a horrific realization

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    a horrific realization

    Post by EarthScraper on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:45 pm

    Today i killed the Bed of Chaos after my 5th damn attempt, and noticed something...horrific. to kill the bed of chaos, you need to go down a tunnel to get to the weak point, fair enough. but i looked closer (really wish i didn't), and noticed that the 'weak point' is a small, living thing. the tunnel, you go down is the, well, uterus of a women, and the little creature is a fetus of a chaos demon. The bed of chaos is the source of all demons, a.k.a The Mother

    You abort a baby. Please say i'm wrong
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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Rynn on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:49 pm

    I think you're looking into things too deeply.
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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by EarthScraper on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:00 pm

    i think i need help


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:04 pm

    Oh Gosh, yes ik what you're talking about. It's really creepy. :suspect:


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Demon Slayer on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:21 pm

    so i have been killing a fetus?

    i feel bad sad sad sad


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:32 pm

    It's more likely the transformed Witch but that is a creepy theory. On par with plague and skelly babies

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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by GrinTwist on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:40 pm

    I don't think that's the case, I don't think it would make much sense that BoC would die if you killed it's fetus, it would suffer damage of course but it wouldn't die automatically. If anything what you hit is an oddly shaped heart.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:05 am

    What if the soul the Witch used was the soul of the fetus inside her womb?
    She wanted to create a new Flame inside herself, to make her power limitless and greater than the other Lords.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Hue on Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:07 am

    EarthScraper wrote:Today i killed the Bed of Chaos after my 5th damn attempt, and noticed something...horrific. to kill the bed of chaos, you need to go down a tunnel to get to the weak point, fair enough. but i looked closer (really wish i didn't), and noticed that the 'weak point' is a small, living thing. the tunnel, you go down is the, well, uterus of a women, and the little creature is a fetus of a chaos demon. The bed of chaos is the source of all demons, a.k.a The Mother

    You abort a baby. Please say i'm wrong

    holy **** how come i never had this idea before?


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Acarnatia on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:55 am

    I think the mass of wood and fire that attacks the Chosen Undead from above the Bed of Chaos is just an extension of the BoC-a puppet for it, not another creature. On the other hand, the story of the first Earthbound game can be said to have an abortion themed-kill regarding the final boss, and game creators have been using a lot of baby monsters in recent years.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:24 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:I think the mass of wood and fire that attacks the Chosen Undead from above the Bed of Chaos is just an extension of the BoC-a puppet for it, not another creature. On the other hand, the story of the first Earthbound game can be said to have an abortion themed-kill regarding the final boss, and game creators have been using a lot of baby monsters in recent years.

    I always considered the Wooden Giant creature to be the Witch, in the Intro you can clearly see she is kinda gigantic.



    This makes sense if you consider the theme of Birth and the BoC being the Mother of the Demons.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Mauvais on Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:54 pm

    well that's disturbing but it makes sense.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:04 pm

    You get the soul of the witch from killing the bug and her daughters were also tranformed into bug like things. There's no reason to think the bug is anything but the witch herself.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:14 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:You get the soul of the witch from killing the bug and her daughters were also tranformed into bug like things. There's no reason to think the bug is anything but the witch herself.

    You get ONE soul for killing FOUR Kings.
    Why can't we get One soul for killing Mommy-and-her-Baby? sad

    "Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother of all demons. This Lord Soul was found at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
    The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the First Flame from a soul, but instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire. Its power formed a bed of life which would become the source for all demons, and is more than enough to satiate the Lordvessel."


    It is not stated anywhere it is just the Soul of the Witch. Just the soul of the BoC.

    And maybe when a baby is still inside their mother's womb, they share the same soul? LOL I don't know, there isn't any clear definition on how you get your own soul in any culture afair.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Acarnatia on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:53 pm

    Except the BoC's soul isn't what is needed to satiate the Lordvessal; the LORD'S SOULS are required. As for why we only get one soul for the Four Kings, that's because the together only had part of a Lord's Soul. Actually, that description sounds more like the BoC IS the Witch of Izalith. Between the two, there is only one Lord's soul; therefore, if that soul (the Lord's Soul that we gain by killing the BoC) is the soul of both of them, they must be the same being.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Orango19 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:22 am

    IMO, it sounds more like the second part of the description is telling the origin on the Soul owner. Pretty much how they handle the 4Kings soul description on the second paragraph.

    Bequeathed Lord Soul Shard.
    "Soul of one of the Four Kings, who fell to Dark. A fragment of a Lord Souls discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
    Lord Gwyn recognized the foresight of these four great leaders of New Londo, and granted them their ranks and the fragments of a great soul. Although this is not a full Lord Soul, it can still satiate the Lord Vessel."

    Now back to the BoC Lord Soul for further analyze:

    Lord Soul.
    "Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother of all demons. This Lord Soul was found at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
    The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the First Flame from a soul, but instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire. Its power formed a bed of life which would become the source for all demons, and is more than enough to satiate the Lordvessel."

    It could be broken grammar, but the first sentence may be referring to two different beings. Why I think that is simply because it uses the world MOTHER, a feminine word. So when they get back to talking about the Witch (IF she was the sole owner of the soul) they would user "HER power formed a bed of life..." instead of "ITS power formed a..."

    Considering she is the only female with a Lord Soul, we can't be sure about what happens when a Lord gets pregnant. Does she splits her soul with her baby or whatever? She already had her other children by the time she found the Lord Soul; so the BoC could be the sole example of another life being formed inside a Lord.

    The Bug is also in a fetal position if you are gentle enough to look at it before stabbing it to death.

    ---

    The Flames started to fade. The Witch was pregnant, she saw the opportunity to create a new Flame, and also make sure she was the new Great Lord, with the strongest soul.

    To prevent other from claiming souls from her "Second Flame", she decided to use the soul of the baby inside her womb to duplicate the First Flame. Her womb would become sort of a private Kiln, with unlimited power.

    **** happened. She created a monster. The baby's power created a Bed of Life inside her womb (kinda corrupted Kiln, yeah), and also some sort of Second Flame; the Chaos Flame (source of Pyromancy). The Chaos Flame corrupted everyone in a radius, creating demons. That includes the Witch of Izalith.

    She was transformed in some sort of huge *** tree-like giant. Her branches and roots went as far as the Firelink Altar. Just to prove the extend of the BoC's power. (However it is pretty clear the Altar have Izalith architecture, so it's not a very great feat to reach there.) Oh yeah, and while she was transforming, the Baby and the Mother were connected; so if the Baby died, so would she.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Shkar on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:40 am

    I have to admit, it seems crazy, and I honestly seems so far-fetched that I couldn't see From actually intending it...

    However, there is enough diction choices that one could make a surprisingly sufficient literary analysis of it...


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Ashran on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:35 pm

    After reading this thread:



    the more i read about this game and its lore the more darker it gets.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:05 am

    I have my doubts... However, it would prove me right. I've always maintained that the BoC is a certain 4-letter word. :silent: You also have to play with two globes to gain access to the lower region...


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:25 pm

    Lots of incoming text.. I did an analysis of something simular to this please read if you're interested.



    Spoiler:
    Witch of Izalith



    In my first post I speculated that


    “If what I’ve said about the Lords Souls
    and Dark Soul reign true then this would explain why the Witch of Izalith
    attempted to recreate the first flame and why it failed. Over the passing of
    time, Gwyn and the others along with the flame started to lose their power.
    With the Dark Soul, the power to sustain/maintain, out of their reach (due to
    the splitting) she attempted to recreate the first flame which; in turn, would
    recreate the Lords Souls and the Dark Soul. This is what I believe distorted
    the “flow of time” that we read about on the white soap stone. If time already
    exists what happens if you attempt to create time again? Chaos and the
    distortion of the current time, thus creating alternative planes of existence.



    I’d like to try and use some things I’ve
    found to help support this…. Firstly, I’d like us to look at some of Qualaana’s
    dialogue.


    “… Hmmm…
    I have a favour to ask…
    My mother, the Witch of Izalith, was one of the primeval Lords*1*
    Her power came from the soul that she found near the First Flame.
    ..She focused this power to light a

    flame of her own, but she failed to control it*2*.
    The Flame of Chaos engulfed Mother
    and my sisters, and molded them into deformed creatures.

    Only I escaped, and now I am here.*3*
    But my mother and sisters have been in anguish since.
    I beseech you. Free Mother and my sisters from the Flame of Chaos*4*.

    I cannot do it myself; I lack the strength, and the bravery…
    …But you…
    I realize what I am asking. But please, free their pour souls…
    Mother's ambitions were misguided, no

    doubt, but surely a thousand years of atonement is enough**!



    1.
    I just wanted to
    put this in here. They use the word primeval a lot in this game and the fact
    that Qualaana is the only NPC that I know of that calls them this.. I thought
    it was interesting to note. She was there during the Dragon Wars/Intro etc….
    She knows exactly what happened during these times


    2.
    I always see people
    say that the Witch failed in creating her own flame but she did not. She only
    failed in controlling it. And that flame still exists! Which continues to
    distort time….


    3.
    Later in this thread I’m going to speculate
    that Gwyn and his knights never made it to the bed of Chaos and that they only
    beat back the Chaos demons back to the Ruins. I’m also going to speculate later
    that this is one of his reasons to link the flame (fix the time
    distortion/sustain his immortality) more to come on that……. However, the 2
    branches we cut right before we take care of the bug in the bed of chaos are
    likely (it’s been speculated before, I didn’t come up with this) 2 of the chaos
    daughters. I believe they (this is the part I came up with) are there for the very
    reason Qualaana says her mother failed.
    They sacrificed themselves to control

    what their mother had become..which was not…. The Bed of Chaos… I’ll talk about
    this at the end….


    4.
    We defeat the Bed
    of Chaos, but do we ever see this Flame of Chaos? The bonfire that pops when
    you defeat the bed looks like a normal bonfire to me…. Is the Chaos flame
    located somewhere else? However…. Even the “First Flame” in the Kiln looks like
    a normal bonfire so…….Again, I’ll talk about this at the end….


    5.
    I think this line supports
    what I was saying above about the Witches reasoning to recreate the first flame
    (see above). However, like anything in this game, I know this line doesn’t
    prove anything… I could try and bend it to support anything I claim… sooo with
    that said take it with a grain of salt =)

    Now let’s
    look at some Pyromancy =D



    I specifically
    wanted to talk about Undead Rapport because I see Shkar always fighting people
    about “undead” being alive. And I’ve never argued that, undead is just a name
    that people with the darksign are given meaning they are without true death.
    But, this item description supports exactly what he’s saying…..



    Undead Rapport:



    Advanced pyromancy of Quelana of Izalith.
    Charm Undead and gain temporary allies.


    The living are lured by flame, and this
    relationship is part and parcel to the art of
    pyromancy. Can be used by either gender.


    It clearly says “Charm the Undead” and in the line right
    underneath it, it states “the LIVING are lured by flame”. I think that pretty
    much sums it up lol.


    Here is where things get a little tricky…. So we just said..
    “the living are lured by flame” and because of this we were saying
    Undead=living yadda yadda… but read this!


    Fireball:



    Standard pyromancy of the Great Swamp.
    Hurl fireball.



    The fire damage caused by fireballs makes
    them effective against corporeal beasts and

    Undead, who by nature fear flame.


    So wait? What? They
    are lured by the flame or they fear it?? Which is it man!?!?! I think what they
    mean here is…. They fear the flame when it is used as a weapon, the power is
    used against them..,however; they are lured by this same power if they believe
    they can wield it.



    Next let’s
    look at the upgraded pyromancy glove….



    Upgraded Pyromancy Glove:



    Pyromancy flame drawing upon the latent power
    of Quelana of Izalith, mother of pyromancy.

    For the pyromancer, a flame is a precious
    thing indeed, to be nurtured, often for an
    entire lifetime. When the flame is shared, it
    creates an eternal bond between the parties.


    So Quelana created
    Pyromancy… it says here she’s the “mother” of it…. Strangely enough she calls
    the Witch of Izalith her “mother”. Hmmmmmm…. Let’s look at the Lords Soul
    Description really quick….



    Bed of Chaos Lord’s Soul:



    Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother
    of all demons. This Lord Soul was found

    at the dawn of the Age of Fire.


    The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate
    the First Flame from a soul, but instead

    created a distorted being of chaos and fire.
    Its power formed a bed of life which would
    become the source of all demons, and is more
    than enough to satiate the Lordvessel.


    So from this
    description, it pretty much tells us that… the Witch of Izalith is not the Bed
    of Chaos… She is the Bed of Life from which demons were born…..Yes she’s that
    big *** distorted tree looking creature.. but… that’s not the Bed of Chaos
    either… It’s that bug… The bug is the Chaos Flame, the bug is the distorted
    being of chaos and fire. From what it looks like the bug is the physical
    manifestation of her Lord’s Soul…. This was the product of her attempt to
    recreate the First Flame… The item description is kinda confusing but bear with
    me and let’s pick it apart….



    1.
    The Lord’s Soul is the Soul of the Bed of
    Chaos…and the Bed of Chaos is the mother of all demons… ok we get that….


    2.
    It also says the Lord Soul was found at the dawn
    of the Age of Fire, but it does not specifically say by whom. Why not? Because
    we already know? Let’s keep reading…


    3.
    The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the
    First Flame from a soul, but
    instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire.


    4.
    Its

    power
    (meaning the power of the being of chaos and fire The Chaos
    Flame, The Bed of Chaos, the physical manifestation of the Lords Soul) formed a bed of life which would become the source of
    all demons.


    So what do we know about the Dark Souls universe. That they
    love the Yin and Yang idea… So if the Bed of Chaos was created then of course a
    Bed of Life would also be created. The Witch of Izalith was that Bed of Life,
    hence; it’s not until we kill the bug hiding within the Bed of Life does the
    Bed of Chaos die. So because the Bed of Chaos created the Bed of Life, it’s power would be seen as the source, however; the bed of life would be seen the mother of all demons because she is the point from where they all originate.




    That’s just my analysis feel free to pick it apart and enjoy the mass speculation =)


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:32 pm

    The Bed of Chaos is a Bed of Life.
    The First Flame is a bed of life too. It created all life.
    The Flame of Chaos also created life; but life already existed, and so it distorted the already existing life; that's why people call this Bed of Life; the Bed of Chaos.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by FattyOfDoom on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:20 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:Except the BoC's soul isn't what is needed to satiate the Lordvessal; the LORD'S SOULS are required. As for why we only get one soul for the Four Kings, that's because the together only had part of a Lord's Soul. Actually, that description sounds more like the BoC IS the Witch of Izalith. Between the two, there is only one Lord's soul; therefore, if that soul (the Lord's Soul that we gain by killing the BoC) is the soul of both of them, they must be the same being.
    The Lord Soul can be broken and given to others, maybe the witch gave it to her fetus before she died....?


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Acarnatia on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:27 pm

    The first flame created souls, not life. The dragons definitely existed before the First Flame, and the intro says "Then, from the Dark, they came, and found the souls of Lords within the Flame." Life existed outside of Fire and found Fire.


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:42 pm

    Arcanatia, you are a little lost. lol

    Miyazaki stated dragons aren't alive. They are kinda like part of nature. Soulless.

    Now for all your other statements, I have this:


    But then there was FIRE... Life and Death... and of course Light and Dark.

    You are mixing Light and Fire as the same thing. heh


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    Re: a horrific realization

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:06 pm

    Wow. I never realized... :shock:

    "I enter the entrance to the start of the beginning of the Bed of Chaos.
    I am nervous...tense...STIFF as a board.

    I am full of excitement, but yet nervous like a school boy. The tension builds.....and builds.....and then, THERE I AM!!! I slide deeeep into the hole of no return! Its too late now. A part of me wants to turn back, but the excitement is too much for me to handle.

    I could have said no before, but now that I have thrust myself into the grand and glorious shaft of euphoric bliss I continue forth! Like an Animaaal I slide back and forth and back and forth and back and forth....

    Why? I know not. I know my pleasure will most likely be temporary...but yet I go on.
    It's as if instinct itself has taken over. Evil Fex

    To the end I come and...AND....AND THEN I..."


    ...I dont remember what happens after. :bom:


    Last edited by Animaaal on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : shpelling)

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    Re: a horrific realization

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