Mages: Why the hate?

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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by mugenis4real on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:51 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    mugenis4real wrote:Truth be told I haven't used a weapon or shield in Dark Souls for months now. After the DLC dropped, mages became more powerful than ever. These are my current builds and my win-loss in Undead Burg duels.

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=187287502795171285
    Wins: 87
    Losses: 6
    Draws: 5

    https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=184348154726473680
    Wins: 44
    Losses: 3
    Draws: 0

    I think the numbers speak for themselves. To be honest I'm loving this play-style simply because it makes me feel GODLIKE king against melee oriented players.

    One thing I will never understand though is why no one ever uses this miracle, especially after the DLC
    http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Vow+of+Silence

    On a more final note, to say that being a Caster takes no skill is the same as saying "I don't understand Dark Souls." Look Skyward

    OMG THE BEAUTY!!!!! ITS BLINDING ME!!! :affraid: ... :shock: ... :pirat: ...there goes my left eye.
    I dont even care if you are wearing ears lol. Bow
    lol! Thanks man, being a full time caster usually earns me a lot more hate than love

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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:07 am

    mugenis4real wrote: lol! Thanks man, being a full time caster usually earns me a lot more hate than love

    Casters get no love until we strip ourselves of an advantage and make someone feel warm inside because it took awhile to kill em lol.

    The top players I've played with dont fall for my sh!t at all man. I dont feel op playing against certain people at all, whether I'm casting or spellswording.

    Even if I didnt wear the BDCR, or the ears, or a TCC...I still got hatemail. I couldnt help but think Look Skyward ...

    "...I'm a spammer huh? Really man? I almost spent all my mana on you dude.... Coffee!...
    ...AND THAT COMBO WAS AWESOME :affraid: ...do you know how hard that was to do? " :roll:
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by EeAyEss on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:09 am

    Due to the fact I posted on the bottom of the previous page:



    I will put it simply:

    I HATE ALL OFFENSIVE MAGIC. I just do.

    If anyone has seen my anti-thesis to magic build, then you know my stance.

    Spoiler:
    Note, offensive. Supporting magic/defensive magic, I will use. Typically because it cancels offensive magic.

    To talk about those who say magic is cheap, spamming is cheap. But you can also spam katanas, spears, zweihanders... the list goes on. Admittedly, magic spam can either be:

    a. A godsend for anyone with competent dodging skills and no lag, or
    b. A gift from @#!*% for anyone with lag.

    So, in my opinion, spam magic is worse than spam melee. About VoS, it'sa range is limited. In certain cases, they will just fire outside of VoS's range.

    About good magic shields: A CSS could do upwards of 1k points of damage, blocking does 80% most cases, therefore 200 points of damage is taken. 200. A good amount. I concede GMB, but what competent mage (who isn't cosplaying) doesn't pack pyromancy? *Which can also hit for upwards of 1k points of damage*


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:27 am

    A Casters' Credo

    I love my magic oh yes I do,
    have but a taste and you will too.
    They say I'm twisted and morally slanted,
    but in their defeat is a seed I have planted.

    One day they will come and asking a question,
    of which way to go in their quest for direction.
    I tell them the same come one come all,
    "You do not love the magic it's you who shall fall!"

    :weap-enchanted:

    The Eye The Eye
    We are watching, let the war begin.
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Emergence on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:13 am

    Anyone who thinks Magic is OP do this and experience magic in a different environment:

    Make your best caster at 100 that you can.
    Go into Arena 2v2.
    Try and beat people like Reim and Rifter.

    I have a caster. I know what I'm doing with it, how to set up, space, chain combos, attune for cadence, memorize order, spell cancel fakeout, and how to use Velka's and a Falchion when needed. I get run through the grinder in arena all the same. In 2v2 you really experience the need to conserve your casting. The longer you go without dieing, the harder it gets. The assertion that a caster takes no skill goes out the window in 2v2, because a caster with no skill becomes a liability, and a caster with skill stands on equal footing.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:42 am

    Emergence wrote:Anyone who thinks Magic is OP do this and experience magic in a different environment:

    Make your best caster at 100 that you can.
    Go into Arena 2v2.
    Try and beat people like Reim and Rifter.

    I have a caster. I know what I'm doing with it, how to set up, space, chain combos, attune for cadence, memorize order, spell cancel fakeout, and how to use Velka's and a Falchion when needed. I get run through the grinder in arena all the same. In 2v2 you really experience the need to conserve your casting. The longer you go without dieing, the harder it gets. The assertion that a caster takes no skill goes out the window in 2v2, because a caster with no skill becomes a liability, and a caster with skill stands on equal footing.

    cheers You are my fearless leader cheers
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Rynn on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:02 am

    Emergence wrote:
    Try and beat people like Reim and Rifter.
    If I just had access to PSN...
    I firmly stay planted in my belief that magic is OP right now : (
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:59 am

    I don't wish to participate in this discussion, but i will.

    There is magic that is... less skilled and less balanced, just as there are melee weapons that are less skilled and balanced. It's the way you use it that determines whether it's skillful or not.

    For example: Most people would claim that hiding behind a shield and using a spear is less skillful, because, it does work unless you face an experienced player or you screw up. Dark Beads can be spammed right to the face, which means you'll have to play carefully sometimes.

    Using magic is not more skillful than it is using melee. The same rule applies for the other way around.

    As for what you said here:

    Shindori wrote:I mean.. same damage output can be done with a buffed ultra greatsword. Max out the damage, buff it, use power within, red tearstone ring, hornet ring, and land a nice little riposte or backstab.. or ****, even just doing a heavy attack and landing it and bam, one hit kill.

    I see where you're getting with this, but it's not really a good example. To get a riposte, you need your opponent to attack. You don't need them to do so to use magic. To get a backstab... well, we all know how that works...

    The reason for you being downvoted is most likely, as was said, the way you put it. For one thing you actually insulted people that find magic to be OP and unbalanced. Now, whether they're right or wrong doesn't matter, but the fact that you insulted them is what most likely got you those downvotes.

    Also, i'm not sure but i believe this "MAY" go against the forum guidelines:

    Shindori wrote:Well im guessing it was probably jester since he seems rather short fused at the fact i even use magic. He's been being very immature lately.

    "6. Don't single out PSN of XBLA names in an attempt to slander."

    From: http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t2-forum-guidelines

    I'm only stating my opinion and what i believe to define skill. That which i believe is the way you handle your gear and the enviroment.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by EeAyEss on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:19 am

    I just don't like magic.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:42 am

    Replace the word "magic" with P90 or USAS and you got yourself a COD or BF3 thread. It's the same across all games and across all time, I'm sure there's been cavemen many millenia ago complaing about how only noobs use flint.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Nybbles on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:15 pm

    i find that magic abusers are the most annoying players to fight in PVP. these are not the skilled players (mages or otherwise) that make PVP enjoyable for me. most of my PVP experience comes from forest hunting or gravelording, and in my experience, if the other player is loosing badly they pull out the dark bead crutch and start spam casting because they know all they need is one hit to finish the fight (even if i still have a full health bar).

    you can't tell me that magic abuser don't know that all they need is one lucky shot since they have the power to OHKO anyone with less than 50 Vit. you can't tell me that they don't understand this as they continually mash the button to fire off dark bead or soul spear or whatever. even if i can dodge their spells 9 out of 10 times, that 1 hit is instant death. then you add lag and the glitchy as *** pursuers spell and the odds get skewed even more in their favor.

    dark bead is way to powerful and is way to easy to abuse. it takes a dedicated and specialized melee build to hit the same amount of damage that a level 10 sorcerer build can hit for using dark bead. it's not even close to being balanced or fair in PVP or in PVE as magic also makes almost every boss in the game trivial.

    okay sure you can defend against magic. you can dodge it most of the time but like i said all it takes is one hit. you can use vow of silence but the casting range of most magic exceeds the radius of VoS. you can use magic barrier, but that requires a heavy investment into a stat you might not otherwise want to use plus it has a time limit and the mage just has to wait for it to expire. magic shield would be a good option if it lasted more than 15 seconds. you could use tranquil walk to close the distance with the mage, but they don't need to even move if they are casting dark bead and it's even more dangerous in close proximity anyway.

    on the flip side, pure melee builds never run out of swings. they can do a scary amount of damage with certain types of gear combinations but it also often requires a dedicated and heavy stat investment as well. if you do want to hit hard, you also have to be slow and prepared to be punished when you miss (or you fish for backstabs which has it's own set of problems) lag can affect melee in as many weird ways as it can with magic but the punishments for getting tagged with a laggy hit doesn't often result in instant death.

    in my view, it comes down to investment and ease of use. you just don't need to invest that much into becoming a magic abuser and it's one shot power makes the game pretty easy to complete or to be competitive when compared to dedicated melee builds. i see magic as more of a crutch for those players that think the only fun to be had in Dark Souls is winning.
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:41 pm

    http://mmdks.com/1cmt
    Did I forgot something?

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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:00 pm

    Sentiel wrote:http://mmdks.com/1cmt
    Did I forgot something?



    Ok forgive my ignorance and the dishonour i have brought upon myself but why is it every mage i bump into on the PC has giants armour, never bothered checking it out, is it a fashion statement or does it have another purpose? I know the hollow leggings have high poise to weight, whats the giants armour thing.
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:03 pm

    Game's highest defenses.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:08 pm

    People that wear the ears, BDCR, and the TCC trying to OHKO, are the same as people abusing the Hornets Ring and anything else that has OHKO capabilities.

    Magic, Pyro, and Miracles are not the problem. The problem is people using cheap tactics.

    I never use the ears, BDCR, or the TCC but yet I still get hatemail. Why I ask? I rarely cast 2 spells in a row, and none of my spells OHKO anything.

    People say all the time, "Use the CoD, use the BDCR, or use the TCC" and when I refuse, I'm told I'm not doing it right. However, if I chose to do so, I'd be called a noob.

    Building a OHKO build is easy, being a balanced and stylish mage is difficult.
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:20 pm

    Magic isn't fun to play against.

    It feels like an annoying game of "monkey in the middle", where you are just running around trying to get at somebody. Sword vs sword has rhythm, elegance, and places both players against each others skills more than equipment/spell choosing.
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Kerberos-013 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:07 pm

    Love Mages. GMB plus my armor completely neutralizes them. Most don't realize what is happening and just spam away. When one finally gets a kill on me I don't care. Its not easy for them, I usually carry 2-4 casts of GMB.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:08 pm

    Kerberos-013 wrote:Love Mages. GMB plus my armor completely neutralizes them. Most don't realize what is happening and just spam away. When one finally gets a kill on me I don't care. Its not easy for them, I usually carry 2-4 casts of GMB.

    GMB IS OP!!! lol
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:10 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    Kerberos-013 wrote:Love Mages. GMB plus my armor completely neutralizes them. Most don't realize what is happening and just spam away. When one finally gets a kill on me I don't care. Its not easy for them, I usually carry 2-4 casts of GMB.

    GMB IS OP!!! lol
    EVERYTHING IS OP FOR YOU PEOPLE.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:14 pm

    Shindori wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:
    Kerberos-013 wrote:Love Mages. GMB plus my armor completely neutralizes them. Most don't realize what is happening and just spam away. When one finally gets a kill on me I don't care. Its not easy for them, I usually carry 2-4 casts of GMB.

    GMB IS OP!!! lol
    EVERYTHING IS OP FOR YOU PEOPLE.

    FUNNY VIDS ARE OP! lol
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:16 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    Shindori wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:
    Kerberos-013 wrote:Love Mages. GMB plus my armor completely neutralizes them. Most don't realize what is happening and just spam away. When one finally gets a kill on me I don't care. Its not easy for them, I usually carry 2-4 casts of GMB.

    GMB IS OP!!! lol
    EVERYTHING IS OP FOR YOU PEOPLE.

    FUNNY VIDS ARE OP! lol


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Kerberos-013 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:24 pm



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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:28 pm

    Kerberos-013 wrote:
    god, i wanna play this so bad


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:29 pm

    Shindori wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:
    Kerberos-013 wrote:Love Mages. GMB plus my armor completely neutralizes them. Most don't realize what is happening and just spam away. When one finally gets a kill on me I don't care. Its not easy for them, I usually carry 2-4 casts of GMB.

    GMB IS OP!!! lol
    EVERYTHING IS OP FOR YOU PEOPLE.

    What film is this from, it's *** hilarious


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:32 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Shindori wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:
    Kerberos-013 wrote:Love Mages. GMB plus my armor completely neutralizes them. Most don't realize what is happening and just spam away. When one finally gets a kill on me I don't care. Its not easy for them, I usually carry 2-4 casts of GMB.

    GMB IS OP!!! lol
    EVERYTHING IS OP FOR YOU PEOPLE.

    What film is this from, it's *** hilarious
    no clue whatsoever xD


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

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