Mages: Why the hate?

    Share
    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Rynn on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:46 pm

    Animaaal wrote:I think all the "one hit kill" youtube vids are dragonbros using strength weapons though....
    >Streaming
    >Cast Power Within
    >Slam someone for 1300 damage with great combustion.

    If people were trying, a mage would get 1 hit kills too.
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Carphil on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:47 pm

    A melee glass cannon can achieve more damage than a magic glass cannon, but then you lack range, except if you're using the pike.

    Personal preferece. magic is much more reliable for high damage at lower levels



    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:

    Animaaal
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3419
    Reputation : 175
    Join date : 2013-01-17

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:52 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:I think all the "one hit kill" youtube vids are dragonbros using strength weapons though....
    >Streaming
    >Cast Power Within
    >Slam someone for 1300 damage with great combustion.

    If people were trying, a mage would get 1 hit kills too.

    1300 is nothing to scoff at, I'm just saying the monster numbers aren't coming from castings outside of buffs.

    I do think some ways of casting are a little cheap, but they are just as cheap as certain other playstyles.

    Casting is not where the OHKOs are, they are in the Dragon Covenant and Strength weapons.
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:53 pm

    Lets be honest, any old person can get anything to one shot people, that points fairly moot.

    The thing people need to realise is that the reason magic is so powerful is the fact it's limited casts. Once it's gone, it's gone. However any giant weapon you can swing and get anywhere between 500-800 damage it not seen as over powered?s

    You gotta remember also the balancing isn't done for PvP. People always relate balancing back to PvP. The game isn't about PvP it's about PvE and for mages to be any good you need those buff items and maybe you can have a pure caster if you're playing your cards right.

    If you ask me, is magic overpowered? Hell no. If you had to go 10 fights straight in PvP to determine which build was the best, what kinda of build wins? The answer is obvious, and it's not the mage. Magic only becomes over powered when people use it to dual, then go back to bonfire, come back. In extended PvP without breaks, it's nigh on useless after 2-3 fights against good opponents.


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    NPCWhiteMage
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 366
    Reputation : 11
    Join date : 2012-06-13
    Age : 26
    Location : Chamber of the Princess, Anor Londo

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:56 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Lets be honest, any old person can get anything to one shot people, that points fairly moot.

    The thing people need to realise is that the reason magic is so powerful is the fact it's limited casts. Once it's gone, it's gone. However any giant weapon you can swing and get anywhere between 500-800 damage it not seen as over powered?s

    You gotta remember also the balancing isn't done for PvP. People always relate balancing back to PvP. The game isn't about PvP it's about PvE and for mages to be any good you need those buff items and maybe you can have a pure caster if you're playing your cards right.

    If you ask me, is magic overpowered? Hell no. If you had to go 10 fights straight in PvP to determine which build was the best, what kinda of build wins? The answer is obvious, and it's not the mage. Magic only becomes over powered when people use it to dual, then go back to bonfire, come back. In extended PvP without breaks, it's nigh on useless after 2-3 fights against good opponents.
    I love you.


    _________________

    On the topic of Glitching in PvP:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Don't be impressed by something like that Gazman. You got cheated out of your online gaming experience by an unscrupulous game exploiter. You didn't get "owned," you were robbed, there is a distinct difference.

    XBL Gamertag: SilentWingsXIII (GOLD)
    XBL Gamertag 2: NPC White Mage (SILVER)
    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Rynn on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:58 pm

    In PvE they have still failed. If I can make combustion do 600 damage a cast, when i get 32 per rest at the bonfire, I can kill enough enemies while spamming it to go from bonfire to bonfire safely. I'd still have Great Fireball and Great Combustion for bosses, please keep that in mind.
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:03 pm

    Rynn wrote:In PvE they have still failed. If I can make combustion do 600 damage a cast, when i get 32 per rest at the bonfire, I can kill enough enemies while spamming it to go from bonfire to bonfire safely. I'd still have Great Fireball and Great Combustion for bosses, please keep that in mind.

    So a guy puts all his stats and souls into making a good pyro flame and his equipment is tailor made around pure casting pyro, its not fair they can go through the level using the pyro, then the guy who's made his build around a strength weapon goes through hitting just as much without fear of running out is okay?

    That's perfectly fine in my book. Souls is simply using what you got to get from A to B. If they method works then it's good. Every ability and weapon is a tool at your disposal. Choose whichever you want, but if someone chooses a different tool thats better in some places than others, then complain about it's strengths then it's just a bit silly.

    I agree though, pyro is OP considering how easy it is to farm souls, and considering the low cost of upgrading a pyro flame. I've always been one who's said that to even it up pyro should use stamina to cast, but that's for the next game. All in all though, it's just a different method of dealing damage. Others do far more damage over a longer time, just different pros and cons to the methods you prefer to deal damage with


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!

    Animaaal
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3419
    Reputation : 175
    Join date : 2013-01-17

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:06 pm

    And into the link it shall go... :weap-enchanted:
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:07 pm

    That's a good summary Serious

    avatar
    Soris Ice Goldwing
    Lordvessel
    Lordvessel

    Posts : 7540
    Reputation : 74
    Join date : 2012-12-07
    Age : 22
    Location : Here, there, nowhere

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:09 pm

    Animaaal wrote:And into the link it shall go...
    If you talk about the magic buffs, I say conserve them till needed, it is better to not waste those for any unneeded situation.


    _________________

    Animaaal
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3419
    Reputation : 175
    Join date : 2013-01-17

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:12 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:And into the link it shall go...
    If you talk about the magic buffs, I say conserve them till needed, it is better to not waste those for any unneeded situation.

    No lol. I have a thread dedicated to mages. One of the sections in it is called "For Ego Links".

    Its a section I put together to give mages a laugh while reading about all the hate.

    Seriously, some of these discussions get pretty hilarious. lol

    Marino.
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3306
    Reputation : 46
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Age : 24

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Marino. on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:21 pm

    Shindori wrote:same damage output can be done with a buffed ultra greatsword. Max out the damage, buff it, use power within, red tearstone ring, hornet ring, and land a nice little riposte or backstab.

    That would put you within OHKO range .
    You can buff Magic with the Dusk Crown, the Dragon Ring and the Red Tearsstone to get more Damage .
    Your point is invalid .


    Thing with Magic is that you just have to press one button and deal great damage and if you add lag into it you have something simliar to Phantom hits and lagstabs which are annoying.
    Mages are boring to fight as and fight against and the fact that Magic is so powerful means that Mages win more often than not .

    Melee is more fun to play as since you have more variety in tactics and more defensive options .

    It's simple really . People want to have fun and getting OHKOed or having to constantly dodge Soul spears/Dark Bead isn't fun at all .
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Carphil on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:34 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:And into the link it shall go...
    If you talk about the magic buffs, I say conserve them till needed, it is better to not waste those for any unneeded situation.

    No lol. I have a thread dedicated to mages. One of the sections in it is called "For Ego Links".

    Its a section I put together to give mages a laugh while reading about all the hate.

    Seriously, some of these discussions get pretty hilarious. lol

    not only funny but pretty good to learn about the mechanics and become a better PVPer


    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:
    avatar
    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11501
    Reputation : 327
    Join date : 2012-04-18
    Age : 28
    Location : WPB, Florida

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:40 pm

    I'll say this: I have no plans to delete my mage builds. twisted

    And sorry if I have 0 sympathy for the forest gankers that get to eat all of my Dark Beads. In that instance I'm not really looking to provide my opponent with a fun fight.

    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:42 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I'll say this: I have no plans to delete my mage builds. twisted

    And sorry if I have 0 sympathy for the forest gankers that get to eat all of my Dark Beads. In that instance I'm not really looking to provide my opponent with a fun fight.

    A fun example by rosie:



    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Rynn on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:43 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Rynn wrote:In PvE they have still failed. If I can make combustion do 600 damage a cast, when i get 32 per rest at the bonfire, I can kill enough enemies while spamming it to go from bonfire to bonfire safely. I'd still have Great Fireball and Great Combustion for bosses, please keep that in mind.

    So a guy puts all his stats and souls into making a good pyro flame and his equipment is tailor made around pure casting pyro, its not fair they can go through the level using the pyro, then the guy who's made his build around a strength weapon goes through hitting just as much without fear of running out is okay?

    That's perfectly fine in my book. Souls is simply using what you got to get from A to B. If they method works then it's good. Every ability and weapon is a tool at your disposal. Choose whichever you want, but if someone chooses a different tool thats better in some places than others, then complain about it's strengths then it's just a bit silly.

    I agree though, pyro is OP considering how easy it is to farm souls, and considering the low cost of upgrading a pyro flame. I've always been one who's said that to even it up pyro should use stamina to cast, but that's for the next game. All in all though, it's just a different method of dealing damage. Others do far more damage over a longer time, just different pros and cons to the methods you prefer to deal damage with
    I picked pyromancy for that example for a reason. The stats required to have a pyromancer that has enough spells to wipe the entire level, and still kill the boss, is level 39. Level 50 if you want some vitality for mistakes.
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:48 pm

    Rynn, I'd also like to remind you that while that may be the case, balancing is not made for people like us, those who know every last stat, item location and exact levels done to the bone.

    No regular souls player is gonna be able to finish the game solo with an SL39 pure pyro caster. The level of skill requiring to do so is much higher than your average player, and really thats why i gotta say your point isn't very valid.

    For the purposes of anyone stumbling through the game, pyro is helpful but not game breaking. If you're good enough to go through the game at SL39 with pure pyro making 0 errors then really it doesn't matter what kind of build you use, it's still gonna be easy for you.


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11501
    Reputation : 327
    Join date : 2012-04-18
    Age : 28
    Location : WPB, Florida

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:49 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I'll say this: I have no plans to delete my mage builds. twisted

    And sorry if I have 0 sympathy for the forest gankers that get to eat all of my Dark Beads. In that instance I'm not really looking to provide my opponent with a fun fight.

    A fun example by rosie:


    Yeah, I've seen it. Entertaining as is the norm out of a Rosie video.

    Anyway this is my Forest Hunter build (roughly): https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=302601814542664265

    Bring it! What?!?

    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:52 pm

    That build is monstrous.

    Just goes to show how intense an SL200 build can really be!


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:53 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:And into the link it shall go...
    If you talk about the magic buffs, I say conserve them till needed, it is better to not waste those for any unneeded situation.

    No lol. I have a thread dedicated to mages. One of the sections in it is called "For Ego Links".

    Its a section I put together to give mages a laugh while reading about all the hate.

    Seriously, some of these discussions get pretty hilarious. lol

    where is this thread?


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!

    Animaaal
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3419
    Reputation : 175
    Join date : 2013-01-17

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:55 pm

    Carphil wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:
    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:And into the link it shall go...
    If you talk about the magic buffs, I say conserve them till needed, it is better to not waste those for any unneeded situation.

    No lol. I have a thread dedicated to mages. One of the sections in it is called "For Ego Links".

    Its a section I put together to give mages a laugh while reading about all the hate.

    Seriously, some of these discussions get pretty hilarious. lol

    not only funny but pretty good to learn about the mechanics and become a better PVPer

    Wow if that statment is directed at my thread then thanks! Bow

    If its meant generally for threads like this, then I couldn't agree more. I've been casting forever now, and I always pick up something new from threads like this.

    @Serious

    Its "For tha love of Castings". I really dont want to promote it in here though. It feels a little disrespectful. I hope no one takes it that way.
    avatar
    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11501
    Reputation : 327
    Join date : 2012-04-18
    Age : 28
    Location : WPB, Florida

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:56 pm


    avatar
    Soris Ice Goldwing
    Lordvessel
    Lordvessel

    Posts : 7540
    Reputation : 74
    Join date : 2012-12-07
    Age : 22
    Location : Here, there, nowhere

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:57 pm

    Okay Pendant...that is pretty scary for a mage. I seen a lot but chances are there is a 25% I win every fight and 75% I loss every fight. Though what's with the empty att slot?


    _________________
    avatar
    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11501
    Reputation : 327
    Join date : 2012-04-18
    Age : 28
    Location : WPB, Florida

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:58 pm

    It's another Dark Bead. I guess, for whatever reason, it didn't save.

    avatar
    EeAyEss
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1622
    Reputation : 47
    Join date : 2012-05-14
    Age : 21
    Location : In front of my Calculus textbook.

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by EeAyEss on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:40 pm

    I will put it simply:

    I HATE ALL OFFENSIVE MAGIC. I just do.

    If anyone has seen my anti-thesis to magic build, then you know my stance.

    Spoiler:
    Note, offensive. Supporting magic/defensive magic, I will use. Typically because it cancels offensive magic.

    To talk about those who say magic is cheap, spamming is cheap. But you can also spam katanas, spears, zweihanders... the list goes on. Admittedly, magic spam can either be:

    a. A godsend for anyone with competent dodging skills and no lag, or
    b. A gift from @#!*% for anyone with lag.

    So, in my opinion, spam magic is worse than spam melee. About VoS, it'sa range is limited. In certain cases, they will just fire outside of VoS's range.

    About good magic shields: A CSS could do upwards of 1k points of damage, blocking does 80% most cases, therefore 200 points of damage is taken. 200. A good amount. I concede GMB, but what competent mage (who isn't cosplaying) doesn't pack pyromancy? *Which can also hit for upwards of 1k points of damage*


    _________________

    Sponsored content

    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:07 am