Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Frank_White on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:06 pm

    The Furtive Pygmy is already in Dark Souls (in Oolacile).
    I'd most like to see Arstor the Earl of Carim. If he is in, he's probably the final boss.
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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Djem on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:09 pm

    ^ Is there any confirmation that Manus is the Pygmy, or just speculations?
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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by hey its andres on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:35 pm

    It's just speculation, but there's a school of people that are dead set on believing that it's him. Honestly, I believe Manus was just a descendant but whatevs Shrug


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by samster628 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:46 pm

    Frank_White wrote:The Furtive Pygmy is already in Dark Souls (in Oolacile).
    I'd most like to see Arstor the Earl of Carim. If he is in, he's probably the final boss.
    I rekon DS2 is in Carim 'cos that's where the gods are said to have gone and that makes it interesting. That or an entirely new land.

    Also it is pretty much confirmed that manus is the pigmy short of from making an official statement (and they might even have done that). The evidence is in a combination of the humanity, manus soul and manus catalyst descriptions. If you dont reilise this then you are a fool. This excludes those who lack the DLC.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Naxek on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:42 pm

    samster628 wrote:
    Frank_White wrote:The Furtive Pygmy is already in Dark Souls (in Oolacile).
    I'd most like to see Arstor the Earl of Carim. If he is in, he's probably the final boss.
    I rekon DS2 is in Carim 'cos that's where the gods are said to have gone and that makes it interesting. That or an entirely new land.

    Also it is pretty much confirmed that manus is the pigmy short of from making an official statement (and they might even have done that). The evidence is in a combination of the humanity, manus soul and manus catalyst descriptions. If you dont reilise this then you are a fool. This excludes those who lack the DLC.

    I would rather say you're a fool, not to mention rude about it, FOR being so sure.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by gmwdim on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:52 pm

    Soul of Manus, Father of the Abyss. This extraordinary soul is a viscous, lukewarm lump of gentle humanity. Ancient Manus was clearly once human. But he became the Father of the Abyss after his humanity went wild, eternally seeking his precious broken pendant.
    A sorcery catalyst born from the soul of Manus, father of the Abyss. A rough, old wooden catalyst large enough to be used as a strike weapon. Similar to the Tin crystallization catalyst, it boosts the strength of sorceries, but limits the number of castings.

    I don't see how either of those proves that Manus is the Pygmy. There's no mention of the Pygmy in either description, or of the Dark Soul that the Pygmy obtained. And we don't really know anything about the Pygmy other than that he discovered the Dark Soul and is the ancestor of the player character and of the undead. Could you please explain for us "fools"?

    And even if Manus is the Pygmy, I still think it would be cool to see what he was like in his "human" or "transitional" form.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Frank_White on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:01 pm

    samster628 wrote:
    Frank_White wrote:The Furtive Pygmy is already in Dark Souls (in Oolacile).
    I'd most like to see Arstor the Earl of Carim. If he is in, he's probably the final boss.
    I rekon DS2 is in Carim 'cos that's where the gods are said to have gone and that makes it interesting. That or an entirely new land.

    Also it is pretty much confirmed that manus is the pigmy short of from making an official statement (and they might even have done that). The evidence is in a combination of the humanity, manus soul and manus catalyst descriptions. If you dont reilise this then you are a fool. This excludes those who lack the DLC.

    Agreed. It is quite obvious, the amount of hints towards Manus being the Furtive Pygmy is vast. They wouldn't intentionally put in all that stuff if he wasn't the Pygmy...
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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by gmwdim on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:04 pm

    Would you care to post some examples from the "vast amount of hints"? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never got that impression and would like to know why others do.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Frank_White on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:04 pm

    gmwdim wrote:
    Soul of Manus, Father of the Abyss. This extraordinary soul is a viscous, lukewarm lump of gentle humanity. Ancient Manus was clearly once human. But he became the Father of the Abyss after his humanity went wild, eternally seeking his precious broken pendant.
    A sorcery catalyst born from the soul of Manus, father of the Abyss. A rough, old wooden catalyst large enough to be used as a strike weapon. Similar to the Tin crystallization catalyst, it boosts the strength of sorceries, but limits the number of castings.

    I don't see how either of those proves that Manus is the Pygmy. There's no mention of the Pygmy in either description, or of the Dark Soul that the Pygmy obtained. And we don't really know anything about the Pygmy other than that he discovered the Dark Soul and is the ancestor of the player character and of the undead. Could you please explain for us "fools"?

    And even if Manus is the Pygmy, I still think it would be cool to see what he was like in his "human" or "transitional" form.

    I think the biggest hint is when the mushroom woman refers to Manus as "that horrible primeval human". Primeval refers to something ancient, something that was there in the beginning...
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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Frank_White on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:10 pm

    Also I think when the Pygmy finds the Dark Soul in the opening sequence, that too is a hint about him being Manus. It hasn't been explained what the Dark Soul does exactly, but the name sounds like that kind of soul gives you the ability to create something like The Abyss. (Dark Soul / Abyss is eternally spreading darkness).
    It would also explain how Manus, once a human has turned into an ogre-like monster. It was the most powerful Lord Soul of them all and had sinister qualities.
    In addition, the Furtive Pygmy is the only human we've seen or even know about who has been in Lordran in the very beginning. And so has Manus, since he is a "primeval human".
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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Slarg232 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:04 pm

    Only two characters I want to see are Lloyd (or at least have him take a bigger role in this one) and Eidos.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Naxek on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:43 pm

    We know what the Dark Soul does, it was the souls of Humans. Manus isn't the only type of character bursting with humanity, if you read about the Knightess it says underneath her armor she is a writihng mass of humanity. Just because his Humanity went wild and he created the abyss doesn't make him the Pygmy.

    Ancient Manus was clearly once human. But he became the Father of the Abyss after his humanity went wild, eternally seeking his precious broken pendant.

    All this proves is that he was once human, and was also the father of the abyss. Neither of those two things link him to the pygmy, other than that every human is in a small way descended from it.

    Furthermore, actual definitions of Primeval for your reading pleasure;

    relating to the earliest ages (as of the world or human history) : ancient, primitive <100 acres of primeval forest which has never felt an ax — Mary R. Zimmer>

    of or belonging to the first age or ages, esp of the world

    These prove only that Manus is very old, because he existed in the first age, not that he himself was the first.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by gmwdim on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:10 pm

    Frank's explanation makes sense, but I still don't think it's obvious at all. It could be that there were two "primeval" humans: one was the Pygmy, the other was Manus. Heck, there may be even more that are unnamed. Or, Manus could be a descendant of the Pygmy, or may have inherited the Dark Soul from the Pygmy. Maybe the Pygmy found the Dark Soul 5000 years ago and Manus took over possession of it when the Pygmy died, 4900 years ago. Or maybe Manus was another human from the same time as the Pygmy, stole it from him and the Dark Soul turned him into a mutilated humanity junkie and created the Abyss. The point is, I think there's room for speculation, and as for samster calling everyone else a fool...


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Naxek on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:37 pm

    gmwdim wrote:Frank's explanation makes sense, but I still don't think it's obvious at all. It could be that there were two "primeval" humans: one was the Pygmy, the other was Manus. Heck, there may be even more that are unnamed. Or, Manus could be a descendant of the Pygmy, or may have inherited the Dark Soul from the Pygmy. Maybe the Pygmy found the Dark Soul 5000 years ago and Manus took over possession of it when the Pygmy died, 4900 years ago. Or maybe Manus was another human from the same time as the Pygmy, stole it from him and the Dark Soul turned him into a mutilated humanity junkie and created the Abyss. The point is, I think there's room for speculation, and as for samster calling everyone else a fool...

    And once again, Primeval doesn't mean first, Primeval things would just be things that existed before the medieval period. That's just the facts and I feel like the word is misused a lot, especially in this particular argument.

    As for my speculation, I don't think the Dark Soul is the Abyss. The Dark Soul is simply the soul of Humanity. Manus just seems to me to have been a powerful and ancient human that went wild.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:54 am

    i want the legendary big M mentioned in demons souls, or at least a reference, some random summon against a dragon boss who slaughters it with his fists...


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Frank_White on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:17 am

    samster628 wrote:
    Frank_White wrote:The Furtive Pygmy is already in Dark Souls (in Oolacile).
    I'd most like to see Arstor the Earl of Carim. If he is in, he's probably the final boss.
    I rekon DS2 is in Carim 'cos that's where the gods are said to have gone and that makes it interesting. That or an entirely new land.

    I know, since I saw the trailer I've thought there's about a 90% chance it is in Carim. It's just the most logical conclusion if you look at all the hints.
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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Frank_White on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:29 am

    Primeval does refer to the first ones, the age in the very beginning. You just linked the definition of "primeval" and this confirms it.
    Anyway, look at this from the viewpoint of FromSoft. They put in all these subtle hints that Manus might be the Pygmy, now, if Manus was just his descendant or something, why would they do that? Because Dark Souls II will have a separate plot, if Manus was not the Pygmy, the mystery would most likely never be resolved in DkS II.
    Sorry for those who like to speculate endlessly, but the most simple and logical solution here is, that Manus is the Pygmy, as is implied. There is no reason for FromSoft to mislead us in this case, because the story of the first Dark Souls is wrapped up.
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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Slarg232 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:35 pm

    Frank_White wrote:Primeval does refer to the first ones, the age in the very beginning. You just linked the definition of "primeval" and this confirms it.
    Anyway, look at this from the viewpoint of FromSoft. They put in all these subtle hints that Manus might be the Pygmy, now, if Manus was just his descendant or something, why would they do that? Because Dark Souls II will have a separate plot, if Manus was not the Pygmy, the mystery would most likely never be resolved in DkS II.
    Sorry for those who like to speculate endlessly, but the most simple and logical solution here is, that Manus is the Pygmy, as is implied. There is no reason for FromSoft to mislead us in this case, because the story of the first Dark Souls is wrapped up.

    Except for Gwyn, The Witches, and the Pygmy were all human, so we know that there are other humans out there. For all we know, Manus and the Oolacile Inhabitants were just a one time thing. There are quite a few possible explanations for Manus:

    A Male bonfire keeper, since Men can't hold it, he could have been the first and only male one. He couldn't handle the Humanity and was broken for it.

    Could have been a cousin/lover/friend of the Pygmy, and collected a larger amount of Humanity than anyone else.

    Could be what happens when humans become obsessed over something instead of when we lose hope and hollow.

    You don't know, we just have hints. Why do you think so many people can argue over Solaire being or not being the firstborn (Possibly one of the most controversial things in the game)? It's because we don't know.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Naxek on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:30 pm

    Frank_White wrote:Primeval does refer to the first ones, the age in the very beginning. You just linked the definition of "primeval" and this confirms it.
    Anyway, look at this from the viewpoint of FromSoft. They put in all these subtle hints that Manus might be the Pygmy, now, if Manus was just his descendant or something, why would they do that? Because Dark Souls II will have a separate plot, if Manus was not the Pygmy, the mystery would most likely never be resolved in DkS II.
    Sorry for those who like to speculate endlessly, but the most simple and logical solution here is, that Manus is the Pygmy, as is implied. There is no reason for FromSoft to mislead us in this case, because the story of the first Dark Souls is wrapped up.

    It means the first ones! Plural! not THE FIRST ONE. Please, read the read words I'm saying, rather than just seeing the word first and ignoring everything else. :/ Anyone (or anything for that matter) that existed in the Primeval age, is a Primeval thing. Not to mention in our own history the Primeval Age consisted of literally thousands of years! The first humans were all Primeval, not just one of them.

    I think most people are so eager to feel like everything story related is just wrapped up in the game itself that they begin to make up explanations.

    To clarify, Manus could be the Pygmy I'm not saying he isn't, what I am saying is it's not even kind of factual that he is, so don't treat other people as fools if they disagree with what is ONLY your opinion.


    Last edited by Naxek on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by nsane32 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:26 pm

    You(aka the guy from DKS 1)

    Edit:and for all that above mess of course you can speculate on the lore its Dark Souls no one is completely right when it comes to lore


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Aevun on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:33 am

    -The Chosen Undead
    -Eidos
    -Velka
    -Knight-king Rendal


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by samster628 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:51 am

    You can ignore this rant about why i called people fools etcetera
    Me wrote:

    Ok you ask for the numerous hints and here are some of them (though you should really just check the archives)

    *WARNING upcoming spoilers about the AotA dlc*

    First up humanity is what gives us human form and its power is what makes us look different to the humans we see in the intro. Perhaps normal people are simply undead bound to humanity so they can't lose it. Now look at the big humanities in the chasm of the abyss in the dlc. Clearly they are both the same thing which also connects them to Manus who is lord of the abyss. Now look at the description of his soul
    "Soul of Manus, Father of the Abyss. This extraordinary soul is a viscous, lukewarm lump of gentle humanity. Ancient Manus was clearly once human. But he became the Father of the Abyss after his humanity went wild, eternally seeking his precious broken pendant."
    This confirms that his soul and humanity sprites are part of the same thing. Now look at Elisabeth's words that he is a "primordial human". This shows Manus is one of the first humans if not the first one. What makes him so special from other humans then and why did his humanity go wild? How is it that he of all people can control this massive abyss? Because he had the dark soul which grows in power as the other souls wane. This sent manus mad and deformed him. That is the most logical explanation although admittedly not the only one. Then look at his role in the game. The other lords are Find out what happened to the other lord soul wielders. The dragon of ash lake is to show what the world was once like and about dragons. The painting of ariamis is just for additional speculation but it does not play as bigger role as oolicile and i think was designed specifically to test secret finders. So what is oolicile for: to find out about the last great soul bearer who was the only one not in the main game. Possibly his original role before he was cut was to have to get his soul to salivate the lordvessel too.

    oh and my fool comment was an opinion/ statement of fact which while it is admittedly rude was in response to myself being offended at being made out to be an idiot heretic with a mad speculation as i felt was implied in the post above my previous comment. While you don't have to believe yourself the evidence is pretty conclusive given that this is dark souls and evidence here is like finding a particular stone which was thrown into the sea in a random place. Apologies for any undue offence caused.
    In short everyone does have the right to an opinion and i took offence at the 'whatever randomers beleving something that is not true' comment above the fools comment. And i reserve the right to be offended too.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by hey its andres on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:07 am

    Seriously you guys are Manus and your pendant is the Dark Souls Lore.


    Anyways, I had an idea that maybe Priscilla wasn't the abomination mentioned in the Peculiar Doll description. If that's the case I'd really like to see who the world was intended for. In some part it seems to a prison made for those who pose a threat to the gods, and on the other hand, it seems like a sanctuary made by Ariamis to house a lonely girl with no place in this world (heck it could even be that girl in the trailer). Ariamis would be a cool person to meet as well; although, this is very unlikely as the Painted World seems to have been here for a long time.

    All of this is just wishful thinking eloping with my wild imagination.


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by CarverUpqik on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:36 am

    id like them to prove if solaire is Gwyns firstborn or not thats technically adding a character only talked about even if it solaire because they never actually said he was


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    Re: Which characters would you like to see in Dark souls 2 who were only mentioned in dark souls ?

    Post by Johnthethird on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:53 am

    One thing that makes me believe that manus is not the pygmy, is that when you kill manus and get his soul, it is not a lord soul, or even a lord soul fragment.

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