Magic spammers? Really?

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    Nybbles
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Nybbles on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 pm

    magic is just too easy to exploit and for the most part magic isn't used fairly. this makes mages particularly easy to hate.

    i believe that everyone knows that magic is easy to dodge, that makes me pretty sure that spell spammers are relying on lag or a lucky hit to score the win. with the OHKO power of dark bead, the glitchy as *** pursuers and (to a lesser extent) crystal soul spear, it's obvious what the spells of choice are going to be for these players. so whenever i see those spells being used i will make a snap judgement (fairly or not) and call them a tryhard looking for a cheap win because that's the impression they leave with me. i mean really, no one can tell me it's not a cheap, exploitable tactic that requires very little investment and turns both PVP and PVE into a joke. that's why i don't like it or the players that rely on it.

    i don't want everyone to bend to what i think is fair, but i do suspect that the other player knows when they are doing something that could be considered as more of an exploit than something that is a fair tactic.

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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Animaaal on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:52 pm

    It appears the hate went from backstabs to magic...interesting. :suspect:
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by MrMcClean on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:15 pm

    I still hate backstabs and parrying and wrath of god and buffs and fog ring and hornet ring and pursues and gold tracer and fire surge and.......


    Last edited by MrMcClean on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Animaaal on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:41 pm

    MrMcClean wrote:...I still hate backstabs and parrying and wrath of god and buffs and fog ring and hornet ring and pursues and gold tracer and fire surge and.......

    lol QUOTING IS OP!!!!
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Brigade on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:03 pm

    Why all these qq threads about magic? It's making my BKGA + Hornet ring build feel unloved.

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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Nybbles on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:26 pm

    Animaaal wrote:It appears the hate went from backstabs to magic...interesting. :suspect:

    i feel the same way about backstab fishers, but there are less of them around now that dark bead has made everything so much easier for them.
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Thundergrip on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:01 pm

    I've ran into the same thing. My solution is to always run with the Crest shield, and keep six or so GMB casts on me. It's a pain, but it's good to know that I've got insurance if I run into a spammer.
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Paragon on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:14 pm

    Thundergrip wrote:I've ran into the same thing. My solution is to always run with the Crest shield, and keep six or so GMB casts on me. It's a pain, but it's good to know that I've got insurance if I run into a spammer.

    CREST SHIELD!!!
    One of my favorite items in the game. It makes fighting mages and clerics easy as crap most of the time.


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Lancelot on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:17 pm

    When recently using my +15 Great Scythe, which I always two-hand and never stop sprinting during PvP, I've found it incredibly easy to dodge and counter magic users.


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by mugenis4real on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:39 pm

    luvz2fight wrote:
    Thundergrip wrote:I've ran into the same thing. My solution is to always run with the Crest shield, and keep six or so GMB casts on me. It's a pain, but it's good to know that I've got insurance if I run into a spammer.

    CREST SHIELD!!!
    One of my favorite items in the game. It makes fighting mages and clerics easy as crap most of the time.
    BLACK FLAME!!!
    One of my favorite spells in the game. It makes fighting Crest Shield easy as crap most of the time. :mask-averice:
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by gmwdim on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:09 am

    As various wise forum members have said, the only way to not be hated is to just stand there and die. If you can kill someone with it, people will complain about it and call you cheap for using it.

    People get called cheap for dark bead, pursuers, hcsm, css, wog, twop, great combustion, black flame, hornet ring, havel's armor, giant's armor, crown of dusk, mask of father, mask of mother, mask of child, healing, ganking, using environment against gankers, gravelord (great)sword dance, fire/chaos storm, poison, bleed, toxic, dragonslayer greatbow, kicking, running, turtling, hiding, rolling, backflipping, parrying, chameleon, greataxes, greatswords, halberds, weapon buffs, lloyd's talisman, dung pies, griefing, anti-griefing, acts of god, and lag.


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Rynn on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:26 am

    gmwdim wrote:As various wise forum members have said, the only way to not be hated is to just stand there and die. If you can kill someone with it, people will complain about it and call you cheap for using it.

    People get called cheap for dark bead, pursuers, hcsm, css, wog, twop, great combustion, black flame, hornet ring, havel's armor, giant's armor, crown of dusk, mask of father, mask of mother, mask of child, healing, ganking, using environment against gankers, gravelord (great)sword dance, fire/chaos storm, poison, bleed, toxic, dragonslayer greatbow, kicking, running, turtling, hiding, rolling, backflipping, parrying, chameleon, greataxes, greatswords, halberds, weapon buffs, lloyd's talisman, dung pies, griefing, anti-griefing, acts of god, and lag.
    So killing them with fire whip is ok?
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by gmwdim on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:27 am

    The list is not comprehensive. There are other ways to kill people and thus be hated.


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Sneezer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:15 am

    I don't think I could ever hate a guy would killed me with a Chaos broken sword hilt.
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:21 am

    Rynn wrote:
    gmwdim wrote:As various wise forum members have said, the only way to not be hated is to just stand there and die. If you can kill someone with it, people will complain about it and call you cheap for using it.

    People get called cheap for dark bead, pursuers, hcsm, css, wog, twop, great combustion, black flame, hornet ring, havel's armor, giant's armor, crown of dusk, mask of father, mask of mother, mask of child, healing, ganking, using environment against gankers, gravelord (great)sword dance, fire/chaos storm, poison, bleed, toxic, dragonslayer greatbow, kicking, running, turtling, hiding, rolling, backflipping, parrying, chameleon, greataxes, greatswords, halberds, weapon buffs, lloyd's talisman, dung pies, griefing, anti-griefing, acts of god, and lag.
    So killing them with fire whip is ok?

    Do you really need to use an elemental upgrade on a weapon you can't parry? :evil: What's next fire notched whip???? :suspect:

    ...

    J/K lol!


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:49 am

    I reject your premise OP. Attack magic is for attacking. The builds that do that have to sacrifice durability/poise to manage it. (excluding the 16 int db spam) This means that, if at all possible, they should kill you with magic because they're disadvantaged in melee combat.

    Essentially, deal with it.


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Rynn on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:00 am

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:
    Rynn wrote:
    gmwdim wrote:As various wise forum members have said, the only way to not be hated is to just stand there and die. If you can kill someone with it, people will complain about it and call you cheap for using it.

    People get called cheap for dark bead, pursuers, hcsm, css, wog, twop, great combustion, black flame, hornet ring, havel's armor, giant's armor, crown of dusk, mask of father, mask of mother, mask of child, healing, ganking, using environment against gankers, gravelord (great)sword dance, fire/chaos storm, poison, bleed, toxic, dragonslayer greatbow, kicking, running, turtling, hiding, rolling, backflipping, parrying, chameleon, greataxes, greatswords, halberds, weapon buffs, lloyd's talisman, dung pies, griefing, anti-griefing, acts of god, and lag.
    So killing them with fire whip is ok?

    Do you really need to use an elemental upgrade on a weapon you can't parry? :evil: What's next fire notched whip???? :suspect:

    ...

    J/K lol!
    Fire Whip is a pyromancy.

    Also, what Forum Pirate said. my pyromancer only has a -lightning dagger- equipped, if I can't get you with pyromancy, I've got a major problem.
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:20 am

    I've got a pyro with a rapier and a sorcerer with the mlbh, but neither can buff and neither break 1000 hp or 350 defense. Melee combat is a last resort.

    most of the time 1 hit from a katana is around 1/3rd of my hp. A single mlgs running r1-r1 combo can prove fatal.


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:52 am

    Rynn wrote:Fire Whip is a pyromancy.

    Also, what Forum Pirate said. my pyromancer only has a -lightning dagger- equipped, if I can't get you with pyromancy, I've got a major problem.

    Oh, hello! Look Skyward But, no that's not ok... I think that's why I didn't read it right. There's no way fire whip is ok; as you said it's pyromancy. Only the firestorms are ok, because they just get you BS'd, unless you do it around a corner -- then again not ok. silly


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Rynn on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:58 am

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:
    Rynn wrote:Fire Whip is a pyromancy.

    Also, what Forum Pirate said. my pyromancer only has a -lightning dagger- equipped, if I can't get you with pyromancy, I've got a major problem.
    Only the firestorms are ok, because they just get you BS'd
    ...Oh how i pity your ignorance <3
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:34 am

    Rynn wrote:
    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:
    Rynn wrote:Fire Whip is a pyromancy.

    Also, what Forum Pirate said. my pyromancer only has a -lightning dagger- equipped, if I can't get you with pyromancy, I've got a major problem.
    Only the firestorms are ok, because they just get you BS'd
    ...Oh how i pity your ignorance <3

    You are joking, right?


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:37 am

    On a serious note, I used to feel bad about stun-locking. But, not even close now. I will gladly stun-lock and get everything I can out of it. The people who have 0 poise fast-roll and ninja flip through all my attacks. So, when I hit them, it should count. If you have moderate poise and still get stun-locked then you either got hit by a ridiculously large weapon you should have avoided or screwed up and got hit more than once.

    On the other hand I used to not have a problem with toggle escapes. After some clown toggle escaped a stun-lock, immediately parried me and ended up winning a fight I was dominating, I changed my mind.* To me that's where the line is, doing something that's not a part of the game to gain an advantage. Toggle escaping might seem harmless, but it's not part of the game. And that escape/parry trick that guy pulled on me is actually way worse than BS fishing, IMO. Because even if you know you're exploiting lag at least BS'ing is a part of the game design. And to use a glitch to not only avoid damage, but to deliver a counter I could not possibly see coming is despicable. Sorry to rant on that, but it's a great example of what I feel should really draw the ire of the dark souls community.

    As far as magic goes; I think dark magic is OP. If not in damage alone, then the fact is does physical damage and just murders shield stability and poise. I know there's a lot of ways to counter, but unless you have a setup, perhaps even build to counter dark magic you have to dodge and hope you get an opening before you get lag. I blame the developers for that, though, because that actually is in the game design. I do think that people that just use dark magic over and over are pretty lame, though.

    *lag prevented me from seeing he got out -- in one frame he was stun-locked the next he was getting ready to riposte me. I took me a while to figure out wtf happened.


    Last edited by Hugh_G_Johnson on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:41 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling)


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Rynn on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:04 am

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:
    Rynn wrote:
    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:
    Rynn wrote:Fire Whip is a pyromancy.

    Also, what Forum Pirate said. my pyromancer only has a -lightning dagger- equipped, if I can't get you with pyromancy, I've got a major problem.
    Only the firestorms are ok, because they just get you BS'd
    ...Oh how i pity your ignorance <3

    You are joking, right?
    No. I'm not. Unless you're running 0 poise you can avoid getting backstabbed by casting it in the sweetspot. There is a particular range to cast this spell at where the opponent only has like 0.1 seconds to decide to run or backstab you, or they get hit if they tried to get the stab.
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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:26 am

    The toggle escape was in the last game too. To argue that its a glitch is pointless, as, to my knowledge, from has not actually stated one way or the other. Same with dead angling.

    Without the escape a buffed zweih will do about 600 damage with pw and 700 ish with dmb/slb. It will stunlock for 3 hits. Are you telling me that you actually believe that any 1 zweih hit (or murakumo, or claymore pre patch or a halberd or a freaking reinforced club) should be fatal by proxy as it initiates a combo that is otherwise inescapable?

    You got parried, you had it coming. DOA, MvC, Burst limit, and many more have mechanics similar to the toggle escape to prevent insta-kill stun chains, and the toggle escape (intentional or not) is the souls version at the moment. Be glad its there too, or the zweihander/mura would be the only weapons anyone ever used.

    Fire tempest is a devious way to Ohko anyone who can be baited or caught off guard. Beware the crossbow though. The headshot is not a fun surprise mid cast.


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    Re: Magic spammers? Really?

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:30 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Fire tempest is a devious way to Ohko anyone who can be baited or caught off guard. Beware the crossbow though. The headshot is not a fun surprise mid cast.
    Bow works the same way. Just lock on and shoot and you got a guaranteed headshot. Damage + interrupts casting. cheers


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