Can Forest Hunters honestly be considered gankers?

Here's a little commentary on the subject, enjoy!

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFC2dEgZQc

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr-EwuXNm6M

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DboOrP-ue0E

Glad to see you're back. I agree with your commentary, but still believe we Forest Hunters can be considered gankers. The only difference is that it is enouraged by Alvina and Shiva.

and we can't deliberately summon a backup. We can wait for one. Or do what I love doing and get the help of my Skarekrow Tree Descendants (I gank gankers without remorse)

You can't gank a ganker because, by definition, they'll have back-up. You could, in theory, gank a quester trying to make his way to Sif. I have no qualms in doing the former, I don't ever do the latter, though one could.

What skare said about "deliberate summons" is the real sticking point. You can't gank on command but you could gank with enough patience and trial and error. Honestly, traditional ganking is just a much more efficient way to gank IMO.

Pendant, kill the phantom. Then lure the host. Gank a ganker.

I've also separated them (sometimes with blue help), then lured the host. I've gotten a host to jump in the little crevice leading to the bridge where he became wedged in, unable to move. Because of all the trees I made him aggro jumping in after him. That wasn't a gank. That probably qualified as a hate crime

^That's not really a gank though. That's 2 sides going in at equal strength and one side suffering a casualty and suffering the consequences for losing their battle support. Ganking, to me, suggests starting with an upper-hand of sorts.

Also, the "team" aspect of the FH covenant is strongly suggested. Not just through Shiva's dialogue but by the fact that if another Hunter kills a host, even if you're on the complete other side of the map, you'll still, in the eyes of the covenant, be given equal reward for the kill.

Fine, justify my actions then

Spoiler:

2 vs 1 is not gank imo... Just a matter of luck...
I am the grinder...

i see no difference between forest hunters and gankers.
Even in a 1 on 1, the hunters run to the npc´s. Seriously i fought today some pvp. And hell the Forest Hunters are bad as F***!

Ive summoned my friend yesterday, and we fought some invaders. Every time 1 on 1. (Except a hacker/modder, both with the gold tracer... poor modder haha!)
And we lost 2 times, first one was a huge mistake from my side and the second one... o.k. played badly from my side.
But we got a streak from about 40? With ease !!! Hell i hope some of the upper tier players invade my world.

All in one, Forest Hunters are mostly as bad as gankers and coward ! No respekt for even one of them!

Ganking is a subjective term and so whether they are or not is entirely subjective.
In my eyes the term should be used to fight anyone who will only attack when they have a friend or the upper hand. By that definition a lot of forest hunters are gankers even though they may only use the npc's.
Overall I believe this comes down to whether you think the term "Ganking" is situation dependent and in my eyes is isn't, so yes they are gankers.

Forest Hunters can be considered gankers. Getting jumped by multiple players at once.

Of course in the forest it is most likely 2v2 or even 3v2 hunters.

Who cares though, outside of a small percentage, forest hunters get wrecked without any help needed

Good vids, martyrs. Good vids.

I consider any 2v1 attempts as ganking (or more v 1). I'm not against Catbros teaming up though, just saying that I still consider it ganking.

Good videos though, watched first two parts earlier today

No we're not gankers. 2v1 does not make you a ganker. hanging out for hours in a place you don't belong with all your buddies and your best killing stuff on makes you a ganker. But you know what I don't care. I love the challenge of running in there and trying to kill the host before anyone else. Don't change a thing guys cause I'll be be in the Forest as much as I can doing more with less than you and certainly dying more with less than you. Sure I might loose my cool and run in naked and BS someone while rockin PW and RTSR every once and a while but whats a little dirt between us Chosen Undead?

When will part 3 be up? : )

hageshisa wrote:When will part 3 be up? : )

All three parts are up and ready. I'll add it to the post.

Gank= Group wank. Simple as that. Even mob luring with NPC's can still be considered gank.

Nice videos marty. Looks like you opened up a can of worms though. Hopefully we can stay on topic about your videos.

i don't host in the forest anymore, i always did it solo and invaders would either bs me when i bowed or wait for back up when i am clearly alone. and then theres the people who interupt the few 1v1's i could find.

Good call. The meta in the forest is different than anywhere else. If you are trying to host "honor duels", you best do it elsewhere. People don't go to the forest looking for an honorable duel anymore than people go to the moonpit looking to be ganked.

reim0027 wrote:Good call. The meta in the forest is different than anywhere else. If you are trying to host "honor duels", you best do it elsewhere. People don't go to the forest looking for an honorable duel anymore than people go to the moonpit looking to be ganked.

The irony of those two places being only few steps away from each toher.

I've always found it a little funny how in Dark Souls, ganking is a taboo that most people look down upon. Whereas in Defense of the Ancients, its the most common way for players to play and everyone enjoys ganks (except for the gankee whos usually a now underleveled carry). I guess this is kind of comparing apples to oranges due to the games being different in so many ways. In dota, ganking is usually the only tool you can use to prevent certain heroes from becoming unstoppable monsters who steamroll over you. Whereas in Dark Souls, ganking is more or less a bunch of (theoretically) equally powered players attack another equally powered player before they have a chance to do much.

On Topic: yes, forest hunters can and are gankers. Its your job to slaughter everyone who dares trespass in the forest, and its even encouraged to gang up on them so its a guaranteed kill, and you receive the loot. I think the main issue here is most newbs join the forest hunters as their first pvp covenant, get totally destroyed by completely unfair numbers, and this experience stays with them for the rest of the game. Some will vow never to gank another player, others will stop pvping, and then a few even spend most of their existence attempting to destroy these gankers.

What most players forget is that invaders are just as, if not more capable of ganking than hosts. A host may not have the ability to bring along summons due to low traffic or the ever present summoning failed, is already mostly into the level and a darkwraith has them trapped between mobs, or the darkwraith has already ensured no way to summon without eating a backstab or 3.

You can't really blame a host for summoning aid. It isn't looked down upon in any other area of the game, why should it be here? On the same token, you can't blame a Forest Hunter for waiting for backup. They've been ganked a lot and realize just how useful it is. Remember: only a fool tries to fight a fair match.

barrywilkins wrote:You can't really blame a host for summoning aid. It isn't looked down upon in any other area of the game, why should it be here?

Because it's not making story progress. The goal is to gank. If you invade in Lost Izalith and the host says, "Boy, this Bed of Chaos is really doing a number on me, let me summon somebody." And then you as an invader happen to invade these guys and get ganked by them then it's another story. This is a guy who was focused on his game and making progress in it, you invaded him and are an obstacle to his making progress, if you get ganked in that circumstance - it's completely understandable. You are not wanted in that world.

The difference is that the guys in the forest have no intention on going forward in their game. The invaders aren't an intrusion to them they are sought after. They are there because they want to have these uneven fights, not because they're struggling with the area and think they need a summon to help them get through it.

Because it's not making story progress. The goal is to gank. If
you invade in Lost Izalith and the host says, "Boy, this Bed of Chaos is
really doing a number on me, let me summon somebody." And then you as
an invader happen to invade these guys and get ganked by them then it's
another story. This is a guy who was focused on his game and making
progress in it, you invaded him and are an obstacle to his making
progress, if you get ganked in that circumstance - it's completely
understandable. You are not wanted in that world.

I don't see how that makes it any different. A gank is a gank, despite the circumstances. Besides, its pretty clear that From wanted the forest to be a major hub for pvp. There is a covenant made specifically to invade here with multiple spawn points. Its a large map with a lot of terrain to manipulate, but very few enemies are in your way if you're going to siff. You can even skip every enemy if you take the way via the Hydra or Join the Forest Hunters, which also allows you to summon a second phantom at the cost of having almost no pvp action. They wanted ganks to happen here. They wanted chaos, they wanted unfair matches, they wanted every fight to be a complete and utter slaughterfest. And its darned fun.

I invade there as a Darkwraith quite often, and also occasionally host. Lemme tell ya, the ganking happens on both sides. I can't tell ya how many times people tried to lure me into the forest hunter mobs, would tear my face off with a sunlight bladed falchion while i bowed, or waited in the ents for backup.

My point isn't that everyone should just go ahead and start only ganking other players. It's that the forest is a gankfest on both sides, and you'd be a fool to expect any different. Its how the area is structured, and I'd honestly lose what little drive I have left to play this game if it were changed.

I don't understand why people can't find "honor" 2 vs 2 duels in the forest as a host.

It's pretty simple, if your phantom jumps crystal him out.

If you have a 2-3 hour session there, the chances of "reinvasions" are pretty high somedays. The "reinvaders" will notice and back off 90% of the time, and sometimes even leave you stuff. I've been left more slabs from catbros than I've acquired in the game....ever.

When the arena came out I thought, "%$#@ YA!!! An easier way to 2vs2." I'm still bitter about that :x

I get screwed over sometimes but I never let it get to me. In the end I get what I want...action that is not the monotany of the 1vs1 no terrain yawn duels. Thats my opinion though.

I also think catbros are cooler than people give em credit for.

ON TOPIC: yes