What do you want out of the PS4?

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    Hatsune Miku
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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:13 pm

    Who's the dude that can move to the beat?
    Longshot wrote:
    Vinyl Scratch wrote:
    Longshot wrote:less trophies or none altogether. maybe ability to opt out/turn off.
    I actually like the idea of trophies.
    maybe a guideline for devs making trophies then. a player shouldn't have to grind for hours/days to fulfill a retarded requirement for a trophy.

    i.e. - Demon's Souls: Trophy of Sharpness; Black Ops: trophy you get for shooting a zombie with a crossbow, etc.
    I have a ton of free time on my hands everyday, so it's not a problem for me.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by passivefamiliar on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:52 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:If there's not backwards compatibility this time I'm going to be unhappy. Complete backwards compatibility would be nice, but I'd be happy with PS3 compatibility. I'm also hoping they transfer our PS3 accounts as they are. Not only would it be nice to see our trophy stats transferred, but I'd like to see my PSN purchases carried over.

    This. Trophies shouldnt be an issue, but honestly that doesnt swing me. Trophies are just tag on.

    I think it NEEDS to let me play ps3 games on it. It should go ahead and be full backwards all the way to ps1 games but we all know better,

    The very minimum i'll accept is if it lets me play digital games i've purchased. I preorder games from the PS store, as much for my convenience as for to support sony instead of gamestop. I coudl preorder from almost any other store and get better bonus content. But i dont. And if sony isnt willing to be supportive of the online games...im not buying it.

    I just got my ps3...not even 3 years ago. I was happy with my ps2 that long. (Im not a big gamer, i dont need the latest greatest new hotness) i just need something to kill the time. So if ps4 doesnt at least support my digital library i'll buy up some ps3 games i've put off buying and stock up on ps3 games and ride it out.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:59 pm

    Animaaal wrote:Lag reduction as compared to the ps3, and I mean a noticeable reduction.

    It ruined DCUO and some of DkS imo.

    Hardware can't fix lag. Lag is due to two things

    1) Connection speed
    2) Distance between players

    1 is controlled by your ISP
    2 is can only be controlled by region locking


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:27 pm

    passivefamiliar wrote:
    PlasticandRage wrote:If there's not backwards compatibility this time I'm going to be unhappy. Complete backwards compatibility would be nice, but I'd be happy with PS3 compatibility. I'm also hoping they transfer our PS3 accounts as they are. Not only would it be nice to see our trophy stats transferred, but I'd like to see my PSN purchases carried over.

    This. Trophies shouldnt be an issue, but honestly that doesnt swing me. Trophies are just tag on.

    I think it NEEDS to let me play ps3 games on it. It should go ahead and be full backwards all the way to ps1 games but we all know better,

    The very minimum i'll accept is if it lets me play digital games i've purchased. I preorder games from the PS store, as much for my convenience as for to support sony instead of gamestop. I coudl preorder from almost any other store and get better bonus content. But i dont. And if sony isnt willing to be supportive of the online games...im not buying it.

    I just got my ps3...not even 3 years ago. I was happy with my ps2 that long. (Im not a big gamer, i dont need the latest greatest new hotness) i just need something to kill the time. So if ps4 doesnt at least support my digital library i'll buy up some ps3 games i've put off buying and stock up on ps3 games and ride it out.

    I'll play devil's advocate on this one...

    If the PS4 had full BC like my original PS3 this is how they add up...

    PS4 PS3
    Blu ray Blu ray
    PS3 games PS3 games
    PS2 games PS2 games
    PS1 games PS1 games
    PSN games PSN games
    PS4 games

    So... given this, why would anyone run out to replace the PS3 w/ a PS4 w/out having good PS4 games? It doesn't make any sense. If it doesn't make sense to replace your PS3 w/ a PS4 until good games come out for the PS4, why would it make sense to increase the cost of the PS4 when what will sell the system are the good new games?

    Also, let's not forget how much the PS3 got initially lambasted for putting out a $600 system and eventually scrapped BC to lower the price, which sold off much faster than the BC ones.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:26 pm

    aceluby wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:Lag reduction as compared to the ps3, and I mean a noticeable reduction.

    It ruined DCUO and some of DkS imo.

    Hardware can't fix lag. Lag is due to two things

    1) Connection speed
    2) Distance between players

    1 is controlled by your ISP
    2 is can only be controlled by region locking

    Well thanks I guess. Tell that to my ps2 lol. Read post #17 please.
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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:09 pm

    Animaaal wrote:
    aceluby wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:Lag reduction as compared to the ps3, and I mean a noticeable reduction.

    It ruined DCUO and some of DkS imo.

    Hardware can't fix lag. Lag is due to two things

    1) Connection speed
    2) Distance between players

    1 is controlled by your ISP
    2 is can only be controlled by region locking

    Well thanks I guess. Tell that to my ps2 lol. Read post #17 please.

    I read it. Lag is caused by connection speed and distance between players. The only time hardware would fix lag is if there was too much data coming too quickly for the hardware to process it. If you aren't even getting T1 speeds then this is impossible...


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:21 pm

    I think what Animaaal is saying is that he hopes developers plan online aspects of games to use as little data as necessary to achieve the desired gameplay.

    EDIT: I just looked through release info again and confirmed what I thought I read before. Sony is hoping that Gaikai will allow them a full release of the Playstation library for backwards compatability. The biggest drawback is you might have to purchase old games again. I could also see them using a subscription model as well. From what I've seen of streaming games and emulation I don't think Sony is overreaching a bit. All that needs to be seen is if they actually man up and get it done.

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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:51 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:I think what Animaaal is saying is that he hopes developers plan online aspects of games to use as little data as necessary to achieve the desired gameplay.

    EDIT: I just looked through release info again and confirmed what I thought I read before. Sony is hoping that Gaikai will allow them a full release of the Playstation library for backwards compatability. The biggest drawback is you might have to purchase old games again. I could also see them using a subscription model as well. From what I've seen of streaming games and emulation I don't think Sony is overreaching a bit. All that needs to be seen is if they actually man up and get it done.

    That may be true, but again, it's not a hardware issue, but a development issue.

    Regarding BC and purchased PSN games, there is no confirmation if or how they will implement it, though emulation will probably be the cheapest way. I'll reserve my judgement as far a streaming quality when I see it. The US internet architecture is terrible and not going to be getting better anytime soon, so my hopes are not high.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by EeAyEss on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:56 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:I also like trophies. Here the Cheat. Have a trophy

    You would totally have my like if it counted and if I hadn't given one out already.

    I would do it, I would do it 9 times.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:58 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:I also like trophies. Here the Cheat. Have a trophy

    You booted the game up, have a trophy!....

    Seriously? I liked it when sony didn't have trophies, showed people actuallly played games for fun, rather than xbox players who grind for G.. which is pretty embarrassing i gottas say


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:07 pm

    Backwards compatibility. big grin


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:16 pm

    aceluby wrote:....I read it. Lag is caused by connection speed and distance between players. The only time hardware would fix lag is if there was too much data coming too quickly for the hardware to process it. If you aren't even getting T1 speeds then this is impossible...

    I know. Thats why I said what I said. Its all about processing packets of information. The time necessary for this information to travel is almost non-existant. Combining that with the game units hardware capabilities is what produces the full realization of objective lag.

    Does time traveled by a packet of information create hiccups? Sure. However, the amount of data being pushed and therefore translated is what creates the more constant experience of in game lag. Developers push these limitations all the time for marketing purposes and increasing sales.

    I don't know why you're trying to critique me. Get your super nes online somehow and tell me hardware and software doesn't matter for example.

    I'm sorry, but I disagree. The lag you see on screen can be compensate for through hardware and software. Again, DCUO is the poster child for this principle.
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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:26 pm

    Trophies can serve other purposes though besides bragging. They can document progress for others to see as many are often story based or milestone based. Getting a plat often means a higher affinity for a game. Anyone looking at my profile would see that I spent a lot of time on the Souls games, Linger in Shadows and Flower (I think these are the only 100% games I have and two don't have plat). They would also see a less than stellar completion of FFXIII. They can act as a meta for games you enjoy to get better mileage out of. Not only the incentive of earning a trophy, but I always look though trophy lists for games and often find myself thinking, "Oh yeah, that does sound fun, let's try that."

    I gotta say I agree that grinding just for the trophies is crazy. I've tried that on a few games basically out of pride. Kinda like, if I don't have this trophy, it might look like I didn't get everything out of the game. I've gotten over that quickly though and now it's like, I could get that trophy.....but this new game will be more fun to play. See ya trophies!

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    EeAyEss, lol and thanks. I proudly display the entire Cheat Commandos line of action figures in my office at work along with set 1 of the other figurines.

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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:52 pm

    Animaaal wrote:However, the amount of data being pushed and therefore translated is what creates the more constant experience of in game lag.

    Almost. The piece your are missing is the reason why pushing so much data is causing the lag. It's because of bandwidth of the network and how far that data has to travel. Playing against a Japanese player makes it plainly evident that data travelling further causes more lag.

    The reason I won't let this go is because there's a lot of misconceptions as to what causes lag.

    As for your DCUO example, that's an example of bad online development and probably bad design, not bad hardware. The PS hardware can take in a gigabit of information through it's ethernet port, a T1 line provides 1.5 Mbits... 1/1000th of its capability. Lag is not a hardware issue, it's a network and distance issue, sometimes compounded by bad development.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:30 pm

    aceluby wrote:Almost. The piece your are missing is the reason why pushing so much data is causing the lag. It's because of bandwidth of the network and how far that data has to travel. Playing against a Japanese player makes it plainly evident that data travelling further causes more lag.

    The reason I won't let this go is because there's a lot of misconceptions as to what causes lag.

    As for your DCUO example, that's an example of bad online development and probably bad design, not bad hardware. The PS hardware can take in a gigabit of information through it's ethernet port, a T1 line provides 1.5 Mbits... 1/1000th of its capability. Lag is not a hardware issue, it's a network and distance issue, sometimes compounded by bad development.

    The amount of data pushed by the ps3 in Dark Souls is minimal at best. While that might give way to stating time traveled by information is responsible for lag, one must consider playing the PC version with the same scenario. I've also never said time traveled had nothing to do with it. If someone has a horrible connection, its obvious, we all know that.

    While I appreciate your sentiment, I am also tired of these discussions always reverting attention away from the video game product produced (with the reality of publishers intentions), as compared to an ethical way to produce a game concerning the consumers wants and desires.

    However discussing a developers ethics is a bit off topic.

    Better software, hardware, and responsible development of games regarding these aforementioned factors will and can reduce lag.

    If you're saying the ps4 cannot at all possibly be designed in a way that will reduce lag in online gaming, I still and always will disagree.

    As far a DCUO, the ps3 cannot handle the reality. That game shouldn't have been produced. It is an example of what I'd like to see less. Again, compare the PC version. You mistake me for having a misconception of lag when I don't.

    All I said in the beginning was I hope there is a noticable difference. Saying that is not possible is simply wrong.
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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:51 pm

    Guys, stop talking about lag. It's not even anything to do with why you'd want to get the new console, so please. Keep it to more relevant **** like favourite game series etc.

    How about series you guys think need a major reboot? We already know that infamous is getting a gameplay/story overhaul with a new character and powers, which looks pretty interesting.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:48 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Guys, stop talking about lag. It's not even anything to do with why you'd want to get the new console, so please. Keep it to more relevant **** like favourite game series etc.

    How about series you guys think need a major reboot? We already know that infamous is getting a gameplay/story overhaul with a new character and powers, which looks pretty interesting.

    Apparently it's why some people get a new console... :roll: lol

    Anyway, since that was like beating my head against a brick wall, I'll get back on track and apologize for the blood spatter...

    Things that are going to get me to buy a PS4... great NEW exclusives...

    I want new IPs, like they did w/ Uncharted and Demon's Souls...
    A GREAT new RPG will get me to buy one...
    A good platformer for the GF
    Solid integration w/ the vita might make me buy both, especially if games take advantage of it a la the WiiU
    A good simple shooter along the lines of the original Halo

    That's pretty much what I'm looking for. Not going to rush the jump unless the games come or if my PS3 happens to die after release.


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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:09 pm

    aceluby wrote:...Anyway, since that was like beating my head against a brick wall...

    Thats too bad.

    Again, I hope the objective appearance of lag is improved with the ps4...I think we all would.

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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

    Post by Longshot on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:39 pm

    dump the XMB. it's slow and not user friendly. not a bad concept, terrible execution.

    I want to be able to give nickname and tags to people who are on my friends list. This way I know who they are/what they play/what they mean to me. I make friends all the time on PS3 but within a week I have no I idea who plays what. Makes invites and stuff hard.

    ex) TypicalGamer1234 -> nickname: AwesomeSunBro tag: Dark Souls/Co-Op/Forum Friend

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    Re: What do you want out of the PS4?

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