About curved swords

    Share
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    About curved swords

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:14 am

    I was thinking about the differences between Scimitar and Falchion. It's true that Falchion has a slightly higher AR and is heavier than Scimitar, perhaps it's also slightly longer, but is that all?

    There are weapons like Washing Pole, Estoc, SKSS, Darksword, SSS and more, which can deal slightly more damage, can be longer and are heavier than the rest of the weapons in the same category. All of these weapons have one more similar trait. Slower swing speed, or slower swing recovery.

    Considering the differences between each of the curved swords, I came to the conclusion that Falchion should also have slower swing speed, or slower swing recovery. The weapon falls perfectly into the same description as the forementioned ones. Heavier, deals more damage, perhaps even longer. But it doesn't have slower swing speed, or slower swing recovery. Why?

    Let's take a look at each of the curved swords individually:

    Painting Guardian Sword
    Highest damage and bleed, but it's very short. It's also light and can be buffed.
    1.5 W

    Gold Tracer
    Second lowest damage and bleed, however it has more range than PGS. Can't be buffed and it's slightly heavier than PGS.
    2.0 W

    Shotel
    Lowest damage, but can bypass shields. It is a feature good enough to justify it's low damage, shorter reach and weight.
    2.5 W

    Scimitar
    Medium damage. No special features, except for being buffable. Very light.
    1.5 W

    Falchion
    Second highest damage. No special features, except for being buffable. It's one of the heaviest curved swords.
    2.5 W

    If you take a look at the weapons from this perspective, then there's no reason for Scimitar to even exist. I doubt it's there noly because it's lighter. Considering how the forementioned examples from other weapon classes work, the Falchion should definitely have slower swing speed, or slower swing recovery. Not only Falchion, but Shotel as well.
    This would make Scimitar a worthwhile weapon and using it would finally have some merits, other than saving Equip Burden.

    Weight wise, I don't know where to put Gold Tracer, but I think that it could use slower swing speed, or slower swing recovery as well.

    What doest thou sayest?

    avatar
    Jodecho
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 158
    Reputation : 5
    Join date : 2012-12-27

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Jodecho on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:20 am

    nice analysis, though ive never been big on that class of weapons. well except the shotel, but its only for making Turtle Soup.
    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Rynn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:21 am

    Why do curved swords do 180% of the damage of daggers while only swinging 5% slower then a bandit knife?
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:27 am

    Rynn wrote:Why do curved swords do 180% of the damage of daggers while only swinging 5% slower then a bandit knife?
    Because daggers aren't meant to be used to slice people, but stab their kidneys.

    Daggers have crappy damage, albeit being very fast, but they have high Criticals.

    On the other hand, curved swords have one of the weakest Criticals in the game.

    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:29 am

    What makes it worse is that the Falchion and Scimitar have identical movesets. The only reason anyone should ever use the Scimitar is if they really need that 1 unit of weight, or for looks.


    _________________
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:32 am

    The Letter X wrote:What makes it worse is that the Falchion and Scimitar have identical movesets. The only reason anyone should ever use the Scimitar is if they really need that 1 unit of weight, or for looks.
    Exactly.
    That's why I think that Falchion should be slower, to compensate for this and it would only make sense, considering that it's heavier then Scimitar.

    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:38 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:What makes it worse is that the Falchion and Scimitar have identical movesets. The only reason anyone should ever use the Scimitar is if they really need that 1 unit of weight, or for looks.
    Exactly.
    That's why I think that Falchion should be slower, to compensate for this and it would only make sense, considering that it's heavier then Scimitar.

    As much as I like the Falchion, I agree. You forgot the Fury Sword in the OP, but you still get your point across. silly


    _________________
    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Rynn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:40 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    Rynn wrote:Why do curved swords do 180% of the damage of daggers while only swinging 5% slower then a bandit knife?
    Because daggers aren't meant to be used to slice people, but stab their kidneys.

    Daggers have crappy damage, albeit being very fast, but they have high Criticals.

    On the other hand, curved swords have one of the weakest Criticals in the game.
    But a dagger only does 900 damage on a backstab, while the scimitar, for the same weight, would do 680, and then do far more damage on normal swings.
    avatar
    AnCapaillMor
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1282
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2013-02-11
    Location : Shayol Ghul

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:41 am

    I want the killij from the demons souls back. That was a beautful sword.


    _________________
    PSN: AnCapaillMor

    PC:AnCapaillMor

    XBOX: I'll give you 2 guesses
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:43 am

    Rynn wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:
    Rynn wrote:Why do curved swords do 180% of the damage of daggers while only swinging 5% slower then a bandit knife?
    Because daggers aren't meant to be used to slice people, but stab their kidneys.

    Daggers have crappy damage, albeit being very fast, but they have high Criticals.

    On the other hand, curved swords have one of the weakest Criticals in the game.
    But a dagger only does 900 damage on a backstab, while the scimitar, for the same weight, would do 680, and then do far more damage on normal swings.

    That's how a dagger should function. The spread is even greater on ripostes.


    _________________
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:48 am

    The Letter X wrote:As much as I like the Falchion, I agree. You forgot the Fury Sword in the OP, but you still get your point across. silly
    I never use the damned thing, that's why I forgot it. I'll test it when I get home and edit the OP if it has different speed than the rest.
    The Letter X wrote:That's how a dagger should function. The spread is even greater on ripostes.
    Exactly.

    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Rynn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:52 am

    The Letter X wrote:
    Rynn wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:
    Rynn wrote:Why do curved swords do 180% of the damage of daggers while only swinging 5% slower then a bandit knife?
    Because daggers aren't meant to be used to slice people, but stab their kidneys.

    Daggers have crappy damage, albeit being very fast, but they have high Criticals.

    On the other hand, curved swords have one of the weakest Criticals in the game.
    But a dagger only does 900 damage on a backstab, while the scimitar, for the same weight, would do 680, and then do far more damage on normal swings.

    That's how a dagger should function. The spread is even greater on ripostes.
    So if i get this straight...
    The damage of a backstab is only 220 points lower, ripostes are 260 lower.
    However it's perfectly fine that daggers do around 100 damage a swing while the sciitar will do 340, and swing almost as fast as that dagger, which results in it having three times the DPS without having a large malice to it's backstab dps?
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:53 am

    The Fury Sword is slower, but I can't remember its exact weight. I'm not entirely sure about its damage but it is the longest. Especially after thinking about it, it would only make since to make the Falchion swing the same speed as the Fury Sword.


    _________________
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:56 am

    Rynn wrote:So if i get this straight...
    The damage of a backstab is only 220 points lower, ripostes are 260 lower.
    However it's perfectly fine that daggers do around 100 damage a swing while the sciitar will do 340, and swing almost as fast as that dagger, which results in it having three times the DPS without having a large malice to it's backstab dps?

    That is what I believe, yes. A curved sword should be able to obliterate a dagger in head-on melee combat.

    And I've hit for as low as 450 on ripostes with curved swords. I'm sure it would be around 750-800 with a dagger.


    _________________
    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Rynn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:02 am

    The Letter X wrote:
    Rynn wrote:So if i get this straight...
    The damage of a backstab is only 220 points lower, ripostes are 260 lower.
    However it's perfectly fine that daggers do around 100 damage a swing while the sciitar will do 340, and swing almost as fast as that dagger, which results in it having three times the DPS without having a large malice to it's backstab dps?

    That is what I believe, yes. A curved sword should be able to obliterate a dagger in head-on melee combat.

    And I've hit for as low as 450 on ripostes with curved swords. I'm sure it would be around 750-800 with a dagger.
    Is that with the appropriate 45 dex? i've never hit below 700 on a riposte with my scimitar.

    My problem with curved Swords is that they have disproportinate speed to damage ratios, which makes them superior to every dex weapon when it comes to damage. The very way a curved sword fights begs for an R1 spam... begs for it.
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:08 am

    Rynn wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:
    Rynn wrote:So if i get this straight...
    The damage of a backstab is only 220 points lower, ripostes are 260 lower.
    However it's perfectly fine that daggers do around 100 damage a swing while the sciitar will do 340, and swing almost as fast as that dagger, which results in it having three times the DPS without having a large malice to it's backstab dps?

    That is what I believe, yes. A curved sword should be able to obliterate a dagger in head-on melee combat.

    And I've hit for as low as 450 on ripostes with curved swords. I'm sure it would be around 750-800 with a dagger.
    Is that with the appropriate 45 dex? i've never hit below 700 on a riposte with my scimitar.

    My problem with curved Swords is that they have disproportinate speed to damage ratios, which makes them superior to every dex weapon when it comes to damage. The very way a curved sword fights begs for an R1 spam... begs for it.

    It was with 40 dex against a heavily armored character. Of course it begs for R1 spam if you just sit there and do nothing about it. We have longer katana with bleed, much longer halberds, a longer straight sword with ridiculous potential for thrust damage, and daggers for critical attacks. I believe curved swords suit there role for "noob-friendly" R1 spam DPS output.


    _________________
    avatar
    EeAyEss
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1622
    Reputation : 47
    Join date : 2012-05-14
    Age : 21
    Location : In front of my Calculus textbook.

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:15 am

    Except ... *comment removed by Falchion Secret Police*


    Last edited by EeAyEss on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:23 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Falchion Secret Police method-release rule broken. Editing and warning given.)


    _________________
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 am

    EeAyEss wrote:I like pie.

    Boom.


    Last edited by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:23 am

    The Letter X wrote:
    EeAyEss wrote:Except in the off-hand. Am I right, X, or am I right?

    We should vow never to speak of it. They may catch onto us.
    I prefer PGS, but to each his own. I saw a guy do it with Furysword and boy did it look silly.

    avatar
    EeAyEss
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1622
    Reputation : 47
    Join date : 2012-05-14
    Age : 21
    Location : In front of my Calculus textbook.

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:23 am

    Quick, X, edit it! Before the FSP do it to you, too!


    _________________

    Nybbles
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 785
    Reputation : 45
    Join date : 2012-07-31

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Nybbles on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:31 am

    don't forget that a falchion can break 54 poise.

    i found that out while forest hunting yesterday. i had the gravelord greatsword and ran into a falchion user (lots of them recently now that i think about it), i got off one two-handed swing and by that time they had broken my 54 poise then stun-locked me to death.

    i don't know how well the other curved swords break poise, but the falchion is apparently amazing at it.
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:33 am

    Nybbles wrote:don't forget that a falchion can break 54 poise.

    i found that out while forest hunting yesterday. i had the gravelord greatsword and ran into a falchion user (lots of them recently now that i think about it), i got off one two-handed swing and by that time they had broken my 54 poise then stun-locked me to death.

    i don't know how well the other curved swords break poise, but the falchion is apparently amazing at it.

    It breaks 30 poise when two-handed. You may have stumbled upon a modder or suffered from a phantom hit beforehand.]

    Nevermind. I thought you meant that it was on the first swing. If you let them get in multiple swings they stunlock like a boss.


    Last edited by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:35 am

    They all do that (not sure about Furysword tbh).

    I was testing them yesterday in preparation for this topic and they all stunlock the same. At first, it seemed that the only exception to this is PGS, but that was an error. It wasn't due to lesser Poise damage, but due to it's range and it thus gave me different results. In the end I tested it with a friend and it did the same as others.


    Nybbles
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 785
    Reputation : 45
    Join date : 2012-07-31

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Nybbles on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:38 am

    it was on PS3, so a modder was unlikely. i don't think it was caused by a phantom hit either. the only thing i know for certain is that i am not trying to trade blows with a falchion again.
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by The Letter X on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:39 am

    Nybbles wrote:it was on PS3, so a modder was unlikely. i don't think it was caused by a phantom hit either. the only thin i know for certain is that i am not trying to trade blows with a falchion again.

    I edited my post. All they'd need is 2 swings to start a stunlock on you.


    _________________

    Sponsored content

    Re: About curved swords

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:45 pm