are there certain techniques I should focus on right now? I'm currently SL120, hosting at burg, if anyone wants to join me.
    On a side note: 25 poise, MoM vs. 31 poise, no MoM?


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:05 pm

    Myztyrio wrote:My best weapon is the Estoc, mostly because it has range, speed, and damage on normal attacks, while also having high crit damage. It also has a great running attack. I think all I can do for now is really practice with the Estoc against randoms for a while. But is there a particular place that's better to duel people? Are there certain techniques I should focus on right now? I'm currently SL120, hosting at burg, if anyone wants to join me.
    On a side note: 25 poise, MoM vs. 31 poise, no MoM?
    Ideally 32 poise with MoM, which should be very manageable with Estoc at SL 120 unless you're using a Greatshield or something. But if those are the only two choices, I'd take 31 poise without MoM. Burg is fine, so is Butterfly Forest, though I think less active than Burg.

    Also IMO best way to use Estoc is this. Let us say you are fighting against BADGUY:

    You think BADGUY is going to backstab you? Counterstab.
    You think BADGUY is going to dead angle you? Poisestab.
    You think BADGUY is going to do anything else? Shieldpoke.
    R1's and R2's are for fancy-pants roll punishing.

    Compare this to the best Estoc strategy in Demon's Souls:

    You think BADGUY is going to backstab you? Shieldpoke.
    You think BADGUY is going to dead angle you? Shieldpoke.
    You think BADGUY is going to do anything else? Shieldpoke.
    R1's and R2's are for losing.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:13 pm

    Okay well in order to keep my crest shield + bow I can only do 31 poise no MoM unless I go low defense with a rly ugly setup. This is pyro/dex, btw. Bellowing dragoncrest vs. hornet?


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:26 pm

    I'd probably go with Hornet, or even Leo maybe. Shieldpokes I think gets counterhit bonus. But probably the best way to decide: play a handful of matches. If you notice yourself going for lots of BS's, put on Hornet. If you notice yourself hitting lots of Pyromancies, put on Bellowing Dragoncrest.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:28 pm

    Saturday-Saint wrote:I'd probably go with Hornet, or even Leo maybe. Shieldpokes I think gets counterhit bonus. But probably the best way to decide: play a handful of matches. If you notice yourself going for lots of BS's, put on Hornet. If you notice yourself hitting lots of Pyromancies, put on Bellowing Dragoncrest.

    Most of my damage comes from the pyros/crits. It's hard to choose just one. I, myself, don't like turtling too much


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:37 pm

    Well probably Hornet Ring unless you're getting more damage from pyros than from Hornet. I mean just math it out. Dragon Ring gives you +20-something% pyro damage. Hornet gives +30% crit damage. So if your average match has you doing 700 damage in BS and 600 damage in pyromancy, take Hornet. If your average match has you doing 700 damage in BS and 1000 damage in pyromancy, take Dragon ring.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:43 pm

    Yeah I'm doing hornet, I'm just trying to experiment with some less risky ways of parrying. The only successful one I've found thus far is block attack one, parry two. It has to really be done against an idiot /:


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:53 pm

    What's your PSN? I wouldn't mind doing some duels some time.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Dibsville on Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:57 pm

    Best way to learn is to go to the Forest. When I first started, I was Hornet Ring Chaos Bandit's Knife +5 backstab fisher. Then I learned that Rapier did more damage, which was the start of my learning career. From there I reverted to Divine and Enchanted weaponry. So on to stunlocking weapons, then from elemental paths to +15 with buffs. Currently, I roll with a Darksword +15 with no buffs on most of my builds, usually Ring of FaP and Havel's Ring, although I'll switch out Havel's with Cloranthy every once and awhile.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Paragon on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:12 pm

    Going back to the topic of how to become more effective at PvP, I took a number of different approaches towards improving.

    My very first was when I was summoned to what I thought would be a battle against sif but instead He summoned me to cover his back in case he got ganked by forest hunters. The guy was in full havel cosplay and was very good at pvp. In fact when he summoned me and explained that he was PvPing I had no idea what pvp was. We PvP'd in the forest for hours and eventually we started a voice chat. He was a twelve year old kid and apparently a member of what I hear is called the Honor Brigade. He stuck to his code of ethics like a rabid dog and inspired me to do the same. Eventually we became friends and I continued to PvP with him. In our first duel together he completely walloped me.

    After this I decided to make a second character and have her be a member of the forest covenant. It was after becoming a Forest hunter that I realized how hard they have it. Every single invasion I had as a forest hunter was against gankers. At first I ran away and waited for backup, I used ring of fog and chameleon like mad. I died a lot but i learned even more. In the end I owe what I learned to those gankers.

    Step three came when I moved to the burg and encountered another guy cosplaying as havel who consistently pounded the crap out of me. At first I complained that he was only winning because of lagstabs but in his replies he was very genuine in trying to give me a fighting chance. When next we fought he explained that it was not lagstabs but in fact something called a counter backstab. I was amazed. I had never heard of such a thing. For the next two hours he taught me the counter back stab, the anti-parry BS, and a number of other tricks of the trade. He was my first legitimate PvP coach and the one I credit most of my current success to.

    Step four to PvP improvement actually came from watching The Brigade on youtube (I think Yall know who I mean) I watched his videos on how to parry specific weapons. I came to learn which attacks can and cannot be parried and how to recognize then avoid them. Honestly I cannot stand the guy sometimes because he rants constantly and comes across as a prick. Nevertheless he knows his Dark Souls and I can't help but respect him for that.

    Joining the forum actually didn't help a WHOLE lot in improving my PvP but it DID improve my understanding of other peoples gaming philosophies. This has helped me to enjoy Dark Souls by not getting worked up over stuff that is in reality unimportant. I see now that when people do something "cheap" they aren't evil because of it, they are just trying to enjoy their game same as me. And if ruining the enjoyment of other people is part of their enjoyment then counter ruining their enjoyment is part of mine (hope that makes sense). In a sense, the forum opened my mind more than it improved my skill, but it is no less important for that.

    I find it kind of funny that all the people who have taught me directly have been cosplaying as havel. (in total 4 people). Weird huh?


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Dibsville on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:42 pm

    luvz2fight wrote:Going back to the topic of how to become more effective at PvP, I took a number of different approaches towards improving.

    My very first was when I was summoned to what I thought would be a battle against sif but instead He summoned me to cover his back in case he got ganked by forest hunters. The guy was in full havel cosplay and was very good at pvp. In fact when he summoned me and explained that he was PvPing I had no idea what pvp was. We PvP'd in the forest for hours and eventually we started a voice chat. He was a twelve year old kid and apparently a member of what I hear is called the Honor Brigade. He stuck to his code of ethics like a rabid dog and inspired me to do the same. Eventually we became friends and I continued to PvP with him. In our first duel together he completely walloped me.

    After this I decided to make a second character and have her be a member of the forest covenant. It was after becoming a Forest hunter that I realized how hard they have it. Every single invasion I had as a forest hunter was against gankers. At first I ran away and waited for backup, I used ring of fog and chameleon like mad. I died a lot but i learned even more. In the end I owe what I learned to those gankers.

    Step three came when I moved to the burg and encountered another guy cosplaying as havel who consistently pounded the crap out of me. At first I complained that he was only winning because of lagstabs but in his replies he was very genuine in trying to give me a fighting chance. When next we fought he explained that it was not lagstabs but in fact something called a counter backstab. I was amazed. I had never heard of such a thing. For the next two hours he taught me the counter back stab, the anti-parry BS, and a number of other tricks of the trade. He was my first legitimate PvP coach and the one I credit most of my current success to.

    Step four to PvP improvement actually came from watching The Brigade on youtube (I think Yall know who I mean) I watched his videos on how to parry specific weapons. I came to learn which attacks can and cannot be parried and how to recognize then avoid them. Honestly I cannot stand the guy sometimes because he rants constantly and comes across as a prick. Nevertheless he knows his Dark Souls and I can't help but respect him for that.

    Joining the forum actually didn't help a WHOLE lot in improving my PvP but it DID improve my understanding of other peoples gaming philosophies. This has helped me to enjoy Dark Souls by not getting worked up over stuff that is in reality unimportant. I see now that when people do something "cheap" they aren't evil because of it, they are just trying to enjoy their game same as me. And if ruining the enjoyment of other people is part of their enjoyment then counter ruining their enjoyment is part of mine (hope that makes sense). In a sense, the forum opened my mind more than it improved my skill, but it is no less important for that.

    I find it kind of funny that all the people who have taught me directly have been cosplaying as havel. (in total 4 people). Weird huh?
    This. I learned everything from people in the Forest, Burg, and Kiln. The first time I was summoned to "gank", I didn't have a clue what it was, as I had never been in the covenant. After a few fights the guy who had summoned me asked why I wasn't ganking with him, and I replied with "What's that?" and was immediately BC'd out. Shortly after that, I found the covenant and decided to join in. Of course, I quickly learned what ganking was. So I moved on. When I got to Kiln for the first time, I noticed I couldn't walk 3 steps with out getting invaded. Some invaders were obviously bad, but a few asked why I was doing what I was doing. They taught me the basics of PvP. Stuff like this continued until I now play how I do today. jblackmel is my favourite DS player. :roll:


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by robsthedon on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:32 am

    The best way to become effective is to fight players better than you, chose a build you like and stick with it and an Estoc is a good weapon. Then go to a place that attracts the best players, i.e the burg/moonpit/township. Going to the Forrest just makes you a good bs'er.


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by bob90 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:15 am

    Myztyrio wrote:What's the best way to learn advanced PvP?

    Playing the same opponent repeatedly vs. invading/being invaded by randoms

    Using one weapon or class extensively vs. testing out multiple weapons

    Focusing on one strategy/tactic vs. constant experimentation
    .

    Uhm dont listen to those that tell u what to do.

    cuz you know it already.

    all you have to do is. all of them. no "vs" thing. do all of them.

    or just beat me 3x. then you are more then good. cheers




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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Myztyrio on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:05 am

    [quote="Saturday-Saint"]What's your PSN? I wouldn't mind doing some duels some time.[/quote

    My PSN is also Myztyrio, feel free to add me and shoot me a message


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    Re: Effective PvP

    Post by Emergence on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:13 am

    Oy, would the individual responsible for abusing the neg rep on Myz, do the following:

    1. Stop

    Spare me the arduous hassle of investigation and looking into the forum's back end to find out who specifically it is, and spare yourself the embarrassment of being found out, because once I do, I will make it very public.


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