Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

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    Shindori
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    Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Shindori on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:28 pm

    I'm a big fan of the Souls series.. but I have to admit... Demon's Souls is much more my style. The atmosphere, the way everything is designed, the way it plays... honestly, Dark Souls feels like Demon's souls on easy mode. Demon's souls, to me, feels like it offers more variety. The tendency system is great, and the PVP is beautiful.. so fast paced and the variety of combinations. The fact that there is no poise offers so much more of a challenge, oh my god..

    So what's your opinions? Also, I'll be in Anor Londo, SL30 NG+ on PC, name's ShindoriH.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Hue on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:49 pm

    posts like this make me worry about Dark Souls 2's "accessibility"


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by WandererReece on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:54 pm

    Shindori wrote:Honestly, Dark Souls feels like Demon's souls on easy mode.

    That's only if you exploit the AI. Dark Souls is a little harder in my opinion.

    Demon's Souls was easier:

    There were 3 weapons that could go through shields.

    The Northern Regalia had an AR of 500 at minimun stats if you were pure black or pure white.

    The Meat Cleaver's stat bonuses were S S - A, and it could be buffed.

    Blueblood Sword was one of the best weapons despite low stat bonuses and a stat requirement of 18 in everything. (Seriously, it's powerful especially if you buff it.)

    The Lave Bow was definitely the best bow. The fire made it a good anti-archer weapon.

    Second Chance was so OP.

    Health regeneration could be OP because it's possible to get up to 4 HP regeneraton effects at the same time.

    The mana system made magic more powerful.

    Grass was plentiful, so healing wasn't a problem.

    The multiplay ranking system was abused. Good players got bad ratings. That's why it wasn't put in Dark Souls.

    Dark Souls fixed all of that. It also made the combat better by adding plunging attacks, kicks, great curved swords, whips, lightning, offensive miracles, poise, and mid roll.

    Although there were a couple steps backwards:

    Shooting enemies from far away made them stand there like idiots. This was impossible in Demons' Souls even with the theif's ring.

    It's possible to attack and be attacked through walls mostly in Anor Londo and Sen's Fortress. I've never had this problem in Demon's Souls.

    Stamina regeneration is now OP like the HP regeneration in Demon's Souls.

    The bottomless box isn't as good as Stockpile Thomas. The box sorts things based on type (Ex: weapon, armor, exc.). Thomas sorted things based on subtype (Ex: axe, helment, ect.).Thomas made it a lot easier to find the crap you were looking for.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by e82 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:35 pm

    Demon's Souls wins out by a small margin for me, but both are pretty close.

    I think Demon's Souls has a little more depth to it when it comes to weapon upgrades, world/character tendency, etc.

    I think that for the average person, Demon’s Souls will be the harder game. Sure, you can pull off some very OP builds, get some crazy items and exploit the game in some interesting ways – but it takes quite a bit of time with the game to get that level of knowledge to do so. If you are trying to do say, a ‘non-abusive OP run’, or a ‘new player to the game’ run – Demon’s Souls is harder.

    The weapon upgrade system is a little more complex, it’s possible to mess drops needed for upgrades until the next NG+, armor is less interesting and found it didn’t matter as much, but not in an ‘easier’ way and there were more times where I felt a little ‘stumped’ in Demon’s Souls than Dark Souls in terms of what to do next / how to progress / etc.

    There are a few levels in Demon’s Souls that really stand out to me – I think Boletaria is an amazing level. I especially love 1-1, and 1-3. Tower of Latria is probably my favorite level in any video game, and I’ve often rolled up a new character just to run through that level again. For me, there were also seemed to be a little bit of a richer atmosphere with the game.

    Also, there is something about the movement / combat that feels a little tighter/lighter/more responsive than Dark Souls, although the ‘better or not’ would largely be a matter of opinion – but I prefer the feel of it.

    That said, Dark Souls does have quite a few stand out moments, but also has a few let downs. I like the Estus/Atunement system – limiting the number of heals / spells in combat does make you think a little more instead of ‘farm 100s of healing/mana items’. I also think that Sens Fortress, Painted World and Blighttown are excellent levels. I think the Undead Burg / Parish / Lower Burg is a great progression of level design but doesn’t quite live up to Boletaria.

    I love the open-interconnected world/nature of the game, prefer it over the nexus. That said, it starts to fall apart in the later half of the game and turns into more ‘run a straight path, bonfire warp back out’ and I also think that Demon’s Ruins / Lost Izalith felt like a wasted opportunity.

    I’m a little bit 50/50 on how I feel about the weapon upgrades – on one hand I like that the material system for it was simplified a little bit, but wish there was still a little more depth / options to play around with.

    Both games have a few pro’s/con’s that I could nitpick about – but in terms of the one I prefer most, Demon’s Souls edges out by a little bit.
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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Seignar on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:57 pm

    Dark Souls feels like Demon's souls on easy mode.
    What makes you say that? Weapons of all kinds had quick, absurd move sets. Second Chance was broken. Stealth was broken. Healing was broken. The game had select few areas where difficult was insane, but overall, it was easier for a beginner to win, than in Dark Souls, because Boss items were not rare since there merchants were gathered in 1 place and they would immediately inform you of what you could gain.

    Warding was insane as well, it was Iron Flesh without drawbacks and could be cast multiple times. All it took to get was beating the "second boss" which is as easy as saving Laurentius. Thief's Ring could be found the first level and any veteran can agree that it eliminated 90% of all dangerous encounters.

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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Hyena on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:59 pm

    Demon's Souls was easier for me
    I also feel the lore in Dark Souls was so much deeper and more developed.
    Dark Souls' lore was very Lovecraftian... Which is badass

    But yeah, did you play pre-patch Dark Souls?
    Easy Mode my ***


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Hyena on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:00 pm

    Seignar wrote:
    Dark Souls feels like Demon's souls on easy mode.
    What makes you say that? Weapons of all kinds had quick, absurd move sets. Second Chance was broken. Stealth was broken. Healing was broken. The game had select few areas where difficult was insane, but overall, it was easier for a beginner to win, than in Dark Souls, because Boss items were not rare since there merchants were gathered in 1 place and they would immediately inform you of what you could gain.

    Warding was insane as well, it was Iron Flesh without drawbacks and could be cast multiple times. All it took to get was beating the "second boss" which is as easy as saving Laurentius. Thief's Ring could be found the first level and any veteran can agree that it eliminated 90% of all dangerous encounters.

    This pretty much hits the nail on the head


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Jester's Tears on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:53 pm

    WandererReece wrote:
    Shindori wrote:Honestly, Dark Souls feels like Demon's souls on easy mode.

    That's only if you exploit the AI. Dark Souls is a little harder in my opinion.

    Demon's Souls was easier:

    There were 3 weapons that could go through shields.

    The Northern Regalia had an AR of 500 at minimun stats if you were pure black or pure white.

    The Meat Cleaver's stat bonuses were S S - A, and it could be buffed.

    Blueblood Sword was one of the best weapons despite low stat bonuses and a stat requirement of 18 in everything. (Seriously, it's powerful especially if you buff it.)

    The Lave Bow was definitely the best bow. The fire made it a good anti-archer weapon.

    Second Chance was so OP.

    Health regeneration could be OP because it's possible to get up to 4 HP regeneraton effects at the same time.

    The mana system made magic more powerful.

    Grass was plentiful, so healing wasn't a problem.

    The multiplay ranking system was abused. Good players got bad ratings. That's why it wasn't put in Dark Souls.

    Dark Souls fixed all of that. It also made the combat better by adding plunging attacks, kicks, great curved swords, whips, lightning, offensive miracles, poise, and mid roll.

    Although there were a couple steps backwards:

    Shooting enemies from far away made them stand there like idiots. This was impossible in Demons' Souls even with the theif's ring.

    It's possible to attack and be attacked through walls mostly in Anor Londo and Sen's Fortress. I've never had this problem in Demon's Souls.

    Stamina regeneration is now OP like the HP regeneration in Demon's Souls.

    The bottomless box isn't as good as Stockpile Thomas. The box sorts things based on type (Ex: weapon, armor, exc.). Thomas sorted things based on subtype (Ex: axe, helment, ect.).Thomas made it a lot easier to find the crap you were looking for.


    ...I'm just gonna leave this here (づ◕_◕)づ :


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by WandererReece on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:57 pm

    e82 wrote:I’m a little bit 50/50 on how I feel about the weapon upgrades – on one hand I like that the material system for it was simplified a little bit, but wish there was still a little more depth / options to play around with.

    I love Dark Souls weapon upgrade system, because Demon's Souls weapon upgrade system was so complex.

    You need so many shards, large shards, chunks, and pures. You needed all 4 for the last one. Most weapons need one pure, but some needed 2 pures.

    Also, diffrent weapons needed diffrent levels to get the boss soul. Broken Sword had to be +0. An axe had to be +5. A bow had to be +7. That made it hard to remember how to get the boss soul on the weapon. Also, not all upgrades were available for all weapons. (Ex: Fire can't be put on a curved sword.)

    In Dark Souls all weapons need to be +10 to get a soul, so that simplified things a bit. You also only need one size of titanite at a time, which made it easier to upgrade stuff. You could also put any upgrade on a weapon. There may be a few less choices, but at least they simplified it.

    Seignar wrote:Thief's Ring could be found the first level.

    That's true, but it's a little hidden. I missed it the first time I went through the area. I didn't know it was there till my roomate told me.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Shindori on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:02 pm

    xD Jeez, I got exactly what I asked for, discussion.. Well first off, I did play prepatch dark souls, which in my opinion was so much better. the patches took out so much of the challenge... and as for why I think it's harder.. well, combine the insanity and aggressiveness of the monsters with the movesets of weapons and to that add the fact of no poise and that magic was so easy to use, that getting through a level alive was a task all its own. yes, they were exploits, but hey, only babies use those. Only one I really used was the maneater exploit cuz *** those guys. Aside from that, the PVP was amazing, and offered so much more of a challenge because of those things mentioned, the healing buffs, weapon buffs and so on. Sure, you can make some great quick pvp on dark, but really, whats so fun about that? I like a fight to last ages.

    Summed up, to me Demon's souls is to Bushido Blade as Dark souls is to Mortal Kombat. Demon souls PVP could take from one minute to one hour, as where dark souls it all depends on how much you want to annoy your opponent. Idk if i worded it right or wrong but yeah..


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by twilightwarwolf on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:50 pm

    this is rather difficult as both were very well done.

    For Demon Souls:
    i felt that in demons souls you had a **** load of op enemies like the maneaters they made my blood boil with anger as did other bosses but i felt that each boss battle ment more like astrea i felt so bad for killing her. now vinland plz he was an *** but astrea i felt it was just wrong especially since she just wanted to help the little freaks. and the weapons in my opinion had more emphasis on looks and power in the right area's not to mention boss weapons were still on par with most weapons unlike dark souls. i also felt spells were more... realistic in a sense and that you had options about if you wanted to do this at the expense of this so a lot more thinking as well the way the spells had their slots and the miricles have theirs. And finally the weapon paths i miss having SO many options like bleed poison and crit for example at the expense of attack power in some cases.

    Dark Souls: i love the story line. cant say that enough its AMAZING especially the beginning movie part. the bosses were more balanced and that made it fun while still giving that challenging aspect that one expects from a boss. i liked that there is WAY mor armour and weapons though i feel like boss weapons kinda got a lil under powered in some cases. and the pvp kinda lost some of that more balanced and fun fighting atmoshere as well as made bs's WAY too easy to get with or without lag, though i admit im not amazing at pvp but damn when im in front of my opponent or to the side of them and they get a bs i call bull. I like the loss of world tendency as i got screwed on so many accounts of that or that it would chane despite my wants and how easily it was lost but so hard to get back. the magic additions of pyromancy along with miricle attacks and spells supports made me very happy especially how an area does better with certain types versus another place with others. i also like the option to go to area's not required to go to and enjoy everything about it and i love how everywhere is connected so to speak. and finally i loved the covanants idea with a few to choose from with various bonuses and qualities that made each unique and to everyone' liking.

    i guess simply put demon souls for pvp and dark souls for reg gameplay


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Seignar on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:58 pm

    Admittedly, PVP in Demon Souls was better because at least you can dodge Backstabs, although lag was bad, which kind of forbid the use of anti-magic miracles. Specialized builds were really specialized and where greatly different from the others; overall, much more diversity than Dark Souls, although Dark Souls attempted balance.

    Pre-patch Dark Souls was harder in the wrong ways. There was no fun in the fact that crossing the Hellkite Dragon was a matter of luck as he could incinerate you before you were even halfway across. The first level had a drastic difficulty spike just after the bonfire because those 3 firebombs hollow would come down and spam firebombs while you had 3 melee on top of you! It was too much for a mere beginner to attempt, although doable.

    Let's not even talk about curses. I never got in that situation, but the issue was insane. If you got cursed, you were being forced to travel to an end-game area, with half of your HP. Lost Izalith, oh Lost Izalith. We won't discuss it. I'm glad they also did nerfs to our equipment. The "top-elite weapons" were getting ridicules.

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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Argetlam350 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:46 am

    I found Dark Souls harder but really the fact of which game is harder is more based on opinion and which game you played first I've found out a lot. I mean a great deal of players who find Demon's Souls harder then Dark Souls played Demon's Souls first, while those who played Dark Souls first found Demon's Souls easier. Really either or is easier because we the players are more experienced at the game so whichever we played second is found easier because we know what to expect from it. That's how I view it.
    But in the end ignoring the opinion on which game was harder, I'd still go with Dark Souls over Demon's Souls. Demon's Souls does have a better atmosphere but it is way easier to exploit even without the Stockpile Thomas glitch. I can collect a ton of grasses that I can spam in any fight same with mana. The carry weight limit is annoying rather then realistic since you have to make a ton of trips back and forth between the Nexus and whatever world you are on so you can grab everything you need from that level. Then the World Tendancy. Some like the World Tendancy stuff but I personally didn't like it, it's just way to easy to manipulate and make them either black or white. Besides the little special events for Pure White or Pure Black, there was no point for World Tendancy. That's just my opinion.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:29 am

    I played Demon Souls after Dark Souls and I thought it was comparatively a cakewalk. It was still harder than your average game, but not one boss gave me a hard time, and I didn't have trouble getting through any of the levels. Coming from Dark Souls was a huge advantage, but still, no doubt the tolerance for mistakes is much much higher. Heck, with all the hours I've put into Dark Souls, there are still some sections that give me a sweaty palm good time. Four Kings on NG+, Manus without a posse, Kalameet, Lautrecs gank session. Sure I can handle all this situations confidently, but they still aren't always a certainty. Contrariwise, on the initial blind play through of Demon Souls I didn't get hung up once, and I can still roll through the game without having to worry about any specific point.

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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by WandererReece on Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:05 pm

    Argetlam350 wrote:I mean a great deal of players who find Demon's Souls harder then Dark Souls played Demon's Souls first, while those who played Dark Souls first found Demon's Souls easier.

    I played Demons' Souls first, and I still think Demons' Souls was easier.

    Demon's Souls does have a better atmosphere but it is way easier to exploit even without the Stockpile Thomas glitch.

    That's true, but in Demons' Souls it's almost impossible to go through a whole area without getting attacked. In Dark Souls it's really easy to do that. All you need is a Black Bow, Hawk Ring, and Poison Arrows. Dark Souls can also be easily exploited.

    In Demons' Souls you could shoot someone to avoid a melee fight, but they would chase you. If you didn't have the Theif's Ring, then they would chase you a little more. Dark Souls enemies were too dumb to chase you if you were far enough away.

    At least Demons' Souls tried to make you fight.

    Demons' Souls did have the Poison Cloud tactic that was similar to the Poison Arrow tactic, but it only worked on red phantom enemies. If it was used on a normal enemy, then that enemy would attack you and chase you until it lost sight of you.

    Point is both games are easily exploited. Demons' Souls made you invulnerable, but Dark Souls made you not get attacked.

    The carry weight limit is annoying rather then realistic since you have to make a ton of trips back and forth between the Nexus and whatever world you are on so you can grab everything you need from that level.

    I never had to make a ton of trips back to the Nexus. I was always able to pick up everything in the entire level without returning to the nexus. If I couldn't pick something up, then I just equiped the Ring of Herculian Strength and kept going.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Argetlam350 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:24 am

    Well I guess you are one of the few who find Demon's Souls easier and played it before Dark Souls. Most other players I've talked to and friends that play the series who started on Demon's Souls, tend to say they find it harder then Dark Souls and vice versa. Not all but most do from my experience.

    I get what you mean but I still find Demon's Souls is easier to exploit. Especially some of the boss fights. Flamelurker and Maneaters are probably two of the hardest bosses in Demon's Souls yet they both are easily exploitable. Flamelurker I discovered by accident and then a friend told me about the Maneasters trick which is cheap as ****. The exploits that you can pull off in Demon's Souls far surpass the number of fights you can dodge in Dark Souls, in my opinion.
    I guess you put more into endurance then I did then since I had issues with carrying things in Demon's Souls. I had to make trip after trip to carrying items just because it was full (usually weapon upgrade crud took up most of the weight, I somehow found a lot on my first playthrough). Even the ring of Herculian Strength didn't help much. Picking up the Tower Knight Shield took a ton of strategic item dropping before I could pick that up off the ground.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by User1 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:28 am

    I always found the Maneaters quite easy. That maybe because I had a Large Sword of Moonlight, at 26 faith, but I agree on the Flamelurker being hard. That fight was just hell.
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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by WandererReece on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:38 am

    Argetlam350 wrote:I guess you put more into endurance then I did then since I had issues with carrying things in Demon's Souls. I had to make trip after trip to carrying items just because it was full. Even the ring of Herculian Strength didn't help much.

    Item burden is increased by vitality, not endurance.

    Ring of Hurculian Strength helped me a lot. There were a few times I couldn't carry anymore stuff, but I could equip that ring and be able to carry everything else in that level. That's why I always carried it. However, I wore light clothing and gave all my junk to Thomas after each level.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Argetlam350 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:48 am

    WandererReece wrote:
    Argetlam350 wrote:I guess you put more into endurance then I did then since I had issues with carrying things in Demon's Souls. I had to make trip after trip to carrying items just because it was full. Even the ring of Herculian Strength didn't help much.

    Item burden is increased by vitality, not endurance.

    Ring of Hurculian Strength helped me a lot. There were a few times I couldn't carry anymore stuff, but I could equip that ring and be able to carry everything else in that level. That's why I always carried it. However, I wore light clothing and gave all my junk to Thomas after each level.
    My bad, it's been awhile since I played Demon's Souls, or at least leveled up in it so I forgot which one increases carrying weight.
    Well I guess that could of made a difference, as a knight I usually wore some heavy armor which took a good chunk of my carrying weight. Plus a heavy weapon.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by GrinTwist on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:21 pm

    I think Demon's Souls is the harder game but I can't really back it up with much. I've just put so many hours into Dark Soul's PVE and PVP that it's kind of like a bad joke, while in Demon's Souls I barely clock over 100 hours in the game.

    However I will say farming and upgrading in Demon's Souls is just aggravating.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by WandererReece on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:29 pm

    GrinTwist wrote:However I will say farming and upgrading in Demon's Souls is just aggravating.

    I'll admit that part is a lot harder.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:53 pm

    All the Demon's Souls elite before Dark Souls:

    "We want more balanced weapons and shields"

    "We want a more in depth invading and co-op system"

    "We want armor to matter"

    "We want bosses that are not so easily glitched"

    Demon's Souls community recieves all of the above:

    "We want Demon's Souls back"

    Look Skyward

    Dark Souls is better in almost every way imo.
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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Onion Knight on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:43 pm

    I enjoyed playing Demon's Souls online, still do from time to time. Great people on those European servers.

    In contrast to this; I hated playing Dark Souls online.

    Also for game features Demon's has going for it:
    -Better atmosphere and level design.
    -Online features that actually worked on release, not several patches and months later.
    -No patches pandering constantly to the minority PvP community.
    -A more PvE centered experience. (Which I prefer.)
    -A more interesting and involved story.
    -Much more variety in the upgrade system.
    -No drastic framerate drops.
    -The Nexus.

    It's also amusing the amount of characters and bosses (that aren't refrences) they recycled from Demon's Souls.

    There's a reason I spent thousands of hours in Demon's Souls but barely completed Dark Souls twice.


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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Animaaal on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:44 pm

    I thought the patches showed dedication to the fans. Demon's Souls could've benefitted from a patch. I don't think Demon's Souls was as finished as people might think.

    I like the level designs just fine. As I did in Demon's Souls. Both are brilliant.

    I love the story. It's %$#&ing awesome.

    The fighting mechanics are deep in both games and function beautifully.

    I thought Demon's Souls and Dark Souls suffer from lag in almost the exact same way. It has hindered both games but ruined neither.

    The only thing I think someone who played both games chronologically might say is that the "Summon you friends" slogan at the beginning is a big effin lol. They fixed it for the most part, but yes, it was obviously easier to summon specific people in Demon's Souls.

    In the end I believe it is mostly nastalgia that benefits Demon's Souls from this point of view. No landscape, no enemies, no stories are going to compare after your cherry has been so violently popped. :shock:

    I think a lot of Demon's Souls vets would change their minds if they could let go of memories and judge objectively. I think they would arise to the conclusion that Dark Souls was an upgrade that got even better with age. It really has nothing to do with which game a person likes more.

    I 4 1 say, "Bravo FROM" Bow




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    Re: Dark Souls or Demon's Souls?

    Post by Onion Knight on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:55 pm

    Did you play Dark Souls at console launch? Broken and non-functioning online, glitched textures and unplayable sections such as Blightown due to a below 5 fps frame rate.

    Demon's Souls incomplete? No, just not as rushed out the door and longer in its development cycle.

    You criticise those who prefer Demon's Souls for rose tinted nostalgia and not judging objectively, yet your own love of Dark Souls has left yourself in that very situation.

    Deal with the fact that people do, such as myself prefer Demon's Souls over Dark Souls.


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