Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

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    Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Micha369 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:19 am

    Hello folks,

    everybody tells me in the forum that the BSS is a very good weapon because its A modifier in dex, especially when on +15. But +15 is not easy to get since I have no titanite slabs.

    I have the feeling that my silver knight straight sword+5 is much better (fewer hits to get an enemy down) than my lightning BSS+4. Now I'm wondering that this A-Modifier for a BSS+15 will bring in future. At the moment I have Dex at 40 and strength at 26. There must be a point when the BSS becomes better then the SKSS. If it really is worthwhile I could let rework my lightning BSS+4 to a BSS+15.
    What I'm interested in is the amount of power coming from the modifiers.
    BSS +15 has 200 and E (strength) and A (Dex)
    Lightnign BSS+4 has 188 + 188 = 376
    SKSS+5 has 262 and E (strength) and C (Dex)

    At my level of dex(40) and strength(26) the SKSS is clearly better than the Lightning BSS+4.
    How will it look at a later level (maybe str 35 and dex 60)?
    I'm thinking of this because I want to go to the NG+ soon.
    Only problem is to find a titanite slab. I'm pretty through the game except The Great Hollow, Ash Lake and Kiln Of The First Flame.
    Do those Darkwraith Knights in lower New Londo area really drop a titanite slab once? I alreaedy have been killing quite a number.

    thanks for your comments


    Last edited by Micha369 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Naxek on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:23 am

    The Darkwraiths have a rare chance of dropping it, but with covetous gold serpent ring and 10 humanity it should make it easier. I got one while farming for my Dark Hand, I actually got it before the Dark hand itself. >.>


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:44 am

    Dark wraith slab drop is really down to luck. I've farmed there for ages got none(had 99 chunks at one stage), messed up got killed dropped my 10 humanity(actually had 99 at the time), on the way back i put on the ring of sacrifice just in case and the first dude i killed dropped a slab and i'd only base item discovery.

    As for the BSS, get it to +15, it willl outstrip the lightning+4 plus it can buffed. Where the BSS comes into it's own is the R2, its very quick to exceute has decent range plus good tracking and does pretty good damage. The R2 also works with the leo ring.

    As for a slab give new londo a go you never know you're luck. If you've done most of the siggmeyer stuff, you might get a slab in the ash lake. i take it you got the one from the stray demon and the one in the chest in the dlc by kalameet?


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Micha369 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:03 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote: and the first dude i killed dropped a slab and i'd only base item discovery.
    Sorry but what do you mean with "base item discovery"

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    As for the BSS, get it to +15, it willl outstrip the lightning+4 plus it can buffed. Where
    the BSS comes into it's own is the R2, its very quick to exceute has decent range plus good tracking and does pretty good damage. The R2 also works with the leo ring.
    I have RB and RT at my xbox. Is "R2" the same as RT for xbox?

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    If you've done most of the siggmeyer stuff, you might get a slab in the ash lake.
    I never really know what to do for this siggmeyer. I alway talk to him and then I do this stuff he has a problem with anyway.

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    i take it you got the one from the stray demon and the one in the chest in the dlc by kalameet?
    Stray Demon is history and dlc kalameet is unfamiliar to me. How do I get to the dlc kalameet?
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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:09 am

    At 40 DEX and 26STR,the BSS beats the SKS by 1 point of damage,it really comes down to which moveset you prefer.
    And R1 R2 is referring to a Playstation controller,R1=RB and R2=RT.
    If you have the DLC,Kalameet is down a path near the arena in the Royal Woods.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:14 am

    You're PC right? So you should have the DLC, have you fought artorias yet? Kalamet is a dragon in the DLC. If not you're missing a big part of the game, look up accessing dlc on the tube. You don't need to fight kalameet to get the slab, its just in his area.

    As for item discovery, check your stats, 3rd tab on the menu, one of the stats is item discovery(should be around where posin\curse resist stats are), this stat increases the chance of an enemy dropping an item. base is 100, the gold serpent ring adds 200 to it and humanity boosts it too(caps at 10) to add another 110 so max is 410.

    Yes R2 is RT, use a box controller myself but been using ps controllers for a long time.

    As for siegmeyer, if you bumped into his daughter in dukes, he should be in ash lake.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Micha369 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:22 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:You're PC right? So you should have the DLC, have you fought artorias yet? Kalamet is a dragon in the DLC. If not you're missing a big part of the game, look up accessing dlc on the tube. You don't need to fight kalameet to get the slab, its just in his area.
    I have the PC version Dark Souls prepaire to die. That means that I can go somehow to the AotA-Areas, doesn't it?

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    As for item discovery, check your stats, 3rd tab on the menu, one of the stats is item discovery(should be around where posin\curse resist stats are), this stat increases the chance of an enemy dropping an item. base is 100, the gold serpent ring adds 200 to it and humanity boosts it too(caps at 10) to add another 110 so max is 410.

    Oh this was meant! That I know already. Thanks anyway.

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    As for siegmeyer, if you bumped into his daughter in dukes, he should be in ash lake.
    I'm not quite sure about this. In my first playthrough I definitely killed the golden golem in the garden of the archive! But I missed this golden golem in my second playthrough! Actually, I was wondering where it is! I helped him in Sens Fortress, Anor Londo and I gave Siegmeyer the 3 purple moss clumb. Maybe I forgot something!?
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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:24 am

    He's in lost izalith as well, its the final part of his quest before meeting in *** lake.

    yes you can go to the AOTA sections.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Juutas on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:31 am

    I just say this:
    When it comes to PvP, BSS is ALWAYS better option than SKSS.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Micha369 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:47 am

    Juutas wrote:I just say this:
    When it comes to PvP, BSS is ALWAYS better option than SKSS.
    Because it is quicker, has less weight.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Juutas on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:25 pm

    Micha369 wrote:
    Juutas wrote:I just say this:
    When it comes to PvP, BSS is ALWAYS better option than SKSS.
    Because it is quicker, has less weight.
    Quicker, has more range, more useful R2 and is lighter.
    I prefer SKSS myself just because of the looks though, but when it comes down to which is better weapon = BSS.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Acarnatia on Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:15 pm

    The SKSS has greatsword stunlocking and something like a point less damage at 40 dex than a +15 BSS. I often switch between the two and a SKS. The SKSS takes a little more intelligence and planning to use well, though, whereas the BSS is more about skill.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Juutas on Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:34 am

    Acarnatia wrote:The SKSS has greatsword stunlocking
    This is not true. I tested it myself and it doesn't break 53 poise and definitely doesn't break 56 poise with running attack.
    The poise break could be little higher than normal straight swords but a great sword poise break? no.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Maplepop on Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:00 am

    I love the SKSS... It's R2's are sweet, combo well and damn it looks cool too.

    I kinda wish they had made a Silver Knight Greatsword with a similar moveset... I think that would of been a pretty formidable weapon.

    But yeah, as Juutas says - BSS is generally a better PVP option...It's R2's are ferocious. But every man and their dog seems to use that weapon these days, so give the SKSS a go... It's still a great PVP weapon, and it's criminally underused IMO


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:29 am

    The BSS also is to get earlier in the game. I was really pleased with BSS but when I got my first SKSS I was amazed about it's move set! It gave me the feeling of a really strong weapon. I loved it! Later, though,  I found out that a good or even better alternative to the SKSS is the Claymore that you can have very early in the game. But when I moved to pvp I chosed it more and more rarely because BSS is much superior.

    At the moment DkS has a comeback and I just started a new toon after half a year playing Demon's Souls. My toon still is pretty low and I wander around with the Claymore. Claymore is in early game a really strong weapon that isn't too slow but requires some timing to use its full potential. A fully upgraded lightning Clay+5 induces 514 dmg (257+257) and the weight is the same as SKSS (6kg). This amount of dmg you cannot reach even with both 99 on str. and dex. And imo it has one of the best move sets.
    But I also look forward to getting the BSS and the SKSS too.

    At the moment I haven't rung the 2nd bell yet. I have the feeling that the game prevents me from getting BSS at the moment. I have farmed the Balder Knights in and around the church but all what it drops is Balder ****, sorry, sheet metal armor.
    Does one really have to ring the 2nd bell before DkS allow the Balder Knights to drop this weapon?


    Last edited by Micha369 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:35 am

    Micha369 wrote:
    Does one really have to ring the 2nd bell before DkS allow the Balder Knights to drop this weapon?
    Nope, again it's really just down to luck. I got 3 in my first hour of a new build once when farming for souls and ore for upgrades. And then on other games i've spent hours trying to get a drop when farming specifically for the BSS. Not too pushed now anymore, i just love the claymore too much.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:43 am

    So, I only have to not want to have the BSS but only the shards. Then according to Murphys Law I should get it very quickly but no shards, i guess.
    This is the case a lot of times. I can remember farming for the sword for hours and after I finally got it from the BK in Sen's it came a few times consecutive also in Undead Parish. Also with other items. lol


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by xenon_nobelium on Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:04 am

    i also got told the SKSS doesn't have greatswords stunlocking but last time i tested it its 2hR2 broke 52poise. maybe we were sloppy and my dummys poise hadn't refilled completely yet =( someone willing to do a fresh test and get the exact number?
    @micha: hallo erstmal^^ ich schreib lieber auf english weiter bevor alle ausrasten. something you didn't realize is that you usually don't forge elemental (excluding int and fth scaling) weapons unless you must (as in you have no scaling stat). the reasoning behind this is that although on paper the added elemental and physical dmg values look higher they score pityful dmg when compared to a pure physical weapon witch it's scaling stat maxed (maxed means 40, not 99 like you are imlying). the logic goes as follows: 250+250 does not add up to 500dmg that is better than 400 dmg in a single category, you must compare the highest single values (250 vs. 400) and get much closer to the end result.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:41 am

    Hello xenon

    what do you mean with "you usually don't forge elemental weapons"?
    I know that elemental weapons don't scale and I cannot buff them either.

    As long as I'm low on stats lightning is better than regular.
    And 257 phys. dmg + 257 lightning dmg is imo much better than only 400 physical dmg. It all depends on the resistence of the enemy, of course.

    EDIT: 40 in stats is not max., but after 50 not much is added on any further levelling, you are right. But the 99 doesn't come from me, though. It is written down in the DkS Wiki on this site, search for SKSS. There you'll find the dmg 405 or s.th. at 99 dex and 99 str. But anyway! Doesn't really matter.

    EDIT: in the wiki it reads:
    "With 99 Strength and Dexterity, the attack rating of a +5 weapon will be 420."


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by xenon_nobelium on Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:17 am

    to state it blatantly: a elemental weapon (not talking about fth/int) is always outperformed by its +15 counterpart (with max. scaling stats) by a HUGE margin. i'd say there is no reason to ever forge a fire/lightning weapon with weapons like gravelord-, queelags-, obsidian- sword available. i know there are few exceptions that don't fit into this general rule (avelyn, zweihänder, gargoyles halberd, hi-crit weaponry) that are viable with base requirements and elemental path. as a rule of thumb if one of your dmg categories on a split weapon is as high as ~300 you can make that weapon work, below that the results will be lacklustre at best.
    Micha369 wrote:
    And 257 phys. dmg + 257 lightning dmg is imo much better than only 400 physical dmg. It all depends on the resistence of the enemy, of course.
    here is where you're dead wrong and your initial confusion comes from, just trust me on that


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:32 pm

    I think only the r2s, or perhaps even only the two-handed r2s of the SKSS actually have a higher poise-break value than usual for a straight sword.


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by xenon_nobelium on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:05 pm

    xenon_nobelium wrote:i also got told the SKSS doesn't have greatswords stunlocking but last time i tested it its 2hR2 broke 52poise. maybe we were sloppy and my dummys poise hadn't refilled completely yet =( someone willing to do a fresh test and get the exact number?
    ok today i tested it again, the 2hR2 breaks exactly 39poise. maybe this got patched it's been a while since the first test...


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    Re: Balder side sword vs. silver knight straight sword

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:43 pm

    xenon_nobelium wrote:to state it blatantly: a elemental weapon (not talking about fth/int) is always outperformed by its +15 counterpart (with max. scaling stats) by a HUGE margin. i'd say there is no reason to ever forge a fire/lightning weapon with weapons like gravelord-, queelags-, obsidian- sword available. i know there are few exceptions that don't fit into this general rule (avelyn, zweihänder, gargoyles halberd, hi-crit weaponry) that are viable with base requirements and elemental path. as a rule of thumb if one of your dmg categories on a split weapon is as high as ~300 you can make that weapon work, below that the results will be lacklustre at best.
    Micha369 wrote:
    And 257 phys. dmg + 257 lightning dmg is imo much better than only 400 physical dmg. It all depends on the resistence of the enemy, of course.
    here is where you're dead wrong and your initial confusion comes from, just trust me on that
    Chip damage, is wonderful in certain situations. And not all weapons matter of damage, but also moveset, length, and personal preference. 

    And damage is quite amazing. Against an enemy with 100 physical defense and 100 fire defense, A Chaos Murakumo will end up doing 444 damage, while the Gravelord Sword, will only do 368 damage. And a Chaos Man-Serpent Greatsword will do 428 damage while the Obsidean Greatsword will only do 405 damage.  This is actual damage. And that's with equal defense, but considering how most enemies tend to have lower elemental defenses of at least one type, then physical defense, Elemental weapons are a good choice. 
    Although you are right about the furysword being better, although you do want to use that at 10 humanity.


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