Mages: Why the hate?

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    Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:25 pm

    I see people complain about mages all the time. Oh, magic is super OP. Oh, it'sso cheap. Oh, it's so noobish. I think they can shove it up their ***. I mean.. same damage output can be done with a buffed ultra greatsword. Max out the damage, buff it, use power within, red tearstone ring, hornet ring, and land a nice little riposte or backstab.. or ****, even just doing a heavy attack and landing it and bam, one hit kill. So, why the hate towardsmages? what we do with magic can also be done with melee. Not that I only have ONE mage character, the rest are melee.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Bloodpact91 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:30 pm

    People just like to find ways to complain , that's how they find satisfaction i guess.Like you said , magic hurts , but so does melee. I have a mage , i can 1 shot alot of people , that is if i can hit them , magic is easy to dodge.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:31 pm

    Because magic takes no skill to use.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:39 pm

    @Blood: Exactly. Hell, magic is harder to use since it's so easy to dodge. It's like trying to land a fire tempest with someone coming from behind to attack you and backstasb you. Half the time, you miss.

    @Wollyhop: dude.. Melee takes no skill. Block, parry, bam. Slash slash slash. It's not that complicated aside from a few technicalities. Magic is all about timing. 1 second too early or too late means death.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:42 pm

    Also, downvoting me for my opinion? really mature, guys.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:43 pm

    Compared to mele vs mele theres no where near as much skill. Classic example is a mage backing up spamming spells and you try to get near them. And no I didn't down-vote you


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by befowler on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:46 pm

    I don't know who downvoted you either, but my guess would be it wasn't for your opinion, but how you presented it. Needless swearing and the like detracts from what otherwise might be an interesting discussion.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Shindori on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:50 pm

    Well im guessing it was probably jester since he seems rather short fused at the fact i even use magic. He's been being very immature lately.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by SpecialNewb on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:54 pm

    Abyss Magic is OP. Regular magic not cheap because of the aiming issue. Even so I use Abyss magic on my mage builds and I don't mind if someone uses it against me. Though if they spam DB/Pursuers my response is to mock them. As a mage I do most of my fighting with the MLGS.
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by sonofartorias on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:56 pm

    i will take mages over those guy's who need three people and giants armor just to win in a pvp fight


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:57 pm

    I don't mid a bit of magic here and there but not exclusively using magic in pvp


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:59 pm

    I guess it's because people think mages have no skill, which is quite funny but still, let them hate, you're having fun happy


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by sonofartorias on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:08 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:I guess it's because people think mages have no skill, which is quite funny but still, let them hate, you're having fun happy
    those same type of people are probably the same type i keep running into right now


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:08 pm

    My problem with magic is:

    Spells are OP and spammable

    Lag can make dodging spells impossible.

    From personal experience all the cheapest people and gankers tend to be magicians.

    It doesn't take any skill to use magic.


    And did you just imply that parrying takes no skill? You're kidding right?

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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:14 pm

    I'll tell you what though, more than most of the mages I seen knocking about, I've always thought I could be putting me socks on at the same time as playing like they were


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:17 pm

    I'm sorry lunar, but being so presumptuous and simply stating magic requires no skill and most cheap people are magicians is rather unbecoming of anyone on this forum.

    -1


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by sonofartorias on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:18 pm

    LunarFog wrote:My problem with magic is:

    Spells are OP and spammable

    Lag can make dodging spells impossible.

    From personal experience all the cheapest people and gankers tend to be magicians.

    It doesn't take any skill to use magic.


    And did you just imply that parrying takes no skill? You're kidding right?
    most of the gankers i have run into since starting up again have been using large weapons


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:30 pm

    I love it...

    Dare they ney say?!?! Dare they play?!?! I say they not dare and stay away.

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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:30 pm

    LunarFog wrote:My problem with magic is:

    Spells are OP and spammable

    Lag can make dodging spells impossible.

    From personal experience all the cheapest people and gankers tend to be magicians.

    It doesn't take any skill to use magic.


    And did you just imply that parrying takes no skill? You're kidding right?
    ^My general issues in red nowadays. Before the whole issue with dark magic can to light, I held a higher level of respect for mages since dodging them without lag was the biggest weakness to them and the spells were not crazy strong by themselves, as well as the fact that I thought you have a lot of practice if you host the forest alone as a mage. However I do believe that magic still does require some degree of skill as long as it's not dark bead. With that "shotgun" spell a mage doesn't have to do much but wait there and spam it when you get close. Of course I don't think every mage is cheap and pursuers are starting to sound fun when I dodge them so I don't have an issue with that.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by alchemydesign on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:31 pm

    Ahahahaha, magic being OP and cheap and spamable is the funniest thing I've ever read, I've been playing a straight mage lately with the only melee weapon being a +5 Enchanted Bandit's Knife and I can tell ya in the time it takes me to cast a CHSM I'm being BSed...by the time my CSS has been cast I've already been rushed and smacked in the face...

    That's not to say I haven't had my victories, but like others, the cheapest thing in PVP are those who think it takes 2-3 people to camp the summon spawn in giants/family masks to Chain BS...and then taunt and send the retarded U MAD BRO messages.
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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:35 pm

    Magic vs melee

    One requires that you push a button at the right time

    The other requires that you hit a button at the right time.

    Although, a parry/riposte is two buttons.

    But then again, I've seen mages use combo concepts too.

    On the other hand, melee requires exact footwork.

    While mages need spacing. Based on footwork




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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:37 pm

    Well said skare, both use the same general concepts of PvP, just in different ways.


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    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:37 pm

    This is an age old discussion. I don't know if any of you have ever played DnD but this argument has plagued mankind since the idea of mages and warriors.

    So allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.

    MAGES

    Dark Souls is a game of skill and playing Smarter not Harder.

    This is where the Mage archtype falls into play. Mages are intellects who spend little to no time doing physical fighting, therefore they need to stay at a range and cast spells. Its their job. Getting mad at a mage for backing away is like getting mad at a McDonalds (Or other employee of whatever business you prefer) employee for taking your order using a computer. Its their job. Now I'm not saying there aren't overpowered soceries (Pursuers being the one that comes to mind), but that is to be expected since everything has its handful of over powered nukes. All I'm saying is that it is a Mage's job to stay out of close combat.

    Now this is where the "No Skill" argument comes into play a lot.

    "It doesn't take skill to press a button and launch a spell." -- You are correct, pressing a button doesn't take skill, but what does take skill is reading your opponent. If I case a soul spear, but you dodge it, then crap, that's one less resource I have at my disposal. This is true for ALL SPELL. None of the spells in Dark Souls are unavoidable, and Dodge rolling (Or a good magic def) is ineffably important to stone-walling a Spellcaster, because if they can't hit you, then what more are they than a bunch of pretty lights? Anyone who has played DkS can dodge a spell, and for a spell caster that makes life hard. So yes, spellcasting does require a bit of skill. When do I cast soul mass as opposed to soul spear? Its not only an INT based class, but you actually need intellegence to play it.

    WARRIORS

    Warriors are all about getting in close and rearranging your opponents anatomy...as you can see there is a little bit here...some over there...I think that is an arm hanging on that banister...

    Speed and Power. Warrior builds are as complex and varied as the spellcaster's spells (This includes Pyromaners). You can have an armored tank that can't be toppled, or a lithe assassin whose speed is unparalleled. Maybe you want a breserker that rushes in and starts swinging, or what about a tactician that utilizaes Parries and Ripostes as often as they blink? All of these play styles require skills and a mindset that is different from the above archtype.

    "You are nothing but a mindless spammer that attacks and dodges! [insert explicitive here]"

    This maybe true, but mindless is far from the truth. Warriors have to watch out for their opponents movements. The tiniest movement can turn the tide of a conflict. Was he moving towards me in the hopes to set up a backstab? Is he turtling because he thinks he can drop his guard and parry me? Oh god, a pelvic thrust, it could be Wrath Of The Gods. The list of examples go on and on and on and on.

    Now, in Dark Souls a warriors TRUE strength doesn't come from his stats, they come from his weapons and armor and equipment. While that may be true for mages, it isn't as imporatant as a Warrior. A +5 Lightning weapon or +15 Weapon can easy reduce a Sorcerer to nothing in a matter of moments. The skill is dodging the spells.

    So good people of Dark Souls, each archtype has its areas where skill is needed and where OP items or spells come into play. Truth is, Dark Souls offers you all the tools you need to match your opponent. So don't complain your opponent is using magic, instead prepare for it. There are drawbacks to whatever path you choose, and if you are losing consitantly to the same tactics, maybe you should change yours instead of getting mad at the other player.

    TL;DR
    Quit crying.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:40 pm

    The short version?

    People don't like getting instagibbed by Dark Bead and Pursuers, so when it happens they get upset and complain.


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:43 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:I'm sorry lunar, but being so presumptuous and simply stating magic requires no skill and most cheap people are magicians is rather unbecoming of anyone on this forum.

    -1

    You should know by now that I'm not the most becoming person in these forums.

    Feel free to rip me if I'm wrong but a pure caster has 2 BUFFS they can stack and use at any time with no detrimental effects(Crown of Dusk + Bellowing Dragoncrest ring/Ring of Sun's firstborn), and the only buffs available to melee users are the hornet ring and Leo ring which only work under special circumstances.

    Magicians also have the advantage of CHIP DAMAGE. Even with shields designed specifically for blocking magic I've had over 40% of my health chipped away.

    LAG can make dodging spells tricky if not impossible. I've dodged 5 feet away from a soul spear and still took damage, and I've blocked a soul spear, put down my shield and then took the damage.

    The RANGE AND POWER of spells are also pretty ridiculous. A standard soul spear can do over 1000 damage, which is not only stronger than an ultra greatsword and way faster, but it can be shot from a distance and quickly.

    Magicians have theSAFETY of range and regaining stamina while casting spells, always putting them at a stamina advantage compared to a melee user.

    Oh, and all of their most dangerous spells(WoG, Dark Bead, Crystal Soul spear) are easily SPAMMABLE.


    So with advantages in buffs, chip damage, lag, range, power, safety, and spam, tell me how it takes as much skill to be a mage opposed to a melee user?


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    Re: Mages: Why the hate?

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