Why all the Spear Hating???

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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:09 pm

    Everyone's best weapon should be a spear, that's the problem.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:13 pm

    The Letter X wrote:Everyone's best weapon should be a spear, that's the problem.

    Thats not really true. I hardly ever see spear users. Most people I encounter have two-handed greatswords, or buffed rapiers/shortswords. I think many people just hate the spear because they dont know how effective it can be. Thats just my opinion though.

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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:17 pm

    You either don't know how to defend against one well enough or the overuse of poking turtles with spears who are too afraid of death. That's part of it. The spear is not a weapon to hate, rather see it as a challenge.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Rynn on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:19 pm

    Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:Everyone's best weapon should be a spear, that's the problem.

    Thats not really true. I hardly ever see spear users. Most people I encounter have two-handed greatswords, or buffed rapiers/shortswords. I think many people just hate the spear because they dont know how effective it can be. Thats just my opinion though.
    I think you misunderstood him, He was saying the weapon gets so much hate because, due to how easy it is to use, a spear is anyones "best weapon". People don't PvP with their best weapon if it's pants on head retarded/boring.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:21 pm

    Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:Everyone's best weapon should be a spear, that's the problem.

    Thats not really true. I hardly ever see spear users. Most people I encounter have two-handed greatswords, or buffed rapiers/shortswords. I think many people just hate the spear because they dont know how effective it can be. Thats just my opinion though.

    Or people don't like using certain equipment because they find it to be too easy to win. I don't like using a katana or great scythe that much anymore because I find they are too easy to get wins with. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the weapons, I just want a challenge.

    And all of the best PvPers I know basically agree that spears are a no-no in serious PvP. If you want to prove anything, use a different weapon.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:25 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:Everyone's best weapon should be a spear, that's the problem.

    Thats not really true. I hardly ever see spear users. Most people I encounter have two-handed greatswords, or buffed rapiers/shortswords. I think many people just hate the spear because they dont know how effective it can be. Thats just my opinion though.
    I think you misunderstood him, He was saying the weapon gets so much hate because, due to how easy it is to use, a spear is anyones "best weapon". People don't PvP with their best weapon if it's pants on head retarded/boring.

    Oops, I misunderstood him. The Spear for me is not even close to being my best weapon, but I use it because I have grown to hate using magic or trying to beat a turtler or tank when i'm using a halberd or greatsword.

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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Hallsey on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:57 pm

    the fact of the matter is not the weapon (a spear in this case) itself but the oposing players themselves. everybody in the darksouls community has a certian weapon or combat tactic that they down right hate. some people hate casters, seeing it as cheap play; others claymores or zewi's. I can see why people would be annoyed by a spear. it can be a real pain dealing with a long reaching weapon especially if your weapon setup is at a disadvantage. people who are hating on you just becuase they cant get around your build setup are just poor sports period. it's their fault if they can' get around an enemys tactics or play style.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:17 pm

    The Letter X wrote:...And all of the best PvPers I know basically agree that spears are a no-no in serious PvP. If you want to prove anything, use a different weapon....

    This is going in the quotes of the day.

    This has been the mentality for a long time now. The top pros didn't develop this opinion until about 1 month in...apprx.

    The only reason it wasn't stated the day of release is because spears were ridiculous in Demon's Souls and not the first choice.

    As a matter of fact, I believe Oroboro was the first to point it out.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:27 pm

    Hallsey wrote:the fact of the matter is not the weapon (a spear in this case) itself but the oposing players themselves. everybody in the darksouls community has a certian weapon or combat tactic that they down right hate. some people hate casters, seeing it as cheap play; others claymores or zewi's. I can see why people would be annoyed by a spear. it can be a real pain dealing with a long reaching weapon especially if your weapon setup is at a disadvantage. people who are hating on you just becuase they cant get around your build setup are just poor sports period. it's their fault if they can' get around an enemys tactics or play style.
    I completely agree. I just dont like when people are constantly sending me messages when I kill them.

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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by GrinTwist on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:42 pm

    I use spears every once and a while but for the most part I've never cared for using them, although I think the winged spear is a damn good weapon for PVP. The only spear I can't stand is the Dragonslayer Spear and I didn't start hating that thing a month ago I've always hated that spear. I've tried multiple tactics when dealing with it too. If I block they 2h and spam r1 until my defense is broken, if I range they either charge me or turtle.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:57 am

    Tl;DT
    -Slow to fight against
    -skilled users hard to exploit
    -repetitive

    In the time you could have used to battle and win (or lose) against a spear user you could have probably bashed in at least 3 peoples' skulls/backbones (or have the same done to you).

    Hands up if you agree


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by LordTransvalence on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:17 pm

    I think spears are totally fair , and Legit. If u think about it this way , one day people are going to hate dark bead , then the dark silver tracer. ECT. Because they have no tactic or have not taken time to consider one. I duel in the battle arena ALOT , and i faced a Dragon Slayer Spear User. He was useing the eagle sheild. I Took that to my advantage , and used a magic weapon. Dodgeing his attack and just hitting his sheild killed him. I rinsed and repeated , and won. Spears were put into the game for a reason , so were dark magic bandits knife ect. Because you CAN beat them , and you just have to look for a way to do so. And u can easily parry spears. Just get right in there face and parry. 95 % of the time i land the parry.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:34 pm

    LordTransvalence wrote:Because you CAN beat them , and you just have to look for a way to do so. And u can easily parry spears. Just get right in there face and parry. 95 % of the time i land the parry.

    Clearly you haven't met a competent spear user.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by swordiris on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:49 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:...And all of the best PvPers I know basically agree that spears are a no-no in serious PvP. If you want to prove anything, use a different weapon....

    This is going in the quotes of the day.

    This has been the mentality for a long time now. The top pros didn't develop this opinion until about 1 month in...apprx.

    The only reason it wasn't stated the day of release is because spears were ridiculous in Demon's Souls and not the first choice.

    As a matter of fact, I believe Oroboro was the first to point it out.

    I consider myself a serious PVPer and I can still be impressed by spear users.

    As long as the player doesn't wear a family mask, he has the possibility to impress me in a serious pvp match.

    I do agree the tip should be parried but spears are not unbeatable.

    I have never tried a spear myself.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by LordTransvalence on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:06 pm

    No ^ , ive player with alot of skilled players . You just need practice.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Avenger649 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:13 pm

    I have met some very competent spear users and they annoy the hell out of me. Mainly because even a poise stacking tank cannot trade for them without using a spear. A good spear user will always hit you with the tip of the spear so you cannot parry and most will not do rolling attacks purely because they can be parried.
    While this is the extreme of what they can do if you do get a hit in I just stunlock them with a ultra greatsword because most have little poise.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:43 pm

    LordTransvalence wrote:No ^ , ive player with alot of skilled players . You just need practice.

    I don't see how it's possible you regularly parry skilled spear users, in fact I would say that would be a non sequitur. Anyone approaching competency with a spear would not attack while you're right in front of them. And against a good spear user I'd imagine you'd find it near impossible to get right in their face at all, let alone draw an attack and parry.

    If I'm missing something, please let me know. If you have a secret, feel free to unburden yourself. I'd love to know how to manipulate spear users (or any opponent) to behave in a manner beneficial to me.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:28 pm

    Nobody has said spears are unbeatable, that I've seen. If they did, they are provably wrong.

    What has been said, and is entirely true, is that they have all the advantages of every other weapon, except easy dead angles and stunlocks, are incredibly difficult to punish or counter (unless the user sucks) and (despite what has been said) are quite capable of avoiding stunlocks through stacked poise and superior range.

    Also (as an example) For every 1 zweihander hit for 450 damage and 75 poise damage, the spear can attack 3 times for just over 1k damage without the leo ring and 90 poise damage.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dutchy on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:13 pm

    The Letter X wrote:
    Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:Everyone's best weapon should be a spear, that's the problem.

    Thats not really true. I hardly ever see spear users. Most people I encounter have two-handed greatswords, or buffed rapiers/shortswords. I think many people just hate the spear because they dont know how effective it can be. Thats just my opinion though.

    Or people don't like using certain equipment because they find it to be too easy to win. I don't like using a katana or great scythe that much anymore because I find they are too easy to get wins with. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the weapons, I just want a challenge.

    And all of the best PvPers I know basically agree that spears are a no-no in serious PvP. If you want to prove anything, use a different weapon.

    Any serious PvPers know that if it's in the game it's a yes-yes for PvP. Otherwise it wouldn't be in the game. That's just othering.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dutchy on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Also (as an example) For every 1 zweihander hit for 450 damage and 75 poise damage, the spear can attack 3 times for just over 1k damage without the leo ring and 90 poise damage.

    That's if your retarded enough to not have a shield, have no to minimal poise. I don't have much trouble with spears, I actually hate Zwei users. So what does that speak about me? silly


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:20 pm

    Give me WoG and TWoP, or a spear, or the Washing Pole, or a Large Club with Hornets' and SLB.

    All of these things are in the game, but I will win 99% of my fights when using any of them. I would have shown little to no indication of skill if I beat my opponent with those combos."Good" or serious PvPers generally want to stay away from that.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:21 pm

    I say we have a drunk tournament, spears only.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dutchy on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:23 pm

    Come on Forum! Where his scrub mentality?!


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Phoenix Rising on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:23 pm

    The Letter X wrote:Give me WoG and TWoP, or a spear, or the Washing Pole, or a Large Club with Hornets' and SLB.

    Ummmmmmm......HELL NO!!!!


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Carphil on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:25 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I say we have a drunk tournament, spears only.

    Agreed. So the date must be anything after january 10, 2014.


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