Why all the Spear Hating???

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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Phoenix Rising on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:25 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I say we have a drunk tournament, spears only.

    I'm in...whats the minimum drink count.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Lord of Ash on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:34 pm

    Im a master of spears I use very light armor typicaly any of the hollow bits and either a sack bloated head or boar helm no shield Pike is my favorite


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Jansports on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:55 pm

    I could be drunk in 50 minutes Tolvo

    And X I think honestly the best players are the ones willing to say "yeah spears beat some weapons for free, good luck midrolling ect.ect." and still want to use a spear. Because anything you can do to improve your odds of winning is good.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by shadowzninjaz on Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:00 pm

    Lol Spear user just use a kat n dwgr flip XD

    If u r skilled with a kat u shouldnt really have any problem with spears even if they try turtle all day u can at least go for them parrys


    Spears just make me laugh such a ez kill


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:05 pm

    I've yet to find a player that is generally good and uses a spear as their main weapon except for Lord of Ash. I understand that may be your opinion on the best players, but the rest of them haven't held true to it for me.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Jansports on Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:00 am

    I didn't say good players only use spears I said they'd be willing to pull one out if it meant the difference between winning and losing. Wyrm Billy Rooster Reim Over the months and it's been quite some time since I've crossed swords with a few of them, I've seen them use spears (among many other weapons)

    The very fact many good players use weapons other than spears to me signifies that they are not in fact so powerfull as to cause balance problems
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by mugenis4real on Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:22 am

    Jansports wrote:I didn't say good players only use spears I said they'd be willing to pull one out if it meant the difference between winning and losing. Wyrm Billy Rooster Reim Over the months and it's been quite some time since I've crossed swords with a few of them, I've seen them use spears (among many other weapons)

    The very fact many good players use weapons other than spears to me signifies that they are not in fact so powerfull as to cause balance problems

    This. Point Forward

    Also to say that Spears in general are the "best" weapons leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Has anyone here seen the damage output of the Moonlight Butterfly Horn with your Int at 40?

    Then again it does put out pure magical damage...and I can't see getting hit while using one. Oh man. Are Spears OP? Shrug
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:42 am

    The Letter X wrote:I've yet to find a player that is generally good and uses a spear as their main weapon except for Lord of Ash. I understand that may be your opinion on the best players, but the rest of them haven't held true to it for me.

    I tend to use spears as my main weapon in both PvE and PvP. PvE for longer range fighting, as well as trying to avoid hoards. PvP because it fits my fighting style. I do not and will not use the DWGR during a fight, but I can maintain a fast ninja roll with the brass armor, ninja helmet, and crest shield. I also never turtle during fights, unless the guy is trying to spam pyro or spells, then I will keep my shield up for the extra protection. I usually just run right into the fight and pound away with my spear, rolling to avoid magic and backstab fishers.

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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by The Letter X on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:32 am

    Jansports wrote:I didn't say good players only use spears I said they'd be willing to pull one out if it meant the difference between winning and losing. Wyrm Billy Rooster Reim Over the months and it's been quite some time since I've crossed swords with a few of them, I've seen them use spears (among many other weapons)

    The very fact many good players use weapons other than spears to me signifies that they are not in fact so powerfull as to cause balance problems

    Then I apologize. Since you mentioned increasing your odds of winning, I figured you meant using spears quite a bit.

    I still need to disagree with you on your last point however. Giving a good player a spear makes them a great player, and giving a great player a spear makes them nearly unbeatable. Give them nearly any other weapon and they will become much easier to beat. That, in my opinion, makes them overpowered.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:43 am

    Jansports wrote:Tolvo posts best spear counter. Everyone agrees bow kiting is 100% better than spear kiting.

    Spears are so easy and unfair still waaahhhhhh wahhhhhhh

    Pull out a great scythe, lock off and do a running r1 attack while dodging all the arrows. If they switch weapons, just pull out the spear again.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by mugenis4real on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:35 am

    ^Then your just making the assumption that the dude is playing a Dex build. Not all of us can just whip out a Great Scythe. 🇳🇴
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:54 am

    There is no best or more powerful weapon in darksouls everytime Im trading they always ask whats the strongest or best and there is no right answer to that question Im good with spears and claymores give me a zweighlander or a katana and Id be screwed its all based on how you play as to what weapon you use this goes for armor as well I cant fight in heavy armor but I can kill most enemies naked Im bragging here but sometimes I go up against full havels or giants naked and mop the floor with em


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by roanispe on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:09 am

    Spurgun wrote:Pull out a great scythe, lock off and do a running r1 attack while dodging all the arrows. If they switch weapons, just pull out the spear again.

    I never got why people think Bows are a good counter to spears, it's always been the reverse for me. You can just run while going as far as you can to the side simultaneously, and do a running attack. If they don't knock their arrow in favour of dodging, nothing happens, but if they do, in the worst case you trade hits, and on average you score a free hit. Basically, doing what I figure you're talking about with your Great Scythe, it's a passable facsimile.

    The turtling capability also helps stop people from trying to use an arrow as the last hit, and the range helps deal with people who instead of shooting an arrow, go for a backstab instead. If I have DWGR on, I'd rather have an Estoc so I can roll BS the bow, but failing that, I'd choose a Spear. You only need 10 Dexterity to get a Demon Spear, or a Elemental Pike anyways, so it's always an option against Bow-Users.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:13 am

    I agree with the above post ^^. When your using a bow your defenses are pretty much useless. How is that going to be a good counter? If I saw someone pulling a bow out, getting magic ready, or running away, I would chase after them and attack the crap out of them. My only real weakness with my spear setup is that I can get stun-locked really easily, but I usually always end up rolling out of it and getting the win.

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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Rynn on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:20 am

    pretty much... if you look at weapons along all the traits that make it good, a spear has the best overall score.

    Damage, Stamina Cost, Weight, Range, Attack Speed, Recovery Speed, Moveset, Backstab Damage, Leo Counter Potential, etc.

    If you look at all it's traits, spears have impressive damage, low stamina cost, the highest range in the entire game, very quick attack speeds, quick recovery, a usable though limited moveset, impressive weight to backstab power ratio, low weight for it's potential, can get Leo Counters, and has an advantage that short of rapiers, no other weapon has, of being able to attack while blocking.

    Statistically they are overpowered, and even if they can be beaten, merely picking one up improves nearly anyones odds of victory, due to how many advantages compared to other weapons they have.

    The weapon isn't skill-less, the person must think to use it appropriately, but it's got the lowest skill cap of all weapons to do well with it.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by bob90 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:08 am

    Rynn wrote:pretty much... if you look at weapons along all the traits that make it good, a spear has the best overall score.

    Damage, Stamina Cost, Weight, Range, Attack Speed, Recovery Speed, Moveset, Backstab Damage, Leo Counter Potential, etc.

    If you look at all it's traits, spears have impressive damage, low stamina cost, the highest range in the entire game, very quick attack speeds, quick recovery, a usable though limited moveset, impressive weight to backstab power ratio, low weight for it's potential, can get Leo Counters, and has an advantage that short of rapiers, no other weapon has, of being able to attack while blocking.

    Statistically they are overpowered, and even if they can be beaten, merely picking one up improves nearly anyones odds of victory, due to how many advantages compared to other weapons they have.

    The weapon isn't skill-less, the person must think to use it appropriately, but it's got the lowest skill cap of all weapons to do well with it.

    yes cuz the easyest way of anything is walking forward. a baby learns that first by crwaling forward. and so its easy for ppl use the spear to pierce trough you lol
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:33 am

    I honestly don't have much experiance fighting spears (Mostly katanas is what I go up against), but can't you just get Poise and a STR weapon and pound them into the ground?


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by The Letter X on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:37 am

    Slarg232 wrote:I honestly don't have much experiance fighting spears (Mostly katanas is what I go up against), but can't you just get Poise and a STR weapon and pound them into the ground?

    Not if they only poke and roll away. It would prove to be very difficult, especially with a STR weapon. Not to say it's impossible, though.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Nybbles on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:55 am

    while my pvp skills have improved allot lately (either that or my artorias of the abyss build is op at level 99 even though i don't use a shield and i also mid roll – The Horror!) i cannot bring myself to use a spear for pvp. i cannot seem to make them work, in other words, i lose allot when using a spear (even though i was built to use a spear, fast roll good shield etc etc). at the same time, i cannot seem to win any matches against a spear user. even if they aren't turtling. go figure.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Ashran on Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:11 pm

    I love using my silver knight spear to fight gankers.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by shadowzninjaz on Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:14 pm

    Why are u guys over rating spears
    they can be easily beat n they do like no damage unless they get counter hits

    There is so much ways u can beat spear users
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:32 pm

    Dutchy wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Also (as an example) For every 1 zweihander hit for 450 damage and 75 poise damage, the spear can attack 3 times for just over 1k damage without the leo ring and 90 poise damage.

    That's if your retarded enough to not have a shield, have no to minimal poise. I don't have much trouble with spears, I actually hate Zwei users. So what does that speak about me? silly
    no, thats assuming the spear user catches you mid swing because they predict your attack or see it start, the zweih user is stuck in the swing untill the spear stuns him out of it.
    I'm not saying spears are unbeatable. Nobody is saying that. They are however incredibly annoying and dangerous, by virtue of their many strengths and few weaknesses.

    I beat spears all the time too. Its not like I'm whining because I can't beat them. Just stating the facts. They are unambigiously and universally (excluding the standard spear) top tier weapons.


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Jansports on Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:59 pm

    But Spears do low end poise damage, Have lower AR than other weapons at same stats (that is spears are given the low end of stat scaling as well...http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=300595719366286387) Have what might be the most limited moveset of any weapon type. None cause bleed. And they have the Third longest reach if we're only counting weapons(bows Xbows)

    Most Dex weapons put out more damage over time, every strength weapon puts out more per hit (nothing ends fights faster than large clubs of this I am certain) They have advantages yes, yes they do but so do other weapons, that's the point you make trade offs for your choices and end up with a unique souls experience as not everyone has the same weapon/poise/roll ect.

    I simply do not believe that spears have so many more advantages compared to some other weapons as to make them ubiquitously the best.
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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:24 pm

    ENOUGH BS you people think there is a set way to win it does not matter what weapon armor or spells you use if your skilled with what you have available you will be a force to recon with you may win some you may loose some nobody is undefeated If you try hard ennough and practice with your weapon youll master it and it doesnt matter what your enemy comes at you with youll find a way to utilize your skillset to its fullest


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    Re: Why all the Spear Hating???

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:55 pm

    Spears are op. Not all weapons are created equal.

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